Resort Transportation System - The Time Has Come

I wouldn't say that Disney transport is perfect, but we've been at OKW since 2/4 and we haven't noticed any significant problems.

In fact, I just returned from MK about 30 minutes ago. Although the bus driver announced that it would take 15 minutes, it took only 10 and we got off at the 2nd stop. There was absolutely no way I could have gotten back to the resort quicker with my own car. Granted we timed it just right, but sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. I guess the bottom line is that I enjoy not having to drive while I'm here.

Plus, we've riden on at least 2 brand new buses during our week here. They even had that new bus smell. :yay:
 
Thanks for the correct info Tyler!!! I knew you would know!!!
 
Things I would like to see:

1. A way of knowing when the next bus to each destination will depart before I exit the park turnstiles.

*2. Another bus within ten minutes or an extra fast pass to each guest left behind by a full bus.

*3. More shaded bus queueing areas especially at resorts.

4. Something other than Buena Vista Drive for Disney transportation (any kind of vehicle) to travel on in the Downtown Disney area.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

* These are justifiable as "rudeness reducing measures", dealing with a subject that Disney should be addressing more.
 
My main complaint about the bus system is the number of buses available at the end of the fireworks or first thing in the mornings. Seems we wait in line as the buses load up and take off and we slowly make our way to the front of the line. Usually 2-3 trips before we can get on.

Our last trip in 2004 we stayed at SOG and used the monorail system. Love the easy of walking up and getting on a monorail. No long lines.
 

As usual, Tyler has nailed it. Monorails can (and do) handle a few high-profile routes, and it's fun to ride them. But to handle 23(?) resorts, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, 3 DTD stops, and more, flexible transport is essential. Until we have fusion-powered hovercars, that means buses. A monorail network large enough to make a dent in use of buses would not only cost several billion but might well generate just as many complaints as the buses when completed due to the inflexibility Tyler detailed.

We always rent a car, and after a bad experience in 2002 we didn't use the buses for a couple years. But last year we tried them again a couple times and had very good experiences. In fact when we took the bus to AK on a rainy Dec day, we were the only people on the bus in both directions!

One of the definite problems with the buses is uncertainty. When is the next bus to our destination coming, in 2 minutes or 20? Will we be able to fit on that bus, or will we have to wait for the next one? Will it go straight to our destination or will there be other stops? Can we go from MK to Epcot by bus? Can we go from MGM to Epcot by bus? (Yes I know the answers to the last two.)

OK if WDW has $1B laying around to spend as they please, it would be fun to add another monorail line. But for the moment there are higher priorities.
 
If anything major changes in Disney Transportation it should be to something called Personal Rapid Transit.

Imagine this, absolutely no cars or buses of any kind on Disney Property (except Campers and Motor Homes to Ft. Wilderness).

All vehicles entering property (including Magical Express from the airport, private towncars, tour buses, personal vehicles, and the Lynx public bus system) are directed to a massive parking lot. You are then assisted with luggage and directed to your own personal 6-8 passenger mini train. You scan the barcode on your reservation and you are transported directly to your resort. You then check in and either walk to your room, or in the case of the larger resorts, hop into another mini train and you are taken to your building.

Time to go to the parks, hop into the closest mini train rolling by nearest your room, scan your ticket, and punch in where you wish to go.

If a train breaks down, traffic can be routed around you and an automatic rescue vehicle can be sent to have you continue you on your way.

Somebody you don't know hops into your train behind you and makes you nervous. Hit the Giant Red 911 button, the door locks and you are wisked to the nearest emergency station.

If a family boards a train and just can't figure out the voice response and/or computer touch screen, after 15 minutes of no input, a train is diverted to an assistance station and is helped with reaching their destination.

This is just a "scratch the surface" description of what is possible with such a system.

Of course it would take lots of money to implement and is a pie in the sky wish, but you never know??

