Response to ADA Suit

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why not allow persons with a DAS to have their FP times extended or at least consider it being more flexible.

do they not allow you to show up after the return time on the DAS?

 

[nobodies36]

why not allow persons with a DAS to have their FP times extended or at least consider it being more flexible.

do they not allow you to show up after the return time on the DAS?

You can show up anytime after for DAS. So that would be an workable solution for me at least as I could put the rides for the morning and if I made them great, but if I didn't and could still do them in the afternoon then that would help me big time and then not have to keep any times from other people as I would be keeping the ones I booked (perhaps just not at that time). I may actually use that if I may as a suggestion to Disney next time they make me explain my needs before telling me they cannot help. Another way I wouldn't have to be a burden for the non-disabled folk by stealing all the fastpass plus times.

I don't think it would be good enough for the lawsuit folks though!

 

[wilkeliza]

You can show up anytime after for DAS. So that would be an workable solution for me at least as I could put the rides for the morning and if I made them great, but if I didn't and could still do them in the afternoon then that would help me big time and then not have to keep any times from other people as I would be keeping the ones I booked (perhaps just not at that time). I may actually use that if I may as a suggestion to Disney next time they make me explain my needs before telling me they cannot help. Another way I wouldn't have to be a burden for the non-disabled folk by stealing all the fastpass plus times.

I don't think it would be good enough for the lawsuit folks though!

What might also help you is that you do not needed to be present to get a ride return time only present to use it.

Edited to remove incorrect information.

 

[SueM in MN]

What might also help you is that you do not needed to be present to get a ride return time only present to use it.

That way say you are not able to return until 8pm I believe you're family would be able to have several rides already on the das and ready to use.

Some have reported that if you don't use it and try to go get another time for a different ride once time had passed they mark of the old ride but I don't remeber that in my training.

Other members of the group would be able to get ONE DAS Return Time that the person the DAS was issued to can use later that day.

Until it is used or cancelled, that DAS Return Time is considered 'active'.
Guests can only have one active DAS Return Time.

 

[lanejudy]

... Some have reported that if you don't use it and try to go get another time for a different ride once time had passed they mark of the old ride but I don't remember that in my training.

That is standard procedure. I'm not sure when or where you trained, but that is the basics of the DAS. One return time is allowed. It is even in their printed materials.

 

[wilkeliza]

Other members of the group would be able to get ONE DAS Return Time that the person the DAS was issued to can use later that day.

Until it is used or cancelled, that DAS Return Time is considered 'active'.
Guests can only have one active DAS Return Time.

Thanks for the clarification. I must admit my attraction got the bare minimum of training on the subject because we only see them during the busy season.

 

[SMD]

You can show up anytime after for DAS. So that would be an workable solution for me at least as I could put the rides for the morning and if I made them great, but if I didn't and could still do them in the afternoon then that would help me big time and then not have to keep any times from other people as I would be keeping the ones I booked (perhaps just not at that time). I may actually use that if I may as a suggestion to Disney next time they make me explain my needs before telling me they cannot help. Another way I wouldn't have to be a burden for the non-disabled folk by stealing all the fastpass plus times.

I don't think it would be good enough for the lawsuit folks though!

I wouldn't even worry about taking an FP spot from someone else. Everyone has the same opportunity to get them, and one less group through the FP will get another group through the standby queue a little quicker. I see not using an FP as no harm, no foul. Likewise, if I were to schedule an FP for day 2 of my trip, and something forced me to abandon it (for me that might be a bee sting), I would be happy if I could go back on day 3, 4 or 5 and be able to try standby or try for another FP. If I miss the ride, I mean I'd be disappointed because obviously it was something I wanted to do enough to schedule my FP, but hey, an unexpected thing happened, I survived it and am grateful that it didn't put a halt to my whole trip.

 

[lanejudy]

I think one thing many (plaintiffs and others) might be confusing is the concept of working with individuals. Yes, Disney indicates "we will continue to work individually with our Guests to provide assistance." However, this does not automatically translate into "personalized accommodations." It means having a one-on-one discussion with the guest (or parent) about how the individual is impacted within the parks. The accommodations offered will still be fairly standardized (even for all the "rare" needs out there, WDW probably sees a hundred or more in a year with that same "rare" need, plus attraction CMs also have to be able to recognize how to handle the accommodation), not interfere with normal operating system of the parks, and within the ADA regulations. That is the spirit of the ADA; not necessarily to equalize the experience itself but the access to the experience.

Pixie dust is always a bonus and should never be expected to occur a second time.

 

[jcb]

For those that are asking what happens next with the lawsuit.

It's important to remember that the "lawsuit" is, in reality, 16 different civil actions (with multiple claims) joined together in one proceeding but it isn't a class action. There are rules which govern the joinder of actions by different people (there have to be common issues of law or fact) and while there are probably issues in common for most of the parents claims, it could be that some claims will drop out or be tried separately. Disney might even ask that the WDW claims be transferred to Florida for trial.

