Response to my Email

Originally posted by Another Voice
Because no one cares. People are worried about WDW. Besides, should Disney's mark of excellence only be "we're marginally better than the guys down the road"?
If people didn't/don't care, then why do most like to compare and contrast both parks. It all comes down to a matter of opinion. Disney is still the best value for me and my partner. It might not be true for John Smith or Susie Sunshine, but for us it works. We both like Disney and Jason likes IOA, neither of us like Universal Studios, so we take a day out of our Disney travels to visit IOA. Our IOA diversion is once, maybe twice a year.

how come with higher attendance we get shorter hours?
How is their higher attendance, when everyone keeps talking about the "millions" of people that are staying away?

Not only are there more people, there are fewer rides, shows and restaurants open.
Could you elaborate? I'm not sure which shows and rides you are talking about.
 
How is their higher attendance, when everyone keeps talking about the "millions" of people that are staying away?
Hours started shrinking at least by 1998. Attendance didn't drop until 2001.

More recently, attendance in the Oct-Dec quarter of '02 was higher than the same quarter in '01 (per Disney in their earnings call), yet hours were decreased.

The only difference is that when attendance is falling, the cuts to the hours are greater.

Regarding Universal.... Once again, Disney's primary competition are family resort destinations all over the globe, not just Universal. Using Universal as a benchmark for WDW is a big mistake.

But if you are, Hopemax makes an excellent point.

...don't you expect a 14 million people a year park to have longer hours than the 6 million people a year park?


People are set on being aggitated about the parks closing early.
No more than others seem to be set on justifying parks closing early.

I understand YOU don't care about hours, and really, nobody is saying you should. If you don't care, you don't care. But it should be easy to understand why some other people might care.

Some are late risers and don't want to arrive at the parks early. Others like to arrive early, take the kids back for a nap, then return for the evening. Some just want to avoid the afternoon heat, and still others want greater flexibility in park hopping. Some just like the nightime atmosphere in the parks.

Whatever, the point is, something these customers value is being reduced and/or taken away from them.

If some people feel they are getting less value for their dollar, they will do one of two things. (1)Speak out about it, like we are, or (2)Not go, like some here, as are others who don't care enough to post their opinions on the Internet.

As we are reminded so often, Disney is a business. Yet, for some reason, many seem to think Disney is immune from the law of business that says if you reduce the benefits guests receive from your product, demand for your product will decrease.
 
What I wonder is why nobody ever seems to have a problem with Universal's hours.
Universal passes are also considerably less expensive than WDW's. But like you pointed out, this is all a matter of opinion. I like Universal Park and I intend to go back. The hours do matter but not as much because I can go to Universal on a shoestring, at least for now but Disney is pricey so I have to plan more carefully in my opinion.
 
Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
What I wonder is why nobody ever seems to have a problem with Universal's hours.

As for me, I could not care less about Universal. I don't care if they are open 24/7 or for only 15 minutes a day. Me and my family will travel to Florida for WDW, but I would nevber consider traveling exclusively for a Universal vacation -although we may visit there some day just to check it out.
 

Originally posted by raidermatt
If some people feel they are getting less value for their dollar, they will do one of two things. (1)Speak out about it, like we are, or (2)Not go, like some here, as are others who don't care enough to post their opinions on the Internet.

Disney should be thankful for people like me and the many others on this forum who are voicing our discontent. After all, if you're like me -cruising on a Disney Board after midnight -WDW has you hooked. After we return in June I would like to think I would have the discipline to not run back into the arms of WDW. But the most likely scenario is that, out of disgust, I will delay my next trip for longer than I might otherwise have planned.
What should be a sobering thought to Disney is the millions of customers who are somewhat dissatisfied or totally P.O.d who don't bother to write, gripe on a board like this one, or speak out. All they will be doing is NOT COMING BACK. Getting ushered out of MK on a Friday in June at 7pm can suck a lot of magic out of a vacation. Maybe the "pixie dust" level for these silent millions will reach a point where they just stop giving a hoot about WDW. Apathy is a stone-cold killer.
 
Originally posted by Zippa D Doodah
but I would nevber consider traveling exclusively for a Universal vacation -although we may visit there some day just to check it out.


