Restaurant Service / Tipping Question

[FayeW]

Ok, I genuinely don't want to start a fight, but I see that other people have expressed their views, so I figured I would respond. I was a server for 5 years (at a non-chain restaurant if that matters) and I can tell you right now, it is one of the most difficult jobs I have ever held. I am now an attorney and I still stand by that original statement - being a server is a very demanding job. I can only imagine what it is like to be a server in WDW dealing with hot, cranky, demanding adults and children.



As to not caring what the hourly wage of a server is, seriously, think about going to work for 12+ hours in a day and earning less than $30. That is why servers are tipped. And trust me, you would not want to be a server for pleasure... please don't write any job off as easy or "pleasure-inducing" until you've done it yourself.

As an attorney, I am sure that you understand that you should not respond to something unless you've read all of the relevant materials. If you had read the entire thread you would have seen the post where I said I am a "former server, dining room supervisor and restaurant manager". I've worn all the hats. I liked being a waitress and I was pretty good at it, hence the promotions.

When I enter a restaurant to purchase a meal, the only contract I enter into is to pay for the meal which is provided to me. The wage of the employee who brings it to me is based on a contract negotiated between the employer and the employee and is irrelevant to me. If someone is unhappy with the wage they are offered to do a particular job, they are free to find more lucrative employment. If enough servers, bartenders, bellhops and housekeepers refused to do the job for the offered wage perhaps the employers would be forced to pay a wage that was more appropriate for the work required. As long as people are willing to accept that wage to do that job that is all that will be offered.

ETA: I see you did see my previous post, as you've quoted it in your response! Not sure how you could have quoted it without reading it!

 

[FayeW]

My comment is based on your words that "I could care less about the server's wage and a 30 dollar steak does not equal the merits of more money than a 10 dollar salad." I just thought it sounded a little cold.

Tipping the total bill amount is the cultural custom of America.

SO, in the nicest way I could (while laying the sarcasm on pretty thick) I was saying that it sounds cold and you need to accept our customs if you plan to visit.

I understand what the custom is; it is the same in Canada. I just happen to think the formula for determining an appropriate tip is stupid.

 

[Bellybee]

I agree with FayeW I do think tipping customs are sometimes stupid and also that it should not be down to the restaurant patron to ensure the server gets a fair wage.
I think that the restaurants that earn more than enough profit from us eating and drinking there should ensure a fair wage for their employees.
I have had many jobs earning the minimum wage in the UK which is the same as most waitresses get and I never got tips.
I can just imagine answering the phone to my customers and giving an exceptional phone call and then wanting a tip at the end of it, it just doesnt happen.

 

[PrincessMinnie28]

As an attorney, I am sure that you understand that you should not respond to something unless you've read all of the relevant materials. If you had read the entire thread you would have seen the post where I said I am a "former server, dining room supervisor and restaurant manager". I've worn all the hats. I liked being a waitress and I was pretty good at it, hence the promotions.

I did read your post. I would not have responded the way I did if I had not read it. I knew saying that I was an attorney was going to cause you to retort, but I only said it to support my statement about the difficulty of the job.

The only reason I was responding in the first place is because I was expressing an opinion contrary to yours. You may have thought being a server was a breeze... I have received several PMs since my post and all are in agreement with me that it is not easy, probably especially in WDW (although I know there are others out there that are in agreement with you - including some on this thread and that is fine). I am just as entitled as you to express an opinion.

I simply get defensive when people assume that it takes no brain cells to be a server, and that all that is required is walking food from the kitchen to a table. It is a demanding job and if you do go out of your way to make a dining experience special for someone, you should be rewarded (as you clearly were with your promotions). It was just funny for me to hear someone in the business speak about the job the way you did. Again, I don't want this thread to turn into bickering (it is your thread, so if that's what you wanted that works too), but I think there are others out there who have not worked in the business who would really like to see different perspectives, especially given that tipping may come back into play in the future even if you are on the DDP.

 

[FayeW]

I agree with FayeW I do think tipping customs are sometimes stupid and also that it should not be down to the restaurant patron to ensure the server gets a fair wage.
I think that the restaurants that earn more than enough profit from us eating and drinking there should ensure a fair wage for their employees.
I have had many jobs earning the minimum wage in the UK which is the same as most waitresses get and I never got tips.
I can just imagine answering the phone to my customers and giving an exceptional phone call and then wanting a tip at the end of it, it just doesnt happen.

Thanks Bellybee. Does the UK have a minimum wage must be paid for all employees? In Canada, each province has a minimum wage that is paid regardless of whether you are employed in a job where you would traditionally earn tips or not. Any additional income from gratuities is claimed when you do your income tax. Perhaps it is because in the UK and Canada we are more open to the idea that tipping, while encouraged, is voluntary. Since it is at the descretion of the patron, our government does not allow our employers to pay less than minimum wage on the assumption that gratuities will be forthcoming. One of the companies I worked for was actually unionized so I made more than minimum wage per hour.

