Renting and Borrowing Question

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh
EXACTLY!!! YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! That is my point, but the OP said specifically that he is getting the full amount of points for 2003 - 150 points and there are NO MAINTENANCE DUES to be paid on those points at all. Not prorated or otherwise - no maintenance fees at all. That is what is blowing my mind.

150 points December 2003 - no dues at all
150 points December 2004 - prorated dues

What DebbieB is saying is that they got the dues prorated, like the OP is saying for 2004 - but the op is also saying that they got an additional year worth of points for no dues at all!

It doesn't matter what the use year is - at least it shouldn't. Just because you aren't alloted the points until December of 2004 - you can still use those points in May by borrowing them. You still have access to the points in that calendar year.

They are paying dues on the December 2003 points. They have to start paying dues in May for them. If someone bought SSR points for a use year after May, they don't have to start paying until the use year starts. So if someone buys December 2004 now (if they were available), they would not pay dues until December 2004. So the dues in May are for 2003 use year points.

 

[MelissathePooh]

"No maintenace fees are to be paid on the Dec 2003 points and the Dec 2004 maintenance fees are prorated starting with closing date (May, I think) to end of the year. "

This is the quote from the OP. This is my point - he is saying that there are NO DUES AT ALL for the 2003 points.

Regarding the December use year - again unless someone wanted to buy an entire new contract - if you are just doing an add on under 150 pts - you don't get to chose your use year. That option is not available for everyone and depending on when someone buys into a new resort may not be an option either - but that's all beside the point.

My point remains how can you have a years worth of points without any dues as the OP stated?

 

[arminnie]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh
My point remains how can you have a years worth of points without any dues as the OP stated?

Because Disney says so. Extra benefit for those who bought early and at least 150 points. I probably would not have picked a December use year without the extra goodies.

For 200 points it's just under $800 which when added to the $10 a point discount made for a wonderful deal.

 

[RweTHEREyet]

For goodness sakes, get over it. If you so seriously doubt that this offer was made, call your Guide and ask them yourselves.

They are paying dues on the December 2003 points. They have to start paying dues in May for them

Not true, the maintenace that starts in May 2004 is for the December 2004 Use Year. I pay my dues once a year at the beginning of the calendar year, not monthly as a lot do. I have a September Use Year for my other two contracts. In January 2004 I pay the full year of maintenance for OKW and BCV even though I don't get the points until September 2004. The same will be true with SSR, I will pay maintenance in May, when the closing happens, prorated to the end of the 2004 year for my Dec. 2004 Use Year. Maintenace is always billed in advance. I have already received my 2004 Annual Dues statement from DVC, and there is absolutely nothing on there about SSR.

How could they bill maintenance on Dec. 2003 points when the facility is still under construction and the Developer is paying the expenses? There is nothing to maintain yet.

 

[DebbieB]

It is hard to compare use years and dues because dues are paid on a calendar year basis, not use year. I still think that the December use year owners did not get a full extra year of points without dues. Those who bought with a February use year will get their points 2 months later, not a year later, and will pay the same dues in May 2004. I'll agree that buying December was an advantage but not a whole year.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh
"No maintenace fees are to be paid on the Dec 2003 points and the Dec 2004 maintenance fees are prorated starting with closing date (May, I think) to end of the year. "

This is the quote from the OP. This is my point - he is saying that there are NO DUES AT ALL for the 2003 points.

Regarding the December use year - again unless someone wanted to buy an entire new contract - if you are just doing an add on under 150 pts - you don't get to chose your use year. That option is not available for everyone and depending on when someone buys into a new resort may not be an option either - but that's all beside the point.

My point remains how can you have a years worth of points without any dues as the OP stated?

DVC charges dues on a calendar year basis. That means they're only getting a years points and paying part of years maint fees ON THE 2003 POINTS. If they closed May 1, they'd be getting free dues for 5 months. So someone who get December points is only a few months ahead of someone who doesn't. While they'd get the entire points, they would only have a half a year to use them and if they wanted to bank them, would have to do it right away.

DVC has done it this way several times. Including points to use when the resort wasn't available. I'm sure they are taking the unsold points, etc, to even out the usage so that there will not be more points available than units. With most timeshares, as with cars, no one pays the same price. Someone will always get a better deal. DVC is different but there are MINOR nuances that still make things different for one buyer or member vs the next.

