republicans vote down minimum wage again

Tazicket said:
To be fair, minimum wage jobs are not designed to support entire families. ::putting on extra strong flame suit:: A significant number of people who are trying to support families on a minimum wage salary are only doing so because they are not qualified for anything else. The reasons for this are varied, but in many cases I'm sure it comes down to the person having not paid attention in school, not trying to better themselves or their education, and now they are reaping the benefits (or lack thereof). I feel sorry for the children and it is regrettable that there are people in this situation. At the same time, if they are in that situation due to their own apathy, laziness, and lack of motivation to educate themselves while they were in school, then I should not have to foot the bill for their incompetence.

As a previous poster mentioned, better adult education courses are needed for those who now truly desire to improve themselves. This will always be a case of needing to teach people how to fish instead of handing them fish everyday.

Those of you who want to put your money where your mouth is are free to donate to adult education centers, homeless shelters, etc... That is your philanthropic right. But as a society, I should not be forced to contribute more than my fair share in order to support a group of people who refuse to try to support themselves. Those that want to work to make their lives better should be given every opportunity to do so, but those who expect us to give them everything for free with no responsibility of their own do not deserve one red cent.


Not true I know people who have had a college education who can't get a job that pays more than just above minimum wage. I have an associate's degree and my highest paying job was $6.15 an hour at a local newspaper as a computer graphic layout designer. If I were to move to a big city I might be able to get better pay but the cost of living would be higher than it is here. A little more money isn't worth the raise in crime rate that I would have to place myself and my family in.
 
scifihippie said:
I found this interesting. Princeton study that finds correlation with higher minimum wage and higher employment.
Princeton Study




So, the working mom checking you out at Walmart doesn't deserve to be paid a living wage? Or the waitress serving you dinner? Insulting these hard working Americans and calling them lazy is uncalled for. Have you ever had to work a minimum wage job? I did while putting myself through college. It's hard and these folks working them deserve to be able to support their families! So, should everyone "better themselves" and we'll have no more restaurants or retail establishments b/c no one is available to work there because they all have better jobs?

Exactly - you worked yourself through college, not to raise a family. That is what minimum wage jobs are best suited for - supplemental income and minor assistance..

Nowhere in my post did I say that EVERYONE working a minimum wage job is lazy - that was you putting words into my mouth. I said that "a significant number" of them were not qualified for anything else - that does not mean they are all lazy. I then qualified by saying that many of that "significant number" - a percentage of a percentage - were actually lazy and didn't try to better themselves while they were in high school, etc. I went to high school (and college) and sat next to those lazy people every day in class who didn't care a lick for education and had no desire to learn anything for themselves. What do they deserve? More? Why?

As for "So, should everyone "better themselves" and we'll have no more restaurants or retail establishments b/c no one is available to work there because they all have better jobs?" - well, yes, everyone should try to better themselves. Are we going to run out of high school or college students to fill those service jobs? And if everyone is getting better jobs, there will be more money in the economy to spend, and those restaurant positions can pay more money (and they'll get better tips, or should if people aren't cheapskates with their new money) and the people who aren't qualified for one of the better jobs will have a slightly better life because their service job will be paying them more money.

Taking all of the money off of the top and throwing it willy nilly at the bottom of the pile will not make anyone rich or happy - in the end it will only make everyone poor because many people will not be responsible for what they are given and will not do anything to give back.

As with everything in this world, you have to pick your battles, and giving away money to people who have no desire to work or better themselves is, in the end, NOT going to be a service to society, it will merely drain funds from more useful endeavors and waste it on the wasteful. If the people do want to better themselves, then by all means - give them a hand up, not a hand out.
 
In my opinion, there shouldn't be a federal wage because of the economic diversity within the US. If you don't like the minimum wage, take it up at the state level.

