RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[PBB]

If you're looking at the wording on the reservation as a contract and guarantee, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. The policy for DVC is clearly after 4. Odds are you'll be in by that time but not always. I hope it works out for you.

Apparently it is not clear that it is after 4 pm if there is a conflict between the thousands of reservation confirmations they send to members and what it states on their website,LOL. DVC produces then mails the confirmation of the reservation and this is the document that spells out the terms and condition of the stay. So, yes......it is a binding contract. What if the member doesn't have the Internet or doesn't go to the site they would have no idea of the after 4 pm, correct?

What's next? DVC placing verbage that room reservations dates are subject to change on some obscure page on the website. So, upon arrival they can tell you .......oh we are still full of cash paying guests so come back tomorrow!

DVC has plenty of notice of the expected occupancy and daily turn around. It is unprofessional to play word games with a guest/owner at the front desk.

 

[that's nice]

I've read through this entire thread over the last few days....

We own resale purchased Jan 2014. It is scary seeing the new restrictions because DVC has always grandfathered in previous buyers. What is to say their next 'tier' is taking away 'member benefits' from all resale purchasers regardless of when the contract was purchased? Most of the 'benefits' aren't really benefits to me except for the $200 off APs which saves our family $1000 per year.

One thing I didn't see brought up in all these posts is what will a new resale purchaser see on the website. Will the member perks be there dangled in their face? Will there be a separate website for these purchasers?

 

[ziravan]

I've read through this entire thread over the last few days....

We own resale purchased Jan 2014. It is scary seeing the new restrictions because DVC has always grandfathered in previous buyers. What is to say their next 'tier' is taking away 'member benefits' from all resale purchasers regardless of when the contract was purchased? Most of the 'benefits' aren't really benefits to me except for the $200 off APs which saves our family $1000 per year.

One thing I didn't see brought up in all these posts is what will a new resale purchaser see on the website. Will the member perks be there dangled in their face? Will there be a separate website for these purchasers?

The point is to create a distinction for direct sales.

There's no upside in not grandfathering existing contracts. That does nothing to further future sales.

There's quite a bit of downside, though, in jerking around tens of thousands of your MF payers.

I wouldn't be too worried about them repealing their decision to grandfather. It actually makes much more sense for them TO grandfather.

 

[Brian Noble]

There's no upside in not grandfathering existing contracts. That does nothing to further future sales.

It's been done by other systems---because some of those folks who lose perks will add on in part to get them back.

 

[LisaS]

One thing I didn't see brought up in all these posts is what will a new resale purchaser see on the website. Will the member perks be there dangled in their face? Will there be a separate website for these purchasers?

I expect they will add some information to the list of perks to state that they apply to direct purchasers and to those who purchased resale prior to 4/4/2016. It will be similar to the information provided about perks that are not available to those who purchased resale after March 2011. They want these folks to purchase from Disney so they will make sure they know about the perks they could get if they purchase an add on directly from Disney.

ETA: Here is the text on the "Member Benefits" page of the members website. Note the last sentence:

You should not purchase or add on real estate interest in a Disney Vacation Club Resort in reliance upon the continued availability or renewal or extension of these offers.These offers may only be available to Members at various times and may or may not be renewed or extended. Membership Extras, such as vacation options in the Disney and Concierge Collections, certain discounts, offers, and special events are incidental benefits. These incidental benefits are subject to change or termination without notice, may require the payment of a fee and cannot be combined with any other offers or promotions. Membership Extras are also subject to availability and block–out dates may apply, including high periods of demand such as Christmas and New Year’s Day. To receive any Membership Extras, purchasers must present a valid Disney Vacation Club Membership Card along with a corresponding valid photo ID. Disney and Concierge Collections options are not available for ownership interests not purchased directly from Disney Vacation Development, Inc. after March 21, 2011, and, effective April 4, 2016, Members who do not purchase an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras.

 

[jerseyduke]

Just got back from The World, so missed a lot of action on this thread, but the one thing that struck me is resale prices of the Polynesian (and to a lesser degree VGF).

The ASKING PRICE for the current Poly resale contracts seems to be in the mid 150s on average.

If I would benefit from the now removed perks (particularly APs), then it is now well worth it to buy Poly Direct in my eyes.

 

[Dean]

Apparently it is not clear that it is after 4 pm if there is a conflict between the thousands of reservation confirmations they send to members and what it states on their website,LOL. DVC produces then mails the confirmation of the reservation and this is the document that spells out the terms and condition of the stay. So, yes......it is a binding contract. What if the member doesn't have the Internet or doesn't go to the site they would have no idea of the after 4 pm, correct?

What's next? DVC placing verbage that room reservations dates are subject to change on some obscure page on the website. So, upon arrival they can tell you .......oh we are still full of cash paying guests so come back tomorrow!

DVC has plenty of notice of the expected occupancy and daily turn around. It is unprofessional to play word games with a guest/owner at the front desk.