Check out the following link:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....03/9f3478bb8013f84d?q=personal+rapid+transit&

It is a thread on rec.arts.disney.parks that is rather fascinating. (It starts of with talk of the new Western Way road, but then turns into a discussion of the PRT).

Carol
 
Another family that gave up on busses here--last visit to the MK-we sat over 45 minutes for a return to AS Movies-during the same time frame-3 busses showed up for the Sports resort-with the 3rd bus arrival-we decided to take it back and hike to the movies resort from the Sports stop-not what we really wanted to do after a long day at a theme park. We took our car from that point forward.

A GPS and wait time sign would be a huge convenience, especially with young children who need to go potty at the worst time possible-you can't leave the line for fear of missing the bus-but with a board-you know how much time is available.

I agree the monorail is too expensive to expand--but relatively inexpensive technology could improve the experience of thousands who visit Disney and are dissatisfied with this part of their vacation.
 
Chip 'n Dale Express said:
As a former Disney Transport cast member, I shall chime in. For those of you who might not know, I spent 4 years in Disney Transport as both a Monorail Pilot and a Bus Driver.

Do I think it'd be a good idea to expand the monorail system? No. In fact, it would make things worse. Why you ask? Logistics! Property wasn't built to handle it. Traffic Flows are completely wrong for what a fixed guideway system does best.

Unlike most major cities, Disney has very unique transportation needs. It requires an extremely flexible and dynamic system, able to change at the drop of a hat. It also is required to be extremely simple to understand, and minimize all transfers.

-- Fixed guideway systems are NOT flexible. Disney Transport *REQUIRES* flexibility in transporting our guests. Fixed guideway systems may work GREAT in urban environments. Disney is not one of these places. We need a system that can expand and contract to current guest flow, and can be re-routed at the drop of a hat.

-- Expanding the monorail system would cost $600m to one Billion dollars. Not cheap. $65-$110 million per mile for track, not including switches or stations. $25m per train. It adds up quickly. Wouldn't we rather have a bunch of new e-ticket attractions?

-- Monorails are non-revenue generating. There would be zero return on this enormous investment. People do not come to Disney for the sole purpose of the monorail. No, really... they don't.

-- Guests want a DIRECT (and preferably NON-STOP) mode of transportation. Quite frankly, the majority could care less if it was monorail or a bus, as long as it was DIRECT. Transferring is really not an option. If you had expanded the monorail, guests would potentially have to transfer once, if not twice. That's the problem with a fixed guideway system. It works in an urban environment, because people live there, and have time to get used to and learn the system. Not at Disney. I can't begin to tell you how BAFFLING the transfer from the Resort monorail to the Epcot monorail is for many guests. They don't like it, and many would rather have the direct bus which would require no transfer, and would be much faster.

-- If one were to expand the monorail, one would want to service the highest of the congestion areas, ie: Value & Moderate Resorts. That would mean increasing the low priced rooms to a point where they would no longer serve as the great value they are currently. Park to Park travel is not great enough to warrant any expansion.

-- Walt Disney World properties are NOT designed with monorail expansion in mind. You can't just plunk down a monorail station just anywhere. And, you can't have stops as close together as you can with a bus, thus requiring guests to walk further than they already have to. Guests don't like that.

-- Diesel engines put out 80-90% less pollution than engines of just 5-10 years ago, and even newer diesel engines are even cleaner than natural gas burning engines. Newer engines get 4-5x the fuel economy as well. They are rock solid reliable, cheap to maintain, and last forever. Monorails are expensive to maintain (due to proprietary parts), and the pollution is just at a different site -- the Power Plant. (On a side note, Diesel/Electric hybrids are a great idea, but it is still in its infancy. In 5-10 years, I'm sure they will have been improved enough to be placed into heavy duty service)

--If a Monorail breaks down, the whole system is shut down. No one can pass the problem train. Hundreds of guests are inconvenienced. If a bus breaks down, it is quickly replaced by another bus. No other bus is inconvenienced. Oh, on a side note, on busy days, buses have to supplement the MK Express Monorail because it's so overcrowded.