Each parent will have to independently establish an ADA violation. Just because Disney violated the ADA in one action (so the allegation would go) doesn't mean it violated the ADA in the others. The parents who have not been to Disney at all after DAS will have the hardest time, I expect.

The parties can always talk settlement. Disney could settle with one or all of the parents. If they don't settle, then at this point, both sides will probably spend a good bit of time in discovery. Disney will get all sorts of information regarding the condition of the children (which it will not be able to disclose) and the parents will seek discovery regarding DAS, why it was implemented.

If I were defending Disney (and I"m not), I would go though the complaint and require each parent to provide information regarding the sensational allegations, e.g., who said what, when, where and who who was present when it was said.

Discovery can take months.

At some point, if the actions aren't settled, Disney could ask the court to dismiss the claims because the evidence is insufficient.

The courts in Los Angeles (where this case has been filed) also have the option to require the parties to mediate. In the Splash Mountain lawsuit, the court ordered the parties to mediate before one of the magistrate judges before letting them try the lawsuit.

As to money damages, the statutes on which they rely don’t allow for anything more than small damage awards. Florida and federal law does not provide for any damage award. Of course, the parents really want an injunction but, as I have said, I'm really not all that clear on exactly what it is they want the court to order Disney to do. As Sue has mentioned, their request for relief merely recites boilerplate language.

 

[nobodies36]

I wouldn't even worry about taking an FP spot from someone else. Everyone has the same opportunity to get them, and one less group through the FP will get another group through the standby queue a little quicker. I see not using an FP as no harm, no foul. Likewise, if I were to schedule an FP for day 2 of my trip, and something forced me to abandon it (for me that might be a bee sting), I would be happy if I could go back on day 3, 4 or 5 and be able to try standby or try for another FP. If I miss the ride, I mean I'd be disappointed because obviously it was something I wanted to do enough to schedule my FP, but hey, an unexpected thing happened, I survived it and am grateful that it didn't put a halt to my whole trip.

I know I shouldn't feel bad, but I do. I just don't think my enjoyment should come with such a wastage of resources.

I think one thing many (plaintiffs and others) might be confusing is the concept of working with individuals. Yes, Disney indicates "we will continue to work individually with our Guests to provide assistance." However, this does not automatically translate into "personalized accommodations." It means having a one-on-one discussion with the guest (or parent) about how the individual is impacted within the parks. The accommodations offered will still be fairly standardized (even for all the "rare" needs out there, WDW probably sees a hundred or more in a year with that same "rare" need, plus attraction CMs also have to be able to recognize how to handle the accommodation), not interfere with normal operating system of the parks, and within the ADA regulations. That is the spirit of the ADA; not necessarily to equalize the experience itself but the access to the experience.

Pixie dust is always a bonus and should never be expected to occur a second time.

I use the term loosely and reference the open letter from Meg Crofton http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/bl...r-walt-disney-world-resort-disneyland-resort/

"...and we will continue to work individually with our Guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to their unique circumstances."

and also here http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

"What will Disney Parks do if a Guest is concerned the DAS Card doesn’t meet their needs?
Disney Parks have long recognized and accommodated guests with varying needs and will continue to work individually with guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to their unique circumstances. Guests should visit Guest Relations to discuss their individual needs."

and finally here https://wdpromedia.disney.go.com/me...Disability-Access-Service-Card-2014-04-10.pdf

"Special Accommodations for Specific Circumstances
The DAS card, with its virtual wait, will accommodate many of our Guests with disabilities. We
recognize, however, that our Guests with disabilities have varying needs, and we will continue to
work individually with our Guests to provide assistance.
In unique situations, our Guest Relations staff will discuss special accommodations for persons who
are concerned the DAS Card doesn't meet their needs (e.g., for those whose disability limits the
duration of their visit to the park or limits their choice of attractions)"

When I was there in chageover day I was told not to cancel my May holiday as teething problems would be sorted out by then and I would be able to have some form of help as the CMs recognised that the DAS was not really suitable but all they were allowed to offer at the time. We did. We spend tens of thousands of dollars to go again and when we arrived with printouts of these statements and the assistance I receive at another park (which realises their DAS like program does not work and came up with a suitable alternative). I had to go to Guest Relations every day at every park (when I gave up on day 4 once I realised I was being given the run around and that no-one in the parks had the authority to do anything. I would have to wait until I returned to go much higher.

When I am told what I was told last October and see what exactly Disney claims they will do then I do not think I expect and greater 'personalised accommodations' than they state they wish to offer. They offered nothing but rudeness actually and acted like giving me the DAS was their generosity and I should be grateful of help that isn't helpful.

