Replacement for GAC

[BigAlsGal]

I am wondering the same thing. We are taking my mom in January. She has very limited vision and no depth perception. We just need light on for some of the rides and sidewalks to stop so she can load/unload. How does this work for vision impaired?

Couldn't she stand in the regular queue?

 

[Objectivity]

I have reread your post many times. I still don't understand what you mean/ ie, what is your point?

my husband has early onset macular degeneration. it is getting worse and worse. he can't see in the dark (or the "dim") the lines have gotten worse every trip for him.
oops, I made a pun there... cause "trip" is what he does through the entire queue.. it's dark it' winds aback and forth... but not always in a predictable pattern.

the impatient people behind us step on our heels. he bumps into things and gets hurt and bruised. and he used to LOVE manyof the quese, feels like we miss a lot by bypassing the standby line.. we often would rather do the regular line than get a fast pass if the wait isn't too long, so we don't miss the "story line, etc."
but. what is.. is. it is a danger, not safe, for him to try to navigate through many of the queues.

so what is the "loophole" you are speaking of?

I don't think loophole is the right word, even though it's the word I used. I didn't mean it as a negative, although it came across that way.

One of joys of Disney is that they try to be accommodating to all people and address all their needs. That also creates a system that can be abused, which is why they are looking to update and improve.

One of the key components of the ADA is integration with the mainstream experience as much as realistically possible. For someone who is vision-impaired, as you are aware, that would mean waiting in line, but a line without the stairs and other obstacles that can cause difficulty.

From what I've read, the new system is a more flexible fast pass which ensures those with needs have those needs accommodated while not putting them at the front of every line at the expense of longer lines for those without needs.

I think the concept sounds good on paper for those who have children with Autism or similar disorders. They can wait the time of the line without being in line.

The "loophole" I referred to was to question whether the new policy would be a step back for those who are visually impaired or have other non-visible physical disabilities because it takes them out of the adapted mainstream experience in exchange for a system that's "separate-but-equal" in order to meet the needs of people with a disability they don't have. I've been told my wife who is legally blind "wasn't really handicapped" because she didn't have a wheelchair. To have a one-size-fits all policy like this feels like it could come across as something similar. It all depends on implementation.

Also, the more I read, the more I want to learn about how these kiosks will be implemented. Does it allow someone with needs to scheduled several times at once or only one at at time? If one at a time, what are the ramifications of having to go from ride to kiosk to ride to kiosk to ride to kiosk all day? That creates an impediment that those without needs don't have to face. It would create a system where you must wait in a line to get a piece of paper to tell you when you would be done waiting in another line at which point you're allowed to get in a line.

 

[AndreaA]

Couldn't she stand in the regular queue?

Didn't you read the post about vision impairment above? Often times the regular lines are very twisty, dark and with things jutting out. All of those would cause problems for someone with limited vision.

 

[smidgy]

Couldn't she stand in the regular queue?

I'm sure the poster's mom would have no problem "standing" in the regular queue. now walking forward, no left, no right, oops backwards. this way, no, that way..ie. NAVIGATING.. in the dark (even with someone trying to lead you and direct you) inevitably has THIS result:

toe is stubbed, knee is banged.. oops shin banged. heel pulled out of shoe by teenager wanting you to go faster.
trip on bottom of post, fall into bar going across as queue turns left. ouch! forehead hurts. soft turn to right, but "rocks" ar jutting out , banging into forehead which is now bleeding. rats.
people behind even more impatient. let 20 people go ahead of you.
eventually get to the spot where the line stops. those 20 impatient people are stopped, just as you are. only they are all now ahead of you. and you are sore.
but you are right. no problem with "standing" in the regular queue.

 

[BigAlsGal]

Didn't you read the post about vision impairment above? Often times the regular lines are very twisty, dark and with things jutting out. All of those would cause problems for someone with limited vision.

Well I guess it would be a problem if you sent a person through the queue alone but I would assume in most situations family would help to navigate a perilous queue. "Mom watch your step here, watch this turn here." I'm sure even through an alternate entrance there would still be some hand holding and verbal warnings. I guess I don't understand how the regular line just isn't doable with a visual impairment.