When are we going to start questioning why STATE LEGISLATURES don't hike their own minimum wage requirements? (Thumbs up to Washington state)

We seem to give state legislatures a pass on this thinking it should be a federal issue. IMO, this is short-sighted by the voters. $9 per hour wouldn't meet the needs of the people living in the NYC suburbia area, yet in another are of another state, people would give their first born for that wage.
 
I don't think raising the minimum wage equals "Taking all of the money off of the top and throwing it willy nilly at the bottom of the pile". There is evidence to prove that higher minimum wage makes the economy stronger. Look at states that have a higher minimum wage. Vermont for example, has had their economy improve since raising the minimum wage.

We are not "giving away money to people who have no desire to work". They are working. It is not a handout, it's a job.

Aside from your argument that the lazy portion of those who make minimum wage don't deserve more. Shouldn't the wage at least increase with inflation? The businesses are charging more for their goods/services, yet are still paying their employees wages from 10 years ago.

I just see you as stereotyping " significant portion" who work minimum wage jobs. Yes, I do think there are lazy people in society, I disagree that it's a significant portion of those who work for low wages.
 

In theory, raising minimum wage will help America's poorest workers. In theory, it'll give unskilled workers a larger paycheck, more stability, and it'll put them over the poverty line. In theory, it'll allow them to work instead of being on public assistance, which'll help all of us.

In reality, raising minimum wage will hurt all Americans. In reality, employers -- especially small businesses -- won't be able to pay the higher wages. So they'll either hire illegals to work "under the table" or they'll go out of business. Either way, the minimum-wage worker loses. Without small businesses, the large conglomorates will own "all" the economy. Just to throw out one example: In the 1980s three large bookstores started buying up smaller chains. Books prices have almost doubled since then. The result: All Americans pay more for the same products, and everyone loses. Once this happens in more and more businesses, everyone may be making $7, $8, or even $15 per hour, but the buying power of that $7, $8, or $15 will be LESS than the buying power of today's $5.15. And buying power is what really matters -- not the numbers on the paycheck.

Does it sound heartless to deny pay increases to the poorest Americans? Only to those who live in the world of theory instead of the world of reality. We need more programs to train people who want better jobs to qualify for higher wages -- we don't need to assign higher wages to low-skill jobs.
 
Tazicket said:
All well and good for Washington State. It is a better educated state. In a place like Florida where there are many millions more people in general, and many more of a very low education level, it would have a greater impact. Then again, many of the migrant workers and illegal immigrants in Florida (and other places) make a heck of a lot LESS than minimum wage - which is a sin unto itself and a different story (and thread).

Florida's minimum wage is $6.40.
 
drakethib said:
Not trying to start a political debate but I don't recall seeing or hearing about any of the Democrats in Congress not accepting the raise or writing a check for the delta of their raise to the Treasury Department to protest this money. Maybe I am wrong on this, someone may possibly be able to correct me.


Sorry, but both republicans and democrats look at for number one. They are all crooks IMHO>

I agree 100% :teeth:
 
I personally think that minimum wage should be tied to inflation. And as the economy grows so should real wages. After all, it's the trickle down effect that we've always heard so much about. As the top gets richer so should the bottom.

Besides, someone has to do the jobs that are poorly paid. It's fine to say that everyone should be highly educated and in management but that's just not possible.
 
Mr.MouseFan said:
But they have no problem voting YES to their own salary increases. I say we pay them $5.15 an hour and see how they make ends meet. :furious:
That's an entirely different problem, but I agree that congress is altogether too quick to vote themselves yet another raise (or benefit, or loophole, or whatever). The ones who do their jobs well work very hard, and they have to maintain a home in DC as well as their home state; they deserve to be compensated with a professional salary. However, they have lost all sense of reality lately, and I think they should be "taken down a notch".
 
Planogirl said:
I personally think that minimum wage should be tied to inflation. And as the economy grows so should real wages. After all, it's the trickle down effect that we've always heard so much about. As the top gets richer so should the bottom.