Again, I tend not to post over here and only wanted to highlight the negative impact to FP I am told to be because they do not wish to stick to the claims that they make publicly regarding people who have a need that is not covered by the DAS.

Please don't confuse what I am saying and the point I am making with the people who clearly want more than their fair share to the point of legal action. That would just be too cruel

 

[aaarcher86]

I can see why you'd feel bad (though I don't think you should) about FP. But I don't see the harm in scheduling something and changing the times around if they end up not working. If you don't use them, so be it. That happens to tons of people every day without unique circumstances. It happened with the old FP system. It's just part of the process. I don't know if they accommodate for that in how many they give out per day (give out 100 knowing only 80 will use them, etc).

I'm honestly not sure how realistically they could offer the system you're suggesting. Legally, I don't think they can require you to give up FP+ to receive 4 anytime FP to use. Forcing people to pick and choose accommodations sounds like it would get hairy under the law, even if you'd sign away that you were agreeing.

Putting it into perspective with the people from the lawsuit, I just don't think they'd go for it personally. I think the amount of people that would choose 4 anytime FP over another would be minimal (if it was possible). If it's not possible they'd essentially be giving someone 7 FP admissions if they combine it with FP+, which I understand isn't ideal for you - just thinking of it on a global level. At that point someone could be doing 7 rides in 3 hours which is back to the issue of the old GAC.

 

[TulipsNZ]

I posted this earlier but I think it got missed?

My question was
What accommodations would help those who need immediate access.

If their were a central DSA booth that could monitor ride wait times? Then those with a card could approach the booth inform which ride they want to ride and get a pass for that ride with the estimated wait time for the line as it stands? That way they don't have to approach the ride and leave yet still have to wait the same length of time as other patrons.

I have no idea if this sort of thing would work but just theorising options that may help.

 

[Gracie09]

I posted this earlier but I think it got missed? My question was What accommodations would help those who need immediate access. If their were a central DSA booth that could monitor ride wait times? Then those with a card could approach the booth inform which ride they want to ride and get a pass for that ride with the estimated wait time for the line as it stands? That way they don't have to approach the ride and leave yet still have to wait the same length of time as other patrons. I have no idea if this sort of thing would work but just theorising options that may help.

Disney land has three or four booths at which people can get returns times. There are complaints that people have to walk more, that they have to pass the ride they want to ride, that it takes them longer etc etc

Basically some people like it one way and some like it another and there is no pleasing everyone

 

[Coonhound]

Disney land has three or four booths at which people can get returns times. There are complaints that people have to walk more, that they have to pass the ride they want to ride, that it takes them longer etc etc

Basically some people like it one way and some like it another and there is no pleasing everyone

I think it's kind of strange that some people want a way to get a return time at a ride that's all the way on the other side of the park from where the currently are.
For non-disabled guests, they cannot start waiting in the line until they actually approach the ride and enter the line.
So it seems kind of improbable that you should be able to enter the line (a virtual line) for one ride when you're across the park at a different ride.

 

[nobodies36]

I can see why you'd feel bad (though I don't think you should) about FP. But I don't see the harm in scheduling something and changing the times around if they end up not working. If you don't use them, so be it. That happens to tons of people every day without unique circumstances. It happened with the old FP system. It's just part of the process. I don't know if they accommodate for that in how many they give out per day (give out 100 knowing only 80 will use them, etc).

I'm honestly not sure how realistically they could offer the system you're suggesting. Legally, I don't think they can require you to give up FP+ to receive 4 anytime FP to use. Forcing people to pick and choose accommodations sounds like it would get hairy under the law, even if you'd sign away that you were agreeing.

Putting it into perspective with the people from the lawsuit, I just don't think they'd go for it personally. I think the amount of people that would choose 4 anytime FP over another would be minimal (if it was possible). If it's not possible they'd essentially be giving someone 7 FP admissions if they combine it with FP+, which I understand isn't ideal for you - just thinking of it on a global level. At that point someone could be doing 7 rides in 3 hours which is back to the issue of the old GAC.

I wont be able to cancel 95% of the FP I don't make as I will only know I have missed them when I can wake up and see I have missed them. I do try to cancel any I know I wont make once I can but it doesn't really happen. More than 100 FP spaces went to waste on my last trip alone. That doesn't seem sensible to me.

I'm not actually suggesting a system. I was just trying to make an example of with blank fastpasses people without disabilities are not subject to me making multiple wasted reservations. I came up with that as an example as an implementation that had no bearing or relation in the general public fastpasses. They cannot put that system into play and my later point was even if they do implement anything new it will only be subject to abuse because proof cannot be required. I used 4 as an example because that is the average rides the average person does in a day according to Disney.