 

[BigAlsGal]

I'm sure the poster's mom would have no problem "standing" in the regular queue. now walking forward, no left, no right, oops backwards. this way, no, that way..ie. NAVIGATING.. in the dark (even with someone trying to lead you and direct you) inevitably has THIS result:

toe is stubbed, knee is banged.. oops shin banged. heel pulled out of shoe by teenager wanting you to go faster.
trip on bottom of post, fall into bar going across as queue turns left. ouch! forehead hurts. soft turn to right, but "rocks" ar jutting out , banging into forehead which is now bleeding. rats.
people behind even more impatient. let 20 people go ahead of you.
eventually get to the spot where the line stops. those 20 impatient people are stopped, just as you are. only they are all now ahead of you. and you are sore.
but you are right. no problem with "standing" in the regular queue.

All this could easily happen out in the park too. Maybe a wheelchair might be a better answer if tripping, falling, or other injuries are eminent.

 

[smidgy]

Couldn't she stand in the regular queue?

Well I guess it would be a problem if you sent a person through the queue alone but I would assume in most situations family would help to navigate a perilous queue. "Mom watch your step here, watch this turn here." I'm sure even through an alternate entrance there would still be some hand holding and verbal warnings. I guess I don't understand how the regular line just isn't doable with a visual impairment.

you are correct . you definitely do NOT undersatnd. I am the wife who walks the visually impaired husband through the lines. you can't see for someone else. as much as I try to "direct" him and verbally say "left, right, soft right, etc etc. all of the above happens. all the time.
usually the line isn't wide enough to walk side by side. I can pull him along like a pull toy, or stand behind and try to guidehim . it's awful it's unsafe. period.
and the alterante entrance does often have the same problems, but for not as long. OR, instead of using the FP entrance, enter through the exit.

 

[BigAlsGal]

you are correct . you definitely do NOT undersatnd. I am the wife who walks the visually impaired husband through the lines. you can't see for someone else. as much as I try to "direct" him and verbally say "left, right, soft right, etc etc. all of the above happens. all the time.
usually the line isn't wide enough to walk side by side. I can pull him along like a pull toy, or stand behind and try to guidehim . it's awful it's unsafe. period.
and the alterante entrance does often have the same problems, but for not as long. OR, instead of using the FP entrance, enter through the exit.

Then I would assume the new system would be the same for the visually impaired. You would just have to wait your turn and take the alternate entrance.

 

[smidgy]

All this could easily happen out in the park too. Maybe a wheelchair might be a better answer if tripping, falling, or other injuries are eminent.

being a Christian woman, I can't say what I would like to.


blind and visually impaired people don't need wheelchairs. my husband and I walk through the park at our pace. not the same as in a queue.
i have no problem waiting for a return time. the visually disabled have dif. needs thatn the autistic, which seems to be the focus on this thread. I was just responding to another post.
providing a way to get TO the ride safely definitely falls under the rules for ADA. period!.
I

 

[smidgy]

Then I would assume the new system would be the same for the visually impaired. You would just have to wait your turn and take the alternate entrance.

as I SAID, I was responding to another post. that poster responded. even so, as you stated, there still may be safety concerns. the exit might, in many cases, be the best alternative (as opposed to the FP line).

there also was a stamp on the GAC for "front seating in shows". I am hoping this will still be available with the new system.

often "handicapped" seating is designed with wheelchairs in mind, not visual impairments. at Nemo, the musical, for example, the seating is way at the top. my husband would not be able to see the show from there.

we will have to wait and see. we will be in DL (for the first time) when the change takes place there. oct. 9.

 

[englishrose47]

I am going next month with a group of Developmentally Disbaled , each year the groups change and it is new set of challenges . I know I have one who walks with a cane another who has some severe vision problems , now we have never met these folks before usually , so I am trying to picture me explaining needs of people I don't know well and what sort of asistance they need , my guess would be that neither can do stairs and both need those dang conveyor belts stopped . So I getthe FP + or whatever these new GAC things are and I go to the regular FP line and who do
Itell I need no stairs and NO conveyor belt to and do I then have to wait in yet another line by my reckoning I am already up to 3 lines , ( GS, Kiosk and FP) and now I need a 4th line for special access , by now it is lunch time and we still haven't ridden anything Okay relax I am just trying to put some humor into what is a HOT topic , and taking 8 strangers to Disney every year calls for a large dose of Humor and a whole lot of Love for this population !!!

 

[BigAlsGal]

being a Christian woman, I can't say what I would like to.


blind and visually impaired people don't need wheelchairs. we walk through the park at our pace. not the same as in a queue.
i have no problem waiting for a return time. the visually disabled have dif. needs thatn the autistic, which seems to be the focus on this thread. I was just responding to another post.
providing a way to get TO the ride safely definitely falls under the rules for ADA. period!.
I

I was thinking if safety was the main issue that would help a lot with falls.