I don't see listing 4 on the confirmation and after 4 as the policy as a particular conflict. You now know what the policy is so you should be prepared for the possibility. Put another way, if you're after 4 to get into the room, you'd have no valid complaint based on the wording of the email confirmation. The word game is making a distinction between the 2 given the information available. I don't disagree that it shouldn't be that way and I've said many times it's fixable and should be fixed but that's the landscape at the present time. The reality is that even if it were truly 4 rather than after 4, things happen and it cannot be guaranteed. Just like it's possible you'd show up and wouldn't have a room for various reasons.

 

[Dean]

The point is to create a distinction for direct sales.

There's no upside in not grandfathering existing contracts. That does nothing to further future sales.

There's quite a bit of downside, though, in jerking around tens of thousands of your MF payers.

I wouldn't be too worried about them repealing their decision to grandfather. It actually makes much more sense for them TO grandfather.

There is downside in grandfathering and downside in not grandfathering. They want to push people toward retail AND away from resale. They also want those who don't have certain benefits to add on retail. DVD and DVC are separate entities so who pays the maint fees isn't a major issue. If one quits paying, DVD or DVC (depending on mortgage or not) takes it back. If one sells, someone else pays the maint fees. The main question in upsetting TOO many people is that it may affect retail sales based on word of mouth and negative publicity. IMO this is more hype than reality but regardless, DVD can sell if they want though they might have to do so more aggressively to hit sales in certain situation. Systems normally grandfather so that you don't lose what you currently have but usually don't grandfather future options or program additions.

 

[ziravan]

Just got back from The World, so missed a lot of action on this thread, but the one thing that struck me is resale prices of the Polynesian (and to a lesser degree VGF).

The ASKING PRICE for the current Poly resale contracts seems to be in the mid 150s on average.

If I would benefit from the now removed perks (particularly APs), then it is now well worth it to buy Poly Direct in my eyes.

Especially since with the current incentive through Oct, direct Poly points are in the mid 150's.

Poly resale is going to drop into the 130s to sell.

 

[skier_pete]

I guess I don't really get the 4 PM debate. Every hotel /Timeshare has a check-in time. However, they all

Just got back from The World, so missed a lot of action on this thread, but the one thing that struck me is resale prices of the Polynesian (and to a lesser degree VGF).

The ASKING PRICE for the current Poly resale contracts seems to be in the mid 150s on average.

If I would benefit from the now removed perks (particularly APs), then it is now well worth it to buy Poly Direct in my eyes.

Well, I would already be buying direct at that price point - even before the discount removal. I am a big believer in resale, but that's buying it at an advantage. Paying $85-100 a point versus $165 or whatever is a big price difference. $150 versus $165 is not significant enough to deal directly with Disney. (You are talking $1500 on a 150 point contract.)

 

[that's nice]

If one quits paying, DVD or DVC (depending on mortgage or not) takes it back. If one sells, someone else pays the maint fees. The main question in upsetting TOO many people is that it may affect retail sales based on word of mouth and negative publicity.

If DVD/DVC wants to stop or limit the resales, and people cannot sell back and have to walk away, I would imagine that would negatively affect what is brought in for dues. Couldn't that affect all of us with a significant rise in dues to cover what would be sitting in limbo waiting to be sold? Wouldn't that bring down the value of all of our contracts since there wouldn't be a secondary market? (I amusing this is all a hypothetical since real estate laws apply to timeshares)

 

[skier_pete]

If DVD/DVC wants to stop or limit the resales, and people cannot sell back and have to walk away, I would imagine that would negatively affect what is brought in for dues. Couldn't that affect all of us with a significant rise in dues to cover what would be sitting in limbo waiting to be sold? Wouldn't that bring down the value of all of our contracts since there wouldn't be a secondary market? (I amusing this is all a hypothetical since real estate laws apply to timeshares)

Disney doesn't necessarily want to limit resales. They want to differentiate direct buying. I am sure they are figuring into the whole equation what affect they think this will have on resale values. Resale values will not drop to zero or even near zero. My bet is that they may drop slightly, but probably only in the short term. You are right that Disney wants a somewhat strong resale market, but it's not THAT important. Most direct buyers aren't thinking about "how much can I get when I sell this". If that was the case, no one would buy a timeshare ever. In fact, lower resale prices benefit Disney in one major way - if they decide they want to stock more of the other resorts for resale, lower prices are advantageous to them on ROFR. Resale prices are low, they buy back more contracts, and turn them around at $125 a point. They just don't do that THAT much because they mostly want to sell the new properties, but if you think about it, they could easily make a TON of money buying back contracts and re-selling them at a higher price because they still include the perks.

 

[jerseyduke]

Especially since with the current incentive through Oct, direct Poly points are in the mid 150's.

Poly resale is going to drop into the 130s to sell.

I would think even further. If with current incentives, Poly points come out to mid 150s, considering the recent events, I would want the Poly to be in the area of 120 per point.
IF you need the perks, a family of 4, that is 800$ per year in AP discounts alone.
Add onto that you can specify UY, break contracts into smaller ones, etc.

(Of course that is all dependent on IF you need/want the perks)

Well, I would already be buying direct at that price point - even before the discount removal. I am a big believer in resale, but that's buying it at an advantage. Paying $85-100 a point versus $165 or whatever is a big price difference. $150 versus $165 is not significant enough to deal directly with Disney. (You are talking $1500 on a 150 point contract.)