**This was the case in the province I worked in. I am sure other Canadians will be happy to correct me if this is not the case for their province**.

I think what is happening in this thread is that guests are so used to paying an automatic 15 or 20% gratuity that they continue to do it even with mediocre service or subpar service. Then when they get the service they should simply expect they call it "exceptional" and leave 25% or more.

 

[FayeW]

As an attorney, I am sure that you understand that you should not respond to something unless you've read all of the relevant materials. If you had read the entire thread you would have seen the post where I said I am a "former server, dining room supervisor and restaurant manager". I've worn all the hats. I liked being a waitress and I was pretty good at it, hence the promotions.

I did read your post. I would not have responded the way I did if I had not read it. I knew saying that I was an attorney was going to cause you to retort, but I only said it to support my statement about the difficulty of the job.

The only reason I was responding in the first place is because I was expressing an opinion contrary to yours. You may have thought being a server was a breeze... I have received several PMs since my post and all are in agreement with me that it is not easy, probably especially in WDW (although I know there are others out there that are in agreement with you - including some on this thread and that is fine). I am just as entitled as you to express an opinion.

I simply get defensive when people assume that it takes no brain cells to be a server, and that all that is required is walking food from the kitchen to a table. It is a demanding job and if you do go out of your way to make a dining experience special for someone, you should be rewarded (as you clearly were with your promotions). It was just funny for me to hear someone in the business speak about the job the way you did. Again, I don't want this thread to turn into bickering (it is your thread, so if that's what you wanted that works too), but I think there are others out there who have not worked in the business who would really like to see different perspectives, especially given that tipping may come back into play in the future even if you are on the DDP.

Ah, well, maybe I am just remembering it more fondly as I reminisce about my misspent youth. Everything is easier in your 20's. I was hungover most of the 80's anyway so what do I know.

 

[PrincessMinnie28]

I will admit that I did enjoy some parts of being a server, but it lost some of its luster because I was doing it at the same time as most of college and all the way through law school.

Thank you for letting others share their views - this is a helpful thread for people who aren't overly-sensitive about the subject like me). I'm done venting now (at least on this thread). (Just kidding... I'm not that bad... I am going to WDW in 13 days after all!)

 

[HeatherPage]

Sadly, I usually just tip 20% because it's easier to figure out than 15% - 18%.

 

[DiRTyBuNNy]

FayeW...I think you need a hug (or the Sens to win the Stanley Cup...but I can't do that so how about a hug?).

--Mr. DB

 

[Mom of 3]

I tip based on the level of service. The other day I ate out and received mediocre service and tipped 12% as I gave the waiter the benefit of the doubt - maybe he was new. But when I get food that wasn't how I ordered it and thus I wouldn't eat it and the waiter did not offer to fix it when it was pointed out to him then I'm going to leave mad and hungry. But since the other 4 members of the lunch were happy with their meal - I tipped 12%. The manager did apologize and I did get a coupon for a free meal on another visit since my meal wasn't what I ordered and I didn't eat it.

When my husband and I go out for what I consider a really nice dinner - $100 for the two of us and we have a nice leisurely dinner over a couple of hours I don't mind tipping $20 - $25.

However, when you're ordering what is basically over priced food to begin with at Disney and the total for our family of 5 is $200 - it does seem to me a rather pricey tip - $40. Even if a waiter only had our table that would be some hourly rate - way more than my husband earns and he has a college degree and he works his butt off every day to earn his paycheck. Times that by the fact the the wait person has several tables that makes for a REALLY good hourly wage.

I don't know tipping is frustrating. I realize that is how the wait staff earn their money but ..... Anyway, maybe that is why I only eat out once a week (mostly because everyone else in the family wants to). Not to mention the fact that my cooking is better for a fraction of the price. I eat out less and less because the food and service in general are a disappointment. That goes for Disney places and everywhere else.

Favorite Disney restaurants: Boma and Corral Reef
Worst: Whispering Canyon and Marrekesh

 

[canda]

Ok lets pay the servers a fair wage. how does $10 per hour sound? That sounds pretty low. Lets form a union. Now we get $18 but you don't tip.


Lets see how much more food will cost and how much less these servers will have with 30% of their hourly incomed taxed away.


The great thing about our system is that people can reward for great service or they can punish for bad service.

Oh and the truth is, that the same people always have a problem with their order, and food, and service, everywhere they go.

 

[rewok]

My input on that won't be popular, but my mother always told me I talked too much! I have high expectations, because good service enhance the food to me, it's part of the package.

Most Canadian etiquette guides states that tipping should be 15% of the meal, and I didn't think it was any different in the States. I will tip this amount if service is good, meaning the server is pleasant and polite, I don't have to wait horribly at any time (taking my order, bringing drinks, bringing food from the kitchen while it's hot, having the bill), and the server comes around a few times to check on us. If any of this goes wrong, it would go down to 10%, and when really horrible, I can tip 0% (but it occured very few times).

