Renting risks?

[Melani]

We were RPFR'd so it looks like we'll have to rent if we want to take that trip. We're looking for another contract resale, but I don't want to be so upset if it doesn't go through. If we rent points we'll be able to relax on the time frame some.

So my question was, what are the risks the DVC member who is making the reservation taking when renting 6 months away?

I know I've read about the cancellation policy somewhere and noww I can't find it.

 

[Granny]

The person who owns the points is taking the risk that a potential point renter will not firm up a reservation in a timely manner or pay the deposit/full amount according to the agreement. Depending on how close to the end of the owner's Use Year, they may end up with restricted points if they miss the banking deadline because of a renter.

Most rental contracts require payment in full by the renter several months prior to the trip, so last minute cancellations shouldn't cost the owner anything. However, if the trip itself is fairly last minute or the booking is close to the banking deadline, the owner's risk goes up quite a bit.

 

[permavac]

I'm so sorry to hear about your ROFR! I remember seeing you on the ROFR waiting list - you were buying your contract around the same time we started ours. I also saw your other post about waiting forever for you to get any word at all so I know how disappointed you must be Hope your next one goes through fine!

Terri

 

[Melani]

I'm so sorry to hear about your ROFR! I remember seeing you on the ROFR waiting list - you were buying your contract around the same time we started ours. I also saw your other post about waiting forever for you to get any word at all so I know how disappointed you must be Hope your next one goes through fine!

Terri

Thank you. I'm trying not to be bitter. I did check the Rofr board again last night and Disney apparently was in a bad mood because 2 others found out they were rofr'd too.

Anyway we're looking again (I hope the next one is listed with a diffrent broker), but I guess we can kiss a small BLT add-on goodbye (unless Disney changes the min. pt. thing next year)


I wanted to know the exact number of days in advance a reservation could be canceled without costing the member points, taking into consideration UY. Not that we would cancel. I want to know what a fair deposit amount would be and when full payment should be expected. I read the stickys on the R/T board.

 

[Granny]

A cancellation within 30 days of a trip puts the points into a restricted status and seriously reduces their usability to the owner.

As for deposits and payments, when I rented some of my points I requested a 20% non-refundable deposit once the reservation was made (usually several months before the trip) and the 100% of the balance (non-refundable) 90 days before the trip. Different owners will put different terms on their contracts.

If the trip were coming up in less than 3 months, I'd require 100% payment at the time of the reservation.

 

[crisi]

Thank you. I'm trying not to be bitter. I did check the Rofr board again last night and Disney apparently was in a bad mood because 2 others found out they were rofr'd too.

Anyway we're looking again (I hope the next one is listed with a diffrent broker), but I guess we can kiss a small BLT add-on goodbye (unless Disney changes the min. pt. thing next year)


I wanted to know the exact number of days in advance a reservation could be canceled without costing the member points, taking into consideration UY. Not that we would cancel. I want to know what a fair deposit amount would be and when full payment should be expected. I read the stickys on the R/T board.

The member has to cancel the reservation 30 days in advance in order to have the points put back in their account - but don't count on them giving your money back unless you put that in the contract. They now have distressed points - points with a much smaller time horizon on them in order to rent them before they expire. Rentals are a great deal, but you may have to consider the transaction final - or perhaps be willing to have some part of your money non-refundable, perhaps pay more per point initially. Since each owner is individual, and each will have different restrictions on use year, ability to plan around a cancellation, and financial reasons for renting, you will want to work this out with the owner you rent from in advance. Note that some owners will work with you, and others will simply find someone else to rent to - not wanting the bother.

You can also purchase travel insurance for timeshares, which may be a better option if you are concerned about needing to cancel.

 

[chalee94]

I wanted to know the exact number of days in advance a reservation could be canceled without costing the member points, taking into consideration UY. Not that we would cancel. I want to know what a fair deposit amount would be and when full payment should be expected. I read the stickys on the R/T board.

keep in mind that it also depends on when the member's banking window closes.

i would advise against making a presumption on when you can cancel. many owners do not offer any cancellation policy at all. always remember that it is a transaction between individuals and you need to be clear on that individual's rules.

 

[JimMIA]

I wanted to know the exact number of days in advance a reservation could be canceled without costing the member points, taking into consideration UY. Not that we would cancel. I want to know what a fair deposit amount would be and when full payment should be expected. I read the stickys on the R/T board.

Unfortunately, there is no cookie-cutter answer to your questions.

First of all, all of those questions are the subject of negotiation between the owner and renter. The answer is whatever the two of you say it is, because renting is a private transaction between owner and renter. Owner's policies vary all over the ballpark -- there is no "standard" policy.