The bottom line is this: YES, the monorail is cool. We know that. Is monorail expansion right for Walt Disney World? No. You may not like the bus, but they are currently the best way to get around Walt Disney World thanks to thier incredible flexibility. By the way, there are lots of folks out there that LOVE the bus, especially children. I used to get families on my bus all the time that just take a round trip on the bus, because thier kids want to go on one last bus ride before going home.


You really know your stuff! Thanks for posting. I loved reading your post.

I could not agree with you more about the transfer you have to make between the monorails to get to Epcot at the TTC. As mush as I love to stay at the CR because I can walk to the MK I hate that I will only be able to get to Epcot via the monorail.

The monorail to Epcot can really be a pain especialy with a stoller or slow walking senior citizens. I can't tell you how many times we have "just Missed" the other monorail. It is frustarting after a long day at the parks.

For our upcoming trip I really wanted to stay at CR again but this monorail situation is holding me back. I want to get from point A to point B the easiest way possible. We will probably choose a resort where the busues take you everywhere.
 
Chip 'n Dale Express said:
As a former Disney Transport cast member, I shall chime in. For those of you who might not know, I spent 4 years in Disney Transport as both a Monorail Pilot and a Bus Driver.

OT but...
Tyler - Where are you working now?
 
As far as I know, a Personal Rapid Transit system cannot carry all that many people per track/lane per hour. Observe Buzz Lightyear, Haunted Mansion, or any similar continuously loading ride and you can imagine what the waiting lines would be like at park opening or closing.

I did have an idea for a special kind of personal rapid transit system that used people's own cars. A lane (probably the leftmost) would be set aside for that purpose and every user's car would have to have a transponder, a toll paying account, and a mechanism that let the system decide what speed you traveled at, while you were responsible for steering. Cars would for the most part travel almost bumper to bumper. If you overrode the system's control of your gas and brake pedals unnecessarily, the toll counter would go up dramatically during the number of quarter miles the irregularity occurred. If you perturbed the system trying to get into or out of the special lane, you would also pay an extra high toll for that maneuver.
 
I haven't read this thread from the beginning, nor will I, so forgive me if this sentiment has been expressed. I have no love for mass transit, I prefer to have my own charriot at my beck and call, but on all my stays at WDW resorts I've been well pleased with the service of Disney transport in all its forms, bus, boat and monorail (thanks be to Tyler and his fellows). We've rarely had a wait of more than 10 mins. leaving a resort or more than 15 coming home. The drivers have all been courteous and some have been entertaining, a bonus, not a requirement. We used to rent a car for our trips, a vehicle which sat unused for the most part. The last three trips, and the next, a towncar will get us to and from MCO and we'll be happy to avail ourselves of the system whose time has come.

Bill From PA
 
Bill From PA said:
I haven't read this thread from the beginning, nor will I, so forgive me if this sentiment has been expressed. I have no love for mass transit, I prefer to have my own charriot at my beck and call, but on all my stays at WDW resorts I've been well pleased with the service of Disney transport in all its forms, bus, boat and monorail (thanks be to Tyler and his fellows). We've rarely had a wait of more than 10 mins. leaving a resort or more than 15 coming home. The drivers have all been courteous and some have been entertaining, a bonus, not a requirement. We used to rent a car for our trips, a vehicle which sat unused for the most part. The last three trips, and the next, a towncar will get us to and from MCO and we'll be happy to avail ourselves of the system whose time has come.

Bill From PA

You sound like my dh....so not a bus person. But he actually enjoys the buses at WDW. Says he's on vacation and if it takes him 5 mins longer to get someplace, so be it!!!
 