Besides, someone has to do the jobs that are poorly paid. It's fine to say that everyone should be highly educated and in management but that's just not possible.
The minimum wage IS tied to inflation. But it's a cause-and-effect thing: if you raise minimum wage, you'll also see inflation in prices.

Everyone can't work in management, but that's not the only field that pays well. There are plenty of high-skill, high-salary jobs sitting unfilled right now because of lack of qualified workers. Many of these jobs require only an associate's degree -- something that's within the reach of the vast majority of Americans who want to improve their job skills.
 
All they need to do is amend so that it DOES NOT apply to those under 18. Sorry, I had to work my way up and so should every other teenagers.
 
Alicnwondrln said:
I did a paper for school on this last year and I am surprised that it is constantly voted down. How can a person live off of 5.15 an hour.

this is a great article

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republican-controlled Senate smothered a proposed election-year increase in the minimum wage Wednesday, rejecting Democratic claims that it was past time to boost the $5.15 hourly pay floor that has been in effect for nearly a decade.

The 52-46 vote was eight short of the 60 needed for approval and came one day after House Republican leaders made clear they do not intend to allow a vote on the issue, fearing it might pass.

Sixty votes were required because the plan was proposed as an amendment to an unrelated defense bill.

The Senate vote marked the ninth time since 1997 that Democrats there have proposed -- and Republicans have blocked -- a stand-alone increase in the minimum wage. The debate fell along predictable lines.

"Americans believe that no one who works hard for a living should have to live in poverty. A job should lift you out of poverty, not keep you in it," said Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Massachusetts. He said a worker paid $5.15 an hour would earn $10,700 a year, "almost $6,000 below the poverty line for a family of three."

Republicans said a minimum wage increase would wind up hurting the low-wage workers that Democrats said they want to help.

"For every increase you make in the minimum wage, you will cost some of them their jobs," said Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Georgia.

He described the clash as a "classic debate between two very different philosophies. One philosophy that believes in the marketplace, the competitive system ... and entrepreneurship. And secondly is the argument that says the government knows better and that topdown mandates work."

The measure drew the support of 43 Democrats, eight Republicans and one independent. Four of those eight Republicans are seeking re-election in the fall.

Democrats had conceded in advance that this attempt to raise the minimum wage would fare no better than their previous attempts. At the same time, they have made clear in recent days they hope to gain support in the coming midterm elections by stressing the issue. Organized labor supports the legislation, and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Connecticut, said that contrary to some impressions, most minimum wage workers are adults, not teenagers, and many of them are women.

"When the Democrats control the Senate, one of the first pieces of legislation we'll see is an increase in the minimum wage," said Kennedy.

His proposal would have increased the minimum wage to $5.85 beginning 60 days after the legislation was enacted; to $6.55 one year later; and to $7.25 a year after that. He said inflation has eroded the value of the current $5.15 minimum wage by 20 percent.

With the help of a few rebellious Republicans, House Democrats on the House Appropriations Committee succeeded in attaching a minimum wage increase last week to legislation providing funding for federal social programs. Fearing that the House would pass the measure with the increase intact, the GOP leadership swiftly decided to sidetrack the entire bill.

"I am opposed to it, and I think a vast majority of our (rank and file) is opposed to it," House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Tuesday.

Pressed by reporters, he said, "There are limits to my willingness to just throw anything out on the floor."

While Democrats depend on organized labor to win elections, Republicans are closely aligned with business interests that oppose any increase in the federal wage floor or would like changes in the current system.

Sen. Mike Enzi, R-Wyoming, chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, offered an alternative that proposed a minimum wage increase of $1.10 over 18 months, in two steps.

The increase was coupled with a variety of provisions offering regulatory or tax relief to small businesses, including one to exempt enterprises with less than $1 million in annual receipts from the federal wage and hour law entirely. The current exemption level is $500,000, and a Republican document noted the amount had "lagged behind inflation."