 

[Dean]

I'm sorry, you can laugh, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm glad you think it is funny. I'm also glad that someone got something - that is great for them. But frankly, it makes no sense that anybody buying SSR points would get any 2003 points.

1. The resort was not open in 2003.

The points go from 1 Dec, 2003 to 30 Nov, 2004. To take the position in the quote, no one with a use year before June could get any points until the 2005 use year. Some would always be ahead and other behind unless all use years were the same. DVD has ways to "even out" the usage over the remainder of the time for the next year or two. These include not using the points they own, the fact there is declared but unsold inventory and in the past, the points that were sold back. Other timeshares do it by offering a different unit, Exchange company deposit, Points (Marriott) and the like. DVC cannot legally charge fees for time past.

2. There are no dues for 2003. So how can someone have a years worth of points and not pay any dues for them?

Not a years extra worth of points, only a few months and that depends on who and what use year you compare to. Compart to October and they get 10 months advantage but Oct pays only 3 months of dues for 2004 and Dec (2003) would pay 7 assuming closing about May.

. Why would only the month of December get 2003 points? Why not the month of November? I mean seriously, why wouldn't someone with a November use year get 2003 points if someone with a Dec use year does? It doens't make any sense to put an arbitrary line there. The line should go 2003/2004.

There has to be an abritrary line somewhere. December makes as much sense as anything. It was the earliest use year that would be able to buy and bank at the 100% window.

4. Why go to the trouble of having "2003" points even exist if the resort isn't open and there will be no dues? Why have 2003 points if you can't use the points until after May of 2004? Why set up the computers and stuff to even have to deal with 2003 points for one use year? That is an expense for no reason at all.

You could always say no one gets points for any use year earlier than June and that would be another arbitrary decision and since there's no cost to DVC or the members and no harm to anyone else, DVC can use it as a marketing ploy to sell more points. There's no expense encured related to the 2003 points, it's setting up SSR at all that has any expense. They have to put all use year in and the 2003 vs 2004 issue would have NO impact on this at all.

5. How can someone get 51 years worth or points when everyone else gets 50, and get 51 years worth of points paying for 50 years worth of dues.

No one is paying for 50 years worth of points. Each is paying to get points that expire at the stated date. They just happen to be about 50 years right now. What about those buying BCV, etc; the ending date is different and those that bought DVC from the onset also got slightly more than 50 years. Still, it's not 51 years, more likely 50.2.

I'm sorry, but frankly I do not even believe that this is accurate. It just doesn't make any sense.

From what I know it's accurate and it is consistent with what DVC has done previoulsy at BCV, VWL and BWV, especially BCV.

When I go back and read these posts I don't see anyone saying anything about what is fair or not. There is a difference between worrying about what someone else got - which is what I think you are alluding to, and I'm sorry if I misunderstood that - and thinking that something doesn't make sense. And while I wouldn't agree with you that an additional years worth of points with no annual dues at all is a "slight" benefit, I am not worried about the deal that someone else got, just as I don't worry about what airfare you paid or what your car cost. But as a member of DVC I do not think this makes much sense.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, I did read the notes from you and MelissathePooh as being concerned that someone else got something that you didn't, especially since this is not the first time around for this type of activity from DVC. That it wasn't fair. Since it's only a few months difference, not a whole year, I still say it's a minor benefit. Remember that points are a perishable comodity. The same point is not worth quite the same in June as it would be in December (assuming a Dec use year).

 

[MelissathePooh]

This is DR I am on Melissa's laptop

Are you questioning that I got the Dec 2003 points or that there is no maintenance? I am sure there are others here that can attest to the same deal.

I believe that you get points in Dec. 2003, but I don't believe that you are not paying dues on them.

Originally posted by RweTHEREyet
For goodness sakes, get over it. If you so seriously doubt that this offer was made, call your Guide and ask them yourselves.

Actually, I already did talk to my guide today. He explained to me that those with a Dec. use year will get points in Dec. 2003, and that they will pay dues for them prorated from May (the opening of SSR) to Dec.. Then you will pay full dues for the 2004 points that you get next Dec.. Basically, since there are no Nov. or Jan. use years, the year is starting in Dec. So it is the 2003 dues are being prorated in 2004; then Dec. use year owners will pay the full dues for 2004. You aren't a year and a half ahead, you are a month or two ahead, like Dean says. I can only suiggest that perhaps you want to talk to your guide if you think you are paying no dues for the 2003 points and only a part of the year of dues for the 2004 points. There I was ready to trade my 100 point add on for a 150 point new contract in Dec. if we got a free years worth of points, but my guide explained to me that this wasn't the case and there was no use to change and so we didn't change.