The EXACT number of days to avoid losing the points is ONE. If the cancellation occurs one day prior to arrival, the owner does not LOSE the points automatically. (Keep in mind that a cancellation requires adequate time for you to notify the owner, and also for the owner to cancel with MS. You can't just expect to send an owner a last-minute email and get your money back. You might want to cancel and the owner could be unreacheable.)

However, as Granny pointed out above, last-minute cancellation is only a tiny part of the risk the owner faces. There are other serious ramifications to cancellations. Depending on a whole array of variables, you might cancel 90 days out but that still might put the owner in a position where they lost the points because they couldn't use, bank, or rent them.

 

[Lynne M]

I think you're going to find that most owners have a no-cancellations policy. In other words, if you cancel at any time after final payment is made, you don't get your money back.

Granny told you that points go into a restricted state if the reservation isn't cancelled within 30 days of arrival date. You should also understand that the owner's use year comes into play.

If you have a reservation starting May 1, and you cancel on March 15, the owners points are not restricted in any way. Good, so far. But if the owner has, say, a June or July use year, they've got very little time to re-rent the points, or they're gone.

So, first they've got to find a renter who is travelling in the right range of dates (before the end of their use year), and then they've got to find a place for the renter to stay. Availability can be difficult on short notice. SSR or OKW might still be open, but what if they can't find a renter who wants to stay there?

So, there's a lot more to this than the DVC cancellation policy. Make sure you're very clean on the owner's cancellation policy before renting.

 

[crisi]

Even in the best case scenario my points can be worth less to me if you cancel.

Lets say I have an October use year and you want my BWV points for Food and Wine. This is a great use year for an October trip, since if the trip gets cancelled, I still have a full year to use the points. You contact me twelve months out because you really want a Standard View room - and because of this scenario, I can rent my points for $14 instead of $10 or $12. We make the reservation in November and everyone is happy. You cancel in late January. I still have months to use those points - or even bank them, but if I want to get paid in full this year, I'll need to rent them this year. And now, the availability of prime rooms at BWV isn't there for F&W through Christmas - my ability to charge a premium for those is gone.

 

[Melani]

I read on one of the stickys that me (the Rentee) should expect a written reservation confirmation letter from Disney showing the reservation with my name on it. Does Disney may this direct to me or to the DVC member?

So if I understand this right -

Should I expect to pay a 10% deposit before or after the reservation has been made? Then 90% 91 days prior to check-in, (if the member's UY is more than 2 or 3 months away) after I receive the confirmation letter.

 

[chalee94]

I read on one of the stickys that me (the Rentee) should expect a written reservation confirmation letter from Disney showing the reservation with my name on it. Does Disney may this direct to me or to the DVC member?

not sure this has sunk in yet, but disney has no part in this transaction. you are renting from the owner and they would be responsible for sending you the confirmation. they control the reservation until the time (edited) you actually check-in.

here are some threads you should read to learn more about renting:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1669863

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1255828

So if I understand this right -

Should I expect to pay a 10% deposit before or after the reservation has been made? Then 90% 91 days prior to check-in, (if the member's UY is more than 2 or 3 months away) after I receive the confirmation letter.

if you're dealing with an individual who expects a 10% deposit immediately and 90% later, then yes.

BUT some owners require 50% upfront to make the reservation. some require 100%.

again, there is no "standard" policy...you are dealing with individuals.

 

[JimMIA]

We were RPFR'd so it looks like we'll have to rent if we want to take that trip in May '09. We're looking for another contract resale, but I don't want to be so upset if it doesn't go through.

Just a little intel for you...

I just got off the phone with MS. I made a six-night ressie, Saturday 5/9/2009, checking out on Friday, 5/15 for a 1 BR at OKW. Even got Hospitality House with no problem.

I also rechecked my 2008 confirmation and I called on 1/8 for a ressie at SSR arriving on 5/18. Again, no problem.

May is a GREAT time to visit WDW, and it's far from the busiest time of the year for DVC. Your chances of getting a resale, passing ROFR, closing, and being able to make a ressie for May should be pretty good.

Rather than stressing over a rental in an uncertain environment, you might want to just check deals with CRO. They have some great promotions going, and there is very little cancellation risk when your purchase goes through.

 

[JimMIA]

So if I understand this right -

Should I expect to pay a 10% deposit before or after the reservation has been made? Then 90% 91 days prior to check-in, (if the member's UY is more than 2 or 3 months away) after I receive the confirmation letter.