The restaurant type also influences greatly my expectations about service. At a 5 stars restaurant, I'll expect the server to "guess" if anything is wrong just by our attitude and offer to exchange/fix the food, to quietly and constantly refill our wine and water glasses, to offer advices on wine pairing and such. And it won't make me tip more than 15%, they are getting 15% of 100$, not 40$, they should work more to earn that extra 9$, they have the same number of plates to bring out, so here comes the extra attention. However, if I get 5 stars service at a more family style restaurant, I'll go over and tip more, because it increased the meal value. Disney is hard to place, because you pay an inflated value for the meal, you would then expect the inflated service that should come with it. I'm on the dining plan, so until it changes, I don't have that dilemma.

Finally, I have a minimum tip I give out, because really, the breakfast waitress works a lot for that 5$ eggs and bacon plate, free coffee refills and glass of water refill. I leave a minimum of 1$ per person, usually 1.50$, unless I didn't get those coffee/water refills.

 

[jctwizzer]

I don't understand your comment.

THAT FIGURES!!!!!!!!!

 

[FayeW]

THAT FIGURES!!!!!!!!!

And now I don't understand yours, either.

 

[AKL_obsessed]

My guidelines are simple.
Normal tip is double the tax (8.25% in NY). If you were better then the typical server (aka: kept my drink filled constantly, were readily available, brought the extras sauces I requested, etc)....then you get a couple bucks more then that.

If you're horrendous (aka: you forget I exist and I feel like I could get more liquid in a desert) you get tax or nothing. Depending on my mood lol.

 

[AKLforever]

When I enter a restaurant to purchase a meal, the only contract I enter into is to pay for the meal which is provided to me. The wage of the employee who brings it to me is based on a contract negotiated between the employer and the employee and is irrelevant to me. If someone is unhappy with the wage they are offered to do a particular job, they are free to find more lucrative employment. If enough servers, bartenders, bellhops and housekeepers refused to do the job for the offered wage perhaps the employers would be forced to pay a wage that was more appropriate for the work required. As long as people are willing to accept that wage to do that job that is all that will be offered.

Your idea of "doing there required job" is all wrong, Im very sorry to say. In the field you describe, the idea of tips is to not "do there job" but to add to it as to make the person you are working with feel happy and pleased with there visit. This is why I find it very hard to believe you were a manager, or waitress at all. I have a friend who went up the ranks as you claim you did, and he became district manager. The only thing he asked of the wait staff (beyond normal tasks) was to act happy even if they were not. You see (this is the part your missing) if a person is happy or pleased with a place, they come back, and tell others to come back. If a waiter is mad, boring, monotone or anything of that sort, it doesnt make you feel good, and you will not likely be coming back.

Oh, and if you tip low, or not at all, then you better not come back to the same place offen, esp where I live in NY.
Watch the movie "waiting" and youll see what I mean.

 

[Bubbley4Disney]

Whoa ~~~ I thought the disboards was filled with friendly Disney loving people... I can't believe how heated everyone has gotten on this thread... I am afraid to express my opinion for fear of "Sarcastic" responses... But for the record, Tipping poor service is ridiculous. I agree with Faye W. (and why would you return to a place with poor service?)

 

[Uncleromulus]

Trying to keep this thread open!!
Canda is quite right--pay the servers a normal wage and watch the "menu shock". Ham and Eggs for breakfast at $19.95. That Black Angus Filet at $60.00??
Most servers earn around $2.00-$3.00 and hour around here. Triple that wage (or more) and menu prices will go sky high. And then there may be little or no "incentive" for good to excellent service.
The American way of menu pricing and tipping has been around for a long time, and probably for a reason---.

 

[FayeW]

Trying to keep this thread open!!
Canda is quite right--pay the servers a normal wage and watch the "menu shock". Ham and Eggs for breakfast at $19.95. That Black Angus Filet at $60.00??
Most servers earn around $2.00-$3.00 and hour around here. Triple that wage (or more) and menu prices will go sky high. And then there may be little or no "incentive" for good to excellent service.
The American way of menu pricing and tipping has been around for a long time, and probably for a reason---.

Well, it works out okay here in Canada...our servers are paid the same minimum wage as everybody else (or at least they were in the provinces I worked in). Our menu prices are in line with US prices (and sometimes lower). I really don't think you would see astronomical price increases ( because I am going to assume that a waiter will serve more than one single entre over an hour, therefore you would probably see small increases on all items to offset the increased wage) but that is the same arguement I have read on other threads about increasing minimum wage overall.

All of the wage issues aside, I am getting a better understanding of what many consider exceptional service. I wish there was a better formula for determining appropriate tipping rather than a percentage basis but I guess we have to make due with what we've got until somebody can think of something better.

 

[mom2my3kids]

I am a server and I will tip extra, but I don't think people should feel they have to tip extra when there is 18 percent already added to the bill. If you have extra and the service was great then throw a few extra bucks or even a five down for them. I am sure it will brighten their day.