...and there you have it.
 
The unanswered question remains: how come with higher attendance we get shorter hours? Not only are there more people, there are fewer rides, shows and restaurants open.

Simple economics - Inflation, consumption and greed. Unless they raise the ticket prices, there has to be another way to generate the margins.

I'm not convinced we are dealing with a situation of higher attendance yet. I seem to recall an operating philosophy that the lines would never disappear irregardless of attendance because the parks never wanted to present a look and feeling of being empty. The easiest way to accomplish this is manipulate ride capacity, park hours, and operating venues.
 
/
I have yet to read a single attempt to rationalize this. Anyone care to try?
Heck, you know I'll take a stab at............................................

Only kidding (hehehehe) ;). I've stayed out of the fray on this one as I actually agree with those with whom I usually disagree :eek:. The hours situation sucks. The fact that I honestly believe the hours of old will never return, regardless of how high attendance gets, sucks even more. Indeed, I am of the opinion that what I believe were once justifiable reactions to outside events affects on attendance have become standard operating procedure, and Disney will have a harder time getting the attendance where they want it with this modus operendi.

While the hours last week were long enough to see and do what we wanted, they were not long enough to provide my family with the flexibility we used to have back in the 90's, but I'll try and stay away from that kind of subjective analysis as it usually gets me in trouble ;).

Here is something else I noted during our trip last week, and it has to do with ride capacity. The flexibility of park touring issue aside, one might try to rationalize that with the lower crowds of off peak times (and the crowds weren't that large last week, on the weekdays at least) guests might be able to do everything within shorter operating hours. The thing I noted last week was that a number of rides were not operating at full capacity. Take ToT for example. When I went on it they were only loading from two positions. I'm not an expert on how these rides work, but given that there are four loading positions it would seem the ride was operating around 50% capacity. The line once you left the library was backed up all the way to the libraries, so much so that they couldn't close the doors as people couldn't get into the hallway. With a fastpass it took forty five minutes, start to finish, to experience ToT. So, it seems not only are we socked with shorther hours, but it really isn't that easy to experience everything in those hours as the lines are not as short as one would expect with lower attendance. Soooo, you get short hours and lines that are almost as long as they are during peak times, and that is a baaaad thing. As for rides where I saw the same issue, off the top of my head I can think of Living with the Land and the Indy Motor Speedway.

Not that we didn't have a great trip, in fact more Magical than the last (moreso for personal reasons than what Disney is currently offering), but things ain't what they used to be. (Boy, do I hate sounding like Baron ;)).
 
I found this interesting t shirt yesterday and stumbled across this thread today. I will relish in wearing this to my trip in July. I have been disappointed and frustrated for so long (and I do fear what the park hours will be on my trip and how many chicken nuggets my kids will have to eat--sorry!) that I just have to buy it. Things are just not the way they used to be or should be! I know I will not make a difference being just one person but I just want to see people's reaction maybe let someone know that someone else cares about the way things are . Having grown up within an hour of DL my whole life, believe you me, even though we may still have longer hours here, people are just as frustrated over here about the overall conditition of things. Haven't renewed my AP either and don't plan to for quite some time. Looked for some posting guidelines but didn't find any so sorry if I am not allowed to insert this link. http://www.justinspace.com/pret/ShirtsDis.html
;) ;) ;)
hayesmama
hoping things can turn around and change
 
>>>Besides hours at some times, specifically what is "less" from last year when considered against what is new this year?<<<


Gee, just hours at some time. Well, let's take a look at the hours
(using 6/02 vs 6/03):

MK - open 30 hours less over last year
EP FW - 30 hours less over last year
AK - 29 hours less over last year
TL - 63.5 hours less over last year
BB - 63.5 hours less over last year

Those numbers speak for themselves.

But, since specifics were asked for, here are a couple using my 6 day time slot at the end of 6/02 vs 6/03)

MK - 4 less Spectromagics and 4 less FITS
EP - 6 less TOD ( actually Disney discontinued the TOD)
MGM - 4 less Fantasmics

And, of course, lest we forget the loss of one "chicken-finger".