Agreed. I so think this new policy hits poly resale prices the most.


Interestingly I just got an email from my broker saying I am grandfathered in on my new purchase. It was slightly unique in that it passed ROFR in Feb, but closing is not until the end of May. That would be nice. While I do have a direct contract as well, the thought crossed my mind "What if i needed/wanted to sell that one(the direct one)"

 

[supersnoop]

IF you need the perks, a family of 4, that is 800$ per year in AP discounts alone.

If you use it every year. I think many DVC owners spread out and bunch their trips so they can purchase AP's less often.

 

[Novakm]

I bought a membership in a club that included a real estate interest in the club. When I bought it bot the real estate and membership were fully transferable. Now they are not. Feels wrong.

I'd be less upset if they just reduced club benefits. They said they could in the sales lit. They never said they reserve the right to make membership non transferable.

There are better ways to add value for direct purchasers. For example they could have built a PVB owners lounge in Epcot.

Even more effective would have been to adjust points needed instead of price. Sell the points at close to same price as resale, but charge more points per night at the newer resorts.

Instead, they chose to eliminate my right to transfer membership. I bet a hungry lawyer could make a few bucks on this one.

 

[Dean]

If DVD/DVC wants to stop or limit the resales, and people cannot sell back and have to walk away, I would imagine that would negatively affect what is brought in for dues. Couldn't that affect all of us with a significant rise in dues to cover what would be sitting in limbo waiting to be sold? Wouldn't that bring down the value of all of our contracts since there wouldn't be a secondary market? (I amusing this is all a hypothetical since real estate laws apply to timeshares)

Dues are us, not DVD. DVD is OK with reducing our value.

I bought a membership in a club that included a real estate interest in the club. When I bought it bot the real estate and membership were fully transferable. Now they are not. Feels wrong.

I'd be less upset if they just reduced club benefits. They said they could in the sales lit. They never said they reserve the right to make membership non transferable.

There are better ways to add value for direct purchasers. For example they could have built a PVB owners lounge in Epcot.

Even more effective would have been to adjust points needed instead of price. Sell the points at close to same price as resale, but charge more points per night at the newer resorts.

Instead, they chose to eliminate my right to transfer membership. I bet a hungry lawyer could make a few bucks on this one.

I doubt there's any traction for legal action. The POS states not to buy anticipating rental or resale return because you're in competition with DVD.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Regarding the 4pm and after 4pm debate.......

I could care less what a website states that can change in a second. I only care what the reservation states because that is binding. We are going to OKW in 5 days and I looked at my reservation and the follow up information from Disney Destinations and both clearly state the following:q

I'm not certain anymore what they run thru if you book calling in but I know that when you book online, that little section that you have to do a check box saying that you agree to the terms and conditions, says that check in is after 4PM. Being you are signing off on and agreeing to the terms and conditions I don't think it matters what comes printed on the confirmation.

 

[JimMIA]

I bought a membership in a club that included a real estate interest in the club. When I bought it bot the real estate and membership were fully transferable. Now they are not. Feels wrong.

I'd be less upset if they just reduced club benefits. They said they could in the sales lit. They never said they reserve the right to make membership non transferable.

There are better ways to add value for direct purchasers. For example they could have built a PVB owners lounge in Epcot.

Even more effective would have been to adjust points needed instead of price. Sell the points at close to same price as resale, but charge more points per night at the newer resorts.

Instead, they chose to eliminate my right to transfer membership. I bet a hungry lawyer could make a few bucks on this one.

No, actually, you bought a timeshare that calls itself a club -- and nothing unique about that...see Hilton Grand Vacation Club, Club Wyndham, etc, etc, etc. It's a timeshare.

Like most timeshares (and thousands of other businesses), DVC had/has a bundle of customer-loyalty benefits we call "perks."

Those perks come and go, but whatever they are, they are part and parcel with your timeshare ownership. They are not separate benefits that you can sell or transfer to another person independently of the timeshare.

Nothing DVC has done has in any way prevented you from selling your timeshare if you choose to do so. Everything you bought is still "fully transferable." Your ownership rights have not changed one bit -- just the "perks."

 

[PBB]

I'm not certain anymore what they run thru if you book calling in but I know that when you book online, that little section that you have to do a check box saying that you agree to the terms and conditions, says that check in is after 4PM. Being you are signing off on and agreeing to the terms and conditions I don't think it matters what comes printed on the confirmation.

The online check in under the box that asks what time you want to check in states the following "Resort Check In Begins at 4:00 PM". It does not say after........ If it doesn't matter what a document says that is sent through the mail from DVC why send it? Reservation or travel documents have been around a lot longer than any website.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The online check in under the box that asks what time you want to check in states the following "Resort Check In Begins at 4:00 PM". It does not say after........ If it doesn't matter what a document says that is sent through the mail from DVC why send it? Reservation or travel documents have been around a lot longer than any website.

Not online check in. That of course is asking you when you plan on arriving.

The booking says after 4 under the terms and conditions that you must select a check box saying you have read and agree to them. I looked at it 13 hours ago. If you don't check that box you don't get your reservation.