Additionally, Republicans proposed a system of optional "flextime" for workers, a step that Enzi said would allow employees, at their discretion, to work more than 40 hours one week in exchange for more time off the next. Unions generally oppose such initiatives, and the Republican plan drew 45 votes, with 53 in opposition.

Nine Senate Republicans voted against both proposals.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Republicans acting just like Republicans. I'm shocked, just shocked. :rolleyes1
 
Free4Life11 said:
All they need to do is amend so that it DOES NOT apply to those under 18. Sorry, I had to work my way up and so should every other teenagers.

Call me old-fashioned, but I believe in "equal pay for equal work". Arbitrarilly setting an age for a wage increase is discrimnatory and violates "equal protection under the law".

And would someone please post the signficant study proving that raising the minimum wage causes inflation or job losses.
 
MrsPete said:
Everyone can't work in management, but that's not the only field that pays well. There are plenty of high-skill, high-salary jobs sitting unfilled right now because of lack of qualified workers. Many of these jobs require only an associate's degree -- something that's within the reach of the vast majority of Americans who want to improve their job skills.
Please let me know what those jobs are. Seriously, I'm personally sick of dead end jobs. :confused3

I just think that people who make more, spend more and THAT is what's supposed to be good for the economy. Someone mentioned big bookstores swallowing little bookstores and the price of books going up. Those big stores also pay over minimum wage so it seemed to work, at least for those workers.
 
I am a cm at the World and I make just a little over $7 an hour. Not because that is starting pay, but because I have been there long enough to have been given a raise and promoted to a department that pays a little better.

I am not stupid. I am not lazy. I am not an immigrant. I am a hard working person that does everything I can to bring magic to life for all those people that come to WDW for just that. I LOVE my job and I am VERY good at it.

Now - why is it again that I do not deserve a living wage?
 
This sickens me. The GOP is looking out for business as usual. It has always been the conservatives who have worked for big business.The majority of the lower class is not white. They are minorities. These minorities, growing up in ghettos, are told to rise up. Fighting through poverty and violence and horrible school systems, they are supposed to go to college. nevermind they can't afford it, thats what affirmitive action is for. Yeah right. So, the majority, not having a college education, are supposed to live on minimum wage. It should be enough for them and a partner. If they have kids, its their fault. They must be crazy to want to create another person to love. And people wonder why the crime rate is up.
 
PoohnPglet said:
Now - why is it again that I do not deserve a living wage?


Noone has said you don't deserve it.

But if the National minimum wage were even $20 an hour--everything else would just rise in price as a result. Simple supply and demand. You have more money to spend--you spend it...supply decreases, demand increases, prices rise.

A minimum wage will never guarantee you buying power at all.

Also--should they raise the minimum wage that much, while you personally due to CM benefits wouldn't be affected by rising ticket prices, the rest of the paying guests would be affected in such a way that despite a rise in minimum wage, Disney has become even less affordable.

You could also apply that to the cost of goods at the grocery store, or even basic utilities as well.

I don't think there is a true *minimum* living wage. It's impossible.

There is a true living wage--it is up to the worker to try and achieve that on their own, but not something the government can ever guarantee unless they place a ceiling on prices. And even if they did place a ceiling, then the employer will just employee less people in order to meet payroll.

So then who then is the one that deserves to have their job eliminated so that can happen for you?

(And I'm aware you aren't asking for more than double your current pay--but it stands to bare that a *living* wage would require a significant increase of more than a few cents an hour.)
 
$5.15 a Hour is a NATIONAL DISGRACE!!!!!

Unemployment & Welfare pay MORE than that!

The argument that will will hurt businesses is such a CROCK! If I business is that shaking to begin with its going to go under anyway!

Just because someone does not have an 'almighty degree' is no reason to to subject them to nothing more the financial slavery!!!!

Shame on us for allowing this! And Shame fully on the Repbulicans for NOT supporting this.
 




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