So, what's new this year for my time slot? Nothing as far as I know. If anyone knows what's new for 6/19/03 -6/24/03, make my day and let me know.
 
Besides hours at some times, specifically what is "less" from last year when considered against what is new this year?
First, Sir Scoop a Lot, we need to be clear that hours are a major factor. Can't experience the wonder of the Magic Kingdom after dark if it closes at 7pm. Flexibility is lost, and as DK pointed out, since attraction capacity is reduced, the number of attractions that can be experienced does not go up in direct proportion with reduced attendance.

That said, Hunchback and Tapestry of Dreams are gone from a year ago, and CoP and Timekeeper remain closed.

Can't think of a new attraction compared to same time last year. The China film was replaced, which was nice.
 
Hayesmama,

Love the T-shirt!

Maybe we should have a Rumors & News board meet at WDW and all be wearing one of those T-shirts. Do you think we'd be escorted out of the Park?:rolleyes:
 
How many people on a very busy day go to the Magic Kingdom. Are we talking 65,000 or 10,000 5,000, 2,000. What is it, I have no idea.

Reading the boards, you see people that are return visitors. What would happen if people just went once in their lives and never returned. But we all know that doesn't happen. People are usually loyal to what they love. If they love what they are doing they will usually return.


Look at car races, 125,000 can attend a Nascar Race in one day. These people usually only attend 1 Nascar Race a year. These tickets can run $300-$800 dollars just for one person. What would happen to the Race Car industry if they didn't have the yearly repeat customer. There industry would shut down over nite.

I'm just saying if you don't love your vacation anymore and it makes you aggravited, mad, find something else to do. Change is good!
 
I'm just saying if you don't love your vacation anymore and it makes you aggravited, mad, find something else to do. Change is good!
Very good point, and some here have done just that.

Others still love their WDW vacations very much, but are not happy about some changes.

Certainly there is middle ground between complete support of every decision Disney makes and deciding to never visit WDW again. Don't you agree?

After all, discussion of such things is one of the reasons this board is here, and certainly a big reason it is as active as it is.
 
Others still love their WDW vacations very much, but are not happy about some changes.
Some might even call it tough love. The more you love something, the more you want see it continue to succeed, so the tougher you are to try and help it maintain that success. I say that Disney ain't what it used to be, but that doesn't mean it isn't still the best game in town when it comes to vacation destinations for our family.
 
You know- the thing about hours is that it just depends on your circumstance, what all you want to do, who you are/who you are taking/the reason you are going/etc.
When I went on my solo trip in Jan- it wasn't all that busy and I was alone- I could go early and stay all day if I wanted. Did it bother me that the hours weren't as long as our Christmas trip? NOT AT ALL. Would it have bothered me if they'd closed even earlier? Probably not.
However.......
It's a whole different ballgame when you are going during a time when you would assume they would be busy (summer? Aren't most kids and college students out of school during this time? Don't a LOT of people believe you shouldn't take children out of school for a WDW vacation? Don't even some people not WORK during the summer- with seasonal jobs like teachers/etc. -meaning those that actually do have the summer off and aren't working another job during the summer/etc. WOULDN'T this be a given that it will be busier during the summer???? It would seem so to me).

Also -someone mentioned do people really go to the parks from open to close and how they go back the resorts midday or afternoon and that's that for them. Well golly, I don't think we are paying what we are paying for HALF a day at the parks! Those with families would probably (atleast some- maybe most) prefer to take their children, young children, or heck maybe THEY don't like the midday heat and crowds EITHER- back to the resort for naps, a midday break, etc but does that mean they want that to be IT? Maybe they want to return to get MORE than what..... opening at 8/9am to 12/1pm is what- 4-5hrs or so?.... for their ticket they paid for the day? Come on- up to almost $10 per hour if you only go 4-5hrs??? For EACH person in your family?
Get real. Sometimes you might ride one or two rides or attractions/shows in that amount of time. Up to or close to $10 per 1-2 rides/shows??? PER PERSON???