 

[smidgy]

I was thinking if safety was the main issue that would help a lot with falls.

hubby can walk. he can't see well.

seems like you want to take out your anger at all the scammers and abusers on those on this thread who actually have disabilites..... I understand your frustration. ..we, too are annoyed by the scammers.
we just aren't taking it out on each other.

we all have dif. disabilites, dif. needs. one of the reason we were to tll the CM at GR what our NEEDS were.
just advocating for my husband here. visual impairment is often one of the least thought of needs when planning for disabilites.. kind of the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.

people think either you can see, or you're blind. no inbetween. or, even if you are totally blind, well, what do want to go on the ride for anyway? (there are audio descriptions, btw)

 

[AndreaA]

I think that people who dislike the fact that the GAC was essentially a FP are missing the fact that those who used it were often only in the park for half the day. So they were still only riding the same amount of rides as YOU who got to stay there all day, enjoying the sights, watching the parades and fireworks, etc..

Unfortunately, some kids can only take a short amount of time in that sort of stimulating environment before they start to break down. I am hoping, for their sakes, that this new DAS system won't make it so that those who have limited physical or mental stamina are de facto shut out of many rides due to lack of time.

I absolutely believe that the GAC was abused and needed to be adjusted accordingly, I'm just not sure that a few kiosks and longer waits are going to help matters. What they will do is add yet another line for those who need accommodation, and if you think that won't take time, then think again. Now those people will be waiting LONGER than the standby time AND being forced to walk MORE with kids who have a difficult time holding it together as it is. I think it would have made more sense to:

a) Require proof. I certain most people would have no issue with providing it.
b) Allow the GAC/DAS to only be used once per ride per day. I'm certain that would keep people who were using it to get to the head of the headliner attractions repeatedly.

 

[Objectivity]

we all have dif. disabilites, dif. needs. one of the reason we were to tll the CM at GR what our NEEDS were.
just advocating for my husband here. visual impairment is often one of the least thought of needs when planning for disabilites.. kind of the bottom of the barrel, so to speak.

people think either you can see, or you're blind. no inbetween. or, even if you are totally blind, well, what do want to go on the ride for anyway? (there are audio descriptions, btw)

100% agree with this. That's one reason I started posting in this thread. A lot of the focus is on families and groups with Autistic members. Systems put in place to meet their needs may not meet the needs of those with physical disabilities.

Visual impairment isn't all or nothing. And, people who essentially say "Just sit in a wheelchair and get over it" (BigAlsGal) highlight one of the reasons why it's important to speak about the different needs different people may have.

Will there still be front-of-house seating for the visually impaired? That seems like something that wouldn't be touched, but it could go overlooked if the focus was only in meeting with Autism awareness groups.

People with some physical disabilities can easily walk, but must walk slower. Do kiosks then impose an unnecessary obstacle for equal access?

I'm waiting for this change to be formally announced to see how different groups are accommodated. I hope they don't try to shoehorn everyone into the same system. I don't see that working.

 

[Objectivity]

I think that people who dislike the fact that the GAC was essentially a FP are missing the fact that those who used it were often only in the park for half the day. So they were still only riding the same amount of rides as YOU who got to stay there all day, enjoying the sights, watching the parades and fireworks, etc..

Unfortunately, some kids can only take a short amount of time in that sort of stimulating environment before they start to break down. I am hoping, for their sakes, that this new DAS system won't make it so that those who have limited physical or mental stamina are de facto shut out of many rides due to lack of time.

What's bothering me is that everyone is talking about how this will affect children with disabilities... who is advocating for the adults with disabilities. Will they have to follow rules set up for children who have entirely different needs?

I absolutely believe that the GAC was abused and needed to be adjusted accordingly, I'm just not sure that a few kiosks and longer waits are going to help matters. What they will do is add yet another line for those who need accommodation, and if you think that won't take time, then think again. Now those people will be waiting LONGER than the standby time AND being forced to walk MORE with kids who have a difficult time holding it together as it is. I think it would have made more sense to:

a) Require proof. I certain most people would have no issue with providing it.
b) Allow the GAC/DAS to only be used once per ride per day. I'm certain that would keep people who were using it to get to the head of the headliner attractions repeatedly.

I'm pretty sure that requiring proof is against the law. Otherwise, I think you'd be correct.