The point was it would be nice is Disney had accommodations that they claim to have for those whose disability limits the duration of their visit. People (adults) with cancer, adults who are dying or have life limiting conditions, children who have needed a MAW trip. These are just some of the examples of people who may not be able to spend as much time in the park as everyone else. It would be nice to see an accommodation made where these people at least get to ride the average of four rides per day however they need to do that. Isn't that what Disney says they will do in the above link- find some way of helping these guests? So far my experience has not been help but told to book FP I cannot use and take them away from others so other people miss out on the FP and I still only get one or two rides a day.

In a dream world I would like nothing more than to see an accommodation to allow someone to do the same amount of rides in a smaller space of time of needed. Sure, I was suggesting that it would have to be a system that superseded FP, but not suggesting that system itself, as it would have to be something that would still be fair and not excess and certainly not abusable by anyone who would not desperately need such an accommodation.

Although the lawsuit and reasoning is utter nonsense I am glad that it bring attention to what using the DAS means for those with disabilities it works for, those who cannot get the DAS to work for them and how the general public feels about waiting unnecessarily.

An example was used earlier with a child waiting and a MAW child going next and then a GAC and then another GAC and then the character left and the original, patient child missed out. I don't like GAC and I feel wasting 100s of FP spots every trip is so unnecessarily unfair on all the patient children. I could understand it it actually helped me nobody got the use out of those tickets and as I stated earlier my biggest worry was how the multiple dining reservations were 'solved' by credit card deposits. That would be the point I would be unable to visit at all.

I never wanted this to be about me, merely highlight what Disney are suggesting for people like me which doesn't help me, isn't what they claim they would do and takes away FP spots from others. Bringing it back to the reason for the lawsuit and the reasoning behind the GAC DAS change and use vs abuse debate. I just thought it would be interesting information whilst debating the details of the lawsuit.

Bed calls. Night all. I'll not have internet access for most of the weekend so I am not ignoring any comments and look forward to more debate and catch up on the lawsuit.

 

[nobodies36]

I posted this earlier but I think it got missed?

My question was
What accommodations would help those who need immediate access.

If their were a central DSA booth that could monitor ride wait times? Then those with a card could approach the booth inform which ride they want to ride and get a pass for that ride with the estimated wait time for the line as it stands? That way they don't have to approach the ride and leave yet still have to wait the same length of time as other patrons.

I have no idea if this sort of thing would work but just theorising options that may help.

I would have though this would be a good tweak for the current system to help those with autism not to have to see the ride. The time saved not having to walk to the ride (5 mins) could be taken into consideration when adding a return time from a central location.

 

[AndreaA]

I think it's kind of strange that some people want a way to get a return time at a ride that's all the way on the other side of the park from where the currently are.
For non-disabled guests, they cannot start waiting in the line until they actually approach the ride and enter the line.
So it seems kind of improbable that you should be able to enter the line (a virtual line) for one ride when you're across the park at a different ride.

Well they are already doing it at one park, so they should do it at the others. I hardly think the possible 5-10min a disabled person might be saving is worth quibbling about. If people are really that concerned about people in less-fortunate health situations than themselves getting such a minor advantage, then I really do think it's down to pettiness at that point. Especially since it's unlikely to be used for many cross-park rides which is where the most advantage would be. People usually tour one area at a time, especially those with low tolerance for the park environment.

 

[Wendydagny]

I think it's kind of strange that some people want a way to get a return time at a ride that's all the way on the other side of the park from where the currently are.
For non-disabled guests, they cannot start waiting in the line until they actually approach the ride and enter the line.
So it seems kind of improbable that you should be able to enter the line (a virtual line) for one ride when you're across the park at a different ride.

Because trekking across the park to get a card signed is difficult for someone with a disablity? When the DAS info was initially released, my first thought was that the new system would increase walking time for the people who have the most difficult time walking.

Yes, there are ways to get around this somewhat with good use of FP+ and a good touring plan, but many people who go to Disney don't have the maps imprinted in their brains like I do.

 

[TulipsNZ]

Disney land has three or four booths at which people can get returns times. There are complaints that people have to walk more, that they have to pass the ride they want to ride, that it takes them longer etc etc

Basically some people like it one way and some like it another and there is no pleasing everyone

Why do people complain that they have to approach a ride and leave if they able to get a return time elsewhere?

 

[Wendydagny]

Also I don't doubt that the previous poster was told the average non-disabled guest experiences 3.9 attractions per day, but tbh when I think about it that makes me really scratch my head. I can maybe see that at AK or DHS where there are fewer attractions, and many are shows with long run times. But I have a hard time believing that in regards to the magic kingdom because of its high number of short length attractions, many with reasonable waits for large parts of the day. I can't be the only one thinking that as an average is low. That means for every person following Josh's easywdw plans, there is more than one person not experiencing ANY attractions at all. am I the only one?

I guess I'd be curious how that number breaks down by park.