I have to also agree with the person about the nighttime thing. I really think that is enjoyable for a lot of people- myself included. Do I need to experience that on EVERY trip- well no... but it sure is nice to go back to the parks when it's cooler and your children have had a rest instead of having to do commando day and not leave the park because it's closing early. But anyway, back to the night thing- it truly is like a different park. My very first trip to WDW (last Dec/Christmas Day) and it was my very first day at WDW at MK.... (let's not even talk about how crowded it was LOL) but it was open late and after we went back and the kids went to sleep -I went back to MK after dark and stayed till almost closing (it closed late that day- midnight I believe- maybe it was 11pm... I know the parade was at 10pm) -and I was AMAZED at what a difference it was at night. I can't even really put it into words- but my only regret is that my kids didn't enjoy that. Would it bother me that they may NEVER enjoy that unless I happen to go back again on Christmas day or some other day they just might HAPPEN to be open that late -deciding this MONTHS after I've already paid and planned to go? Yes, it does bother me. Because I highly doubt I will ever brave going at that time of year again and at the moment.... I don't really see them staying open that late again at any other time of the year. Pessimistic? I think it's being realistic.

No matter what "good" you try to make of it no matter what they throw your way- you canNOT argue and say that others don't have a right to be upset when they have to save for, plan, pay for vacations months in advance and then shortly before their trip find out they will have short hours (and in the SUMMER no less? I agree- that is a slap in the face to close early in the summer to have an e-night. Didn't e-nights used to be added ON to the schedule? Not closing early just to have an e-night end the park's hours close to what the normal hours would have been anyway??? And that doesn't sound like they are just trying to get more MONEY out of their existing "CUSTOMERS" -I agree not guest, customers.... they need to remember that- who are already there and are craving the hours they should have gotten to begin with?????? It sure does to me. And btw- I'm not even going this summer, so I'm not just sucking on sour grapes. Unbiased opinion here- I will probably NEVER go during the summer honestly)

Personally, if the times we can plan our trips end up being where there are really short hours- we probably won't go often either. I can't say never- because I have wanted to go to WDW all my life and even after 2 recent trips I haven't had my "fill" yet. But I can totally see why others that have been going for years are upset that they are getting less and less for their money- while prices go up (even just a little- here and there it adds up! And where else have you heard of a company raising prices while giving you less for your money and lasting very long with that business practice??). If we have to go and only spend 4hrs or so because the hours are too short to be able to return to the park after a midday nap/break.... because our children can't handle going all day in the heat/crowds/etc. from opening to close - then it's going to seem like a much more "expensive" vacation to me and I'm sure I'll lose the "addictive" feeling I have right now about going and spending time there..... because I consider myself pretty frugal and I don't easily just BLOW money..... for 4hrs or so per day. NO thanks to that.

(and before you tell me that even closing at 6/7pm we should be able to do midday nap/breaks and return to the park a bit afterwards:
A) some parks close even earlier than that. AK already has to be a park that you either do 2 days or miss out on a lot of things OR attempt to go all day without a break, closing at 5pm- although I understand the reasoning behind that)
B) Might not always be so. If you leave -let's be generous here and say noon or 1pm (when in actuality even planning on leaving for the resort at that time of day doesn't mean you'll actually make it out of the park by that time.... it takes some time to do so) -do you blink your eyes and arrive at the resort? Ofcourse not- there is some time spent getting there no matter what transportation you use- it varies though depending on what trans. you use. Then after that you arrive, dip in the pool like EVERYONE recommends doing, take a nap or other relaxing break. How long is that? Well that can vary too- but let's say getting to resort, swimming in pool, will you also have a late lunch during that time? Or will you have lunch in the park taking up part of your precious 4-5hrs while you were there? Nap, get ready to go back to the park, transportation back to the park- when will you arrive there? 5pm? 6pm? When you get there- will you also be hungry for dinner? Will your children (if you have children- assuming you do in this situation). Is it REALLY worth all the hassle to go back just to have an hour or so at the park PLUS being right around dinner time for you and your children?

Not for me it wouldn't be. No way I would go through all that to get back at the park with 3 children who are probably hungry again at that point- just for an hour or two at most. No way.