Chip 'n Dale Express said:
-- Diesel engines put out 80-90% less pollution than engines of just 5-10 years ago, and even newer diesel engines are even cleaner than natural gas burning engines. Newer engines get 4-5x the fuel economy as well. They are rock solid reliable, cheap to maintain, and last forever. Monorails are expensive to maintain (due to proprietary parts), and the pollution is just at a different site -- the Power Plant. (On a side note, Diesel/Electric hybrids are a great idea, but it is still in its infancy. In 5-10 years, I'm sure they will have been improved enough to be placed into heavy duty service)
I agree Tyler, both of these technologies (hybrid electric and fuel cell) are for the future, but I have seen and ridden on both and they will work. They are just not cost effective yet. WDW should spend some money now to test one or two of these vehicles in their current fleet.

As far as clean burning, ultra-low sulfur diesel has been mandated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to be phased into production starting in 2006 as a replacement fuel for the currently available EPA low sulfur. This ULSD fuel is highly refined for cleaner combustion and low emissions.

By 07/01/06, ULSD must be made available by distributors and 01/01/07, trucks and buses must be using the ULSD. No regulation yet to mandate installation of particulate filters but EPA's new emissions standards will make it difficult to operate without the filter.

When I attended a demonstration of the new system, they held a white handkerchief over the exhaust and nothing...completely white and clean.
 
I have to chime in and say I think expanding the monorail system would be a non-starter. Tyler has pretty much handled the reasons why, but basically it just boils down to being WAY too expensive for way too little done to improve the transportation options.

I have to say for the most part I don't find the buses to be all that bad. They're clean (compared to any other bus system in the world), the drivers for the most part are courteous but efficient, and there's plenty of scenery to enjoy.

I do have to say, though, that the idea of equipping the existing bus system with a GPS, or even radio, tracking system would really help guests out a bunch. Readerboards at the bus stops don't have to tell me exactly where the buses are, but they could just tell me an ETA, within 2 minutes, of when my next bus will come. GPS/radio tracking systems would do this easily, and it could be pretty much automatic. Also, this would be a useful tool for dispatchers. If a dispatcher has a remote live camera showing way too many people waiting at a particular bus stop (where other stops are empty), he could find the nearest idle bus on a map display, and direct that driver to the appropriate stop, much like air traffic control directs traffic at towered airports. Or a dispatcher could see that a certain bus stop has no one waiting, and direct the bus heading to that stop to go to one where people are waiting. Of course, this would require probably a little training by the drivers to be able to change courses on a dime. But it would be wonderful for the guests to have such a dynamic and responsive transportation system. I've priced these kinds of systems out for other kinds of fleets, and they're really not as expensive as you might think. Many school systems now use this kind of technology. All it really is is a GPS receiver/radio transponder attached to the bus, which receives its lat and long, and transmits this information, along with a bus ID, route, and any other relevant info via radio to a central hub. From there, WDW could make this info available via readerboards at each bus stop, filtering out anything security-related. But the readerboards could show which routes have buses coming and how long it would take, very easily.

As for replacing buses with more environmentally friendly ones, I couldn't agree more. However, as expensive as those buses are, they'd probably have to make do with converting some of them to run biodiesels, and replace the oldest ones as they break down with the latest in fuel-efficient buses.
 
ONCE and only once did we do the bus thing on a WDW trip. Talk about feeling like being on a cattle car - never again! We will always rent a car. But, if DH was the type that didn't want to drive, we'd be calling a cab to avoid the bus!
 
ncbyrne said:
ONCE and only once did we do the bus thing on a WDW trip. Talk about feeling like being on a cattle car - never again! We will always rent a car. But, if DH was the type that didn't want to drive, we'd be calling a cab to avoid the bus!

We always have our car, or rent one. However, we NEVER drive to the parks if we're staying at a Disney resort. Being on a cattle car? The trams feel much more like a cattle car to me than those buses ever could. I'll take the most crowded bus with the worst driver, if it saves me from having to ride those loud, smelly, crowded, fuel-inefficient trams at the TTC parking lot. And then you still have to ride that TTC-MK ferry boat that is even more crowded, or wait for that just as crowded TTC-MK monorail.

I'll stick with the bus, which takes me right next to the front gate. :thumbsup2
 












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