As mentioned above - this is all between you and the owner. I don't rent my points, but from the info I've seen posted by folks who do, I think a 50% deposit around the time of the reservation is much more typical. Some owners require the deposit prior to making the ressie, some as soon as the confirmation number is provided, and some after the written confirmation is received (2-3 weeks after making the ressie).

I think most owners would want the entire thing paid in full AT LEAST by 90 days prior to checkin, and many would want full payment 120 days or so out. A prudent owner would want full payment at least several weeks prior to their banking deadline if the ressie is in the last half of their UY.

 

[Melani]

if you're dealing with an individual who expects a 10% deposit immediately and 90% later, then yes.

BUT some owners require 50% upfront to make the reservation. some require 100%.

again, there is no "standard" policy...you are dealing with individuals.

Ok.
I do NOT think we will have to cancel, we have never canceled a trip yet. (and I understand that if we did and it was less than 90 days out we should NOT expect a refund.)

We will need 55 - 65 pts. (depending on which resort is available)

But what I want to understand is this.
If I limit my search for points to rent to only those willing to accept 10-20% deposit then, if even after doing all my homework this turns out to be a scam, I'm only out $55-130, right.

The "confirmation letter" spoken of the the sticky is something I can use to call DVC MS and verify before I send the remaining 90-80%.

 

[5forDiz]

Melani, sorry to hear your contract didn't pass ROFR Hopefully you will find another that will pass ( perhaps something even better ) before too long !

Cancellations from 1 day before through 30 days before check-in date will

put points into Holding Status which equates to a headache most

owners do not want because those points cannot be banked and

must be utilized before the end of that Use Year and any reservation

that the owner may want to make with those Holding points can only

be made 60 days or less prior to check-in date wanted ......this can be

difficult to do if attempting to make use of the Holding points during a

busy time of year like Food & Wine, holidays, etc.

Best wishes to you on the next contract

 

[chalee94]

The "confirmation letter" spoken of the the sticky is something I can use to call DVC MS and verify before I send the remaining 90-80%.

had you read the links, you would have discovered that MS will no longer speak to non-owners to confirm their reservations. even if you got the owner to do a 3-way call to confirm the reservation while you were on the line with MS with them, they could call back 5 minutes later and cancel it...a confirmation letter does not mean that you "own" the reservation.

there's no easy fix...

But what I want to understand is this.
If I limit my search for points to rent to only those willing to accept 10-20% deposit then, if even after doing all my homework this turns out to be a scam, I'm only out $55-130, right.

if you are really concerned about scams, jimMIA's idea is a great one. make the reservation through CRO and get a great deal (7 for the price of 4) with a much better cancellation policy, as well as the peace of mind of dealing with disney directly.

 

[JimMIA]

The "confirmation letter" spoken of the the sticky is something I can use to call DVC MS and verify before I send the remaining 90-80%.

You are really just not getting the core fact about renting.

Renting is between you and the owner you rent from. Nobody else. You get nothing from MS...you can't even talk to MS.

Even if you are a DVC owner renting points from another owner for some reason, you CANNOT do ANYthing regarding that reservation with MS. Only the owner of the points can even speak to MS about that reservation.

If you are this concerned about getting ripped off, you really should consider a risk-free transaction with CRO. That's really your best option.

 

[chalee94]

BTW, i understand that renting can be very scary for control freaks - i rented once and even though the owner i dealt with was terrific, the complete loss of control freaked me out. i understand your concern about scams and wanting to take every precaution. but there's just no 100% guarantee with renting and at some point, you have to completely trust the owner you are renting from.

while i ultimately had a great experience with my DVC rental, i am much happier booking reservations as an owner now...

but with the deals disney is running in a down economy, there's not enough of a discount for renting from an individual to make it worthwhile, IMO.

 

[joeytdog]

I will chime in with my .02 cents....

I have rented the last 3 years and am renting again for a trip in May

The renter has full control. They could cancel the reservation at any point and you would not even know

But to echo the sentiments of some others on the board, at this point with the buy 4 get 3 deal, it is just as cost effective to go directly though Disney.

I for one, have already secured and paid for my rental so there is nothing that I can do at this point. But we are staying 8 nights at BWV and paid $11 per point. With the new deal, we could have booked directly through Disney and paid the same amount. It was just that the deal wasnt out yet.

So, bottom line, use the deal and go directly through Disney. If the deal dates do not work, then go ahead and rent, just be aware you are taking all the risk once you have made the payment. Most people are good and will not rip you off, but you really have to trust them when renting points.

Best of Luck