Here I am thinking we can make the vacation more enjoyable and relaxing to take it at a slower pace and take midday breaks/etc- but if the hours are that short- you really can't do that unless you are willing for your "day" at the parks to ONLY be 4-5hrs in the morning. And that's assuming you can get your entire family up that early and at the park at opening. I am not willing to do that... it's just not worth it physically, emotionally, mentally, and FINANCIALLY for me to go through all that for 4-5hrs at that price. No way. So the only other option is to either not go or go and not take midday breaks. *sigh*
 
As much as I can agree with people being upset with the shorter hours at Disney World, I can't understand anyone who doesn't feel 9/11 has anything to do with it. If you are either in the travel industry or know someone who is you have to know people are not traveling like they did before 9/11. So if anyone wants to write or call Disney, so be it. But don't assume that large amounts of people aren't going to Disney because of the hours. More probably its because they are afraid to fly, or lost there job, or are afraid they will loss them.IMHO.

Also, Universal is not any cheaper than Disney. A one day pass to either park is within a dollar or two.

I do love Disney, and just came back. Yes there are changes since my 1st trip, you can tell there have been cutbacks. But I can't think of many things in this world that haven't changed and unfortunatly Disney World is one of them.
 
but things ain't what they used to be.

Hardly anything is anymore. We sound exactly like many generations before us. The good old days of disney may very well remain just that - a fond memory. Our offspring will likely recall something different in terms of service and amenities which may not have any affect on their vacation plans whatsoever. If you truly love WDW you will frequently visit despite your woes. It's a place you are continually drawn to and given time, your feelings inevitably soften and you are bound to return.

There are so many individuals who annually vacation at the same destination whether their previous experience was positive or negative. The same holds true for WDW. Why? Basically it has to do with preference. What you prefer given any other choice remains relatively constant in your life. People tend to associate their feelings with what they are familiar with and typically do not venture beyond that which they've come to know and tend to rely on.
 
Hardly anything is anymore. We sound exactly like many generations before us. The good old days of disney may very well remain just that - a fond memory.
Hey, if a candy bar could be had for the 'good old days' price of a nickel right up thru 2000 and then jumped to 50 cents, then 75 cents, over the course of a couple of years I'd give you that Disney hours had just followed the natural progression of 'things ain't what they used to be'. However, I don't believe that is the case. As the cost of a candy bar rose steadily from the 1950's thru 2000, Disney's hours remained pretty much the same. I just can't write this off as 'good old days syndrome'. I would agree that Disney ticket prices, Disney resort rates, etc. are not what they were in the past, but that would never prompt me to say thet Disney (the organization) wasn't what it used to be. To long for the $20 daily admission to the MK would indeed be 'good old days syandrome'. To long for the organization to return to its' successful operating practices of the not too distant past is something different.

Disney had always been able to maintain their operating hours - and that contributed greatly to making people fall in love with Disney and becoming lifelong fans. The economy takes a turn, 9-11 hits, the tourism industry suffers, and the downturn in the economy lags on. All of this prompts a response from Disney (justifiably so) and they do something they had never done - they cut hours (along with other things). I believe the cuts were a response to specific events. I also believe that when those events are no longer as significant a factor as they had been, that Disney should return to the ways that made them so successful, that they maintained for nearly 30 years. While that may not be best for this quarters' bottom line or next quarters, or even the quarter after tha, it would be best for Disney in the long term. I just don't know if Disney has too many managers thinking long term at this point, at least not the way they used to - and it is hard to argue with the old thinkink that made Disney the most unique entertainment company in the world.
 
All of this prompts a response from Disney (justifiably so) and they do something they had never done - they cut hours (along with other things). I believe the cuts were a response to specific events.
It has moved way beyond this. Costs have been spiraling out of control since the end of the last recession. Internal overhead is one of the most significant causes of this. Take a good look at the value vs price of an education trend. It is not enrollment driven - it is cost driven. The growth of the human resources department; the legal department; the quality control department; the finance department; the mean salary/bonus/fringe benefit figures. insurance; litigation; legislation; etc........etc......etc....... None of which generates one dollar of revenue. How does a company control this given the contraints without jeopardizing its product?
 












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