The problem with your separate option is that you're placing a limitation on those with needs that you're not placing on everyone else. Saying that some people can only ride once while others can ride five times is problematic. It works on paper, but when you put a face to the policy it becomes cruel.

In "the perfect world" the system that existed would not be problem because most would see the conveniences provided as an inadequate off-set to the problems faced by those with disabilities every day. In "the real world" people without disabilities took advantage of the system and harmed those it was meant to serve.

 

[AndreaA]

I'm pretty sure that requiring proof is against the law. Otherwise, I think you'd be correct.

The problem with your separate option is that you're placing a limitation on those with needs that you're not placing on everyone else. Saying that some people can only ride once while others can ride five times is problematic. It works on paper, but when you put a face to the policy it becomes cruel.

In "the perfect world" the system that existed would not be problem because most would see the conveniences provided as an inadequate off-set to the problems faced by those with disabilities every day. In "the real world" people without disabilities took advantage of the system and harmed those it was meant to serve.

It definitely is against the law in most cases, but since Disney would be offering something that was "better than equal" it seems like they could skirt around that. I question why it is illegal to require proof anyway. Can anyone answer that? Why should someone be allowed to say they have a disability in order to be given some accommodation and not have to prove it? Seems like it would be easy enough to carry a card in your wallet or something. I'm thought for sure that those with handicap parking placards must have to show proof of some kind.

I see what your saying about my second idea, but I'm not sure it would really be unfair. The person could still ride multiple times, just not using their GAC/DAS. They would need to get a normal FP/FP+. If the line is so long that getting multiple FPs is untenable, then people in the normal standby line probably aren't riding multiple times either. I suppose it could also simply be limited to a certain time frame... say once per hour or once per 45minutes.

I totally agree with the rest of your post. I also agree that most of the focus seems to be on families with children and hope that adults are also being taken into consideration.

 

[mrsksomeday]

a) Require proof. I certain most people would have no issue with providing it.

b) Allow the GAC/DAS to only be used once per ride per day. I'm certain that would keep people who were using it to get to the head of the headliner attractions repeatedly.

A). It is illegal to ask for proof of a disability.

B). If the proposed DAS gives you a time equal to the standby time then it shouldn't be restricted to once per day. A typical person could get in the standby line more than once.

Also autistic people pick certain rides as a "nesting" ride and they have a tendency to want to go on that ride a certain number of times.

I have a friend with an autistic son, his number on his favorite/nesting ride is three. After that is ridden three times he is much more flexible with the rest of the day. They utilize fast pass too so that helps with the number of rides, but I think restricting once per day is not right.

 

[AndreaA]

B). If the proposed DAS gives you a time equal to the standby time then it shouldn't be restricted to once per day. A typical person could get in the standby line more than once.

Agreed, but I'm saying that I think the current GAC system (which is basically a FP in most cases) should stay in place - so the person holding it would get the advantage of going to the front part of the line - but would only be able to do so once with the pass. They could then use FP/FP+ or get a return time stamp equal to the standby time. Just seems that would prevent "looping" which I think is probably one of the major abuses.

We just returned from a trip and used the GAC for one of my sons. When a repeat ride was requested, I said that wouldn't be fair and we went to ride/do something else and went back later. I realize that might be more difficult in some cases but does seem like a good compromise.

 

[jimmysmom74]

The focus was to revamp the GAC, which was frankly broken. The DAS will not leave out any disabled individuals that's needs were met with the GAC. Anyone with these concerns should read Sue's post in the stickies on disABILITIES.

1. If you are in a wheelchair or mobility device, your process is unchanged.
2. If you relied on the stroller as a wheelchair, no change.
3. If you use an alternative entrance GAC, you will now have to get a return time for attractions.
4. I don't believe there will be any change in handling the visually and hearing impaired. Sign language is still available and front row for shows. If you use an alternative entrance-#3 will apply.

There is a note in the stickies about Disney wanting to make trips magical for all, and there being flexibility in the program. The major change is the return times and the kiosk. I still believe this will be rolled into the magic bands as soon as testing is complete, which would eliminate the kiosk. You would just make reservations on your mobile device.
The reason this change seems to be about autism and children is because, their families are the one's effected most by the alternative entrance and return times. Most adults, without a developmental disability, can except the fact that they have to come back to a ride in 45mins. Clearly, the families with autistic children recognize that this may present problems. I hope this system can work for all. EVERYONE should be able to experience the magic WDW offers.