Not true, the maintenace that starts in May 2004 is for the December 2004 Use Year. I pay my dues once a year at the beginning of the calendar year, not monthly as a lot do. I have a September Use Year for my other two contracts. In January 2004 I pay the full year of maintenance for OKW and BCV even though I don't get the points until September 2004. The same will be true with SSR, I will pay maintenance in May, when the closing happens, prorated to the end of the 2004 year for my Dec. 2004 Use Year. Maintenace is always billed in advance. I have already received my 2004 Annual Dues statement from DVC, and there is absolutely nothing on there about SSR.

Read what Dean said, he explains it better than I could but he is consistent with what my guide said today-

DVC charges dues on a calendar year basis. That means they're only getting a years points and paying part of years maint fees ON THE 2003 POINTS. If they closed May 1, they'd be getting free dues for 5 months. So someone who get December points is only a few months ahead of someone who doesn't. While they'd get the entire points, they would only have a half a year to use them and if they wanted to bank them, would have to do it right away.

How could they bill maintenance on Dec. 2003 points when the facility is still under construction and the Developer is paying the expenses? There is nothing to maintain yet.

Well, that is the whole point isn't it - think about it. How could they give out points for a facility that is under construction and not open inventory? That would put the whole point system out of whack - you don't get an extra years worth of points, you are just a couple of months ahead.

 

[MelissathePooh]

Originally posted by RweTHEREyet
For goodness sakes, get over it. If you so seriously doubt that this offer was made, call your Guide and ask them yourselves.

Not true, the maintenace that starts in May 2004 is for the December 2004 Use Year. I pay my dues once a year at the beginning of the calendar year, not monthly as a lot do. I have a September Use Year for my other two contracts. In January 2004 I pay the full year of maintenance for OKW and BCV even though I don't get the points until September 2004. The same will be true with SSR, I will pay maintenance in May, when the closing happens, prorated to the end of the 2004 year for my Dec. 2004 Use Year. Maintenace is always billed in advance.

This is DR also, I added this to help break it down for you - this is by the month-




Dec 2003 get 2003, points, cant use them, no dues
Jan 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
Feb 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
Mar 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
Apr 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
May 2003 points, SSR OPENS, can use them, start paying 2004 dues
June 2003 points, 2004 dues
July 2003 points, 2004 dues
Aug 2003 points, 2004 dues
Sept 2003 points, 2004 dues
Oct 2003 points, 2004 dues
Nov 2003 points, 2004 dues
Dec get 2004 points,2004 dues
Jan 2004 points, 2005 dues
Feb 2004 points, 2005 dues
Mar 2004 points, 2005 dues
Apr 2004 points, 2005 dues
May 2004 points, 2005 dues
Jun 2004 points, 2005 dues
Jul 2004 points, 2005 dues
Aug 2004 points, 2005 dues
Sep 2004 points, 2005 dues
Oct 2004 points, 2005 dues
Nov 2004 points, 2005 dues
Dec 2005 points, 2005 dues
Jan 2005 points, 2006 dues
Feb 2005 points, 2006 dues
Mar 2005 points, 2006 dues
Apr 2005 points, 2006 dues
May 2005 points, 2006 dues
Jun 2005 points, 2006 dues
Jul 2005 points, 2006 dues
Aug 2005 points, 2006 dues
Sep 2005 points, 2006 dues
Oct 2005 points, 2006 dues
Nov 2005 points, 2006 dues
Dec 2006 points, 2006 dues


And so on.

I have already received my 2004 Annual Dues statement from DVC, and there is absolutely nothing on there about SSR.

It doesn't matter if you pay for them monthly or annually, you still pay them. Guess what. We have an April use year and our 2004 Annual Dues statement includes WLV and BCV, but not SSR - YET. But starting in May of 2004, we will pay dues for the final seven months of 2004, just like you will.

 

[snowwhitemom]

Originally posted by RweTHEREyet
Don't want to add insult to injury, but we also got the $10.00 per point off. Same deal was available to everyone, just a matter of talking to your Guide.

My famous saying to my daughter is that it is not fair to compare...............This deal was not available to me and trust me I talked that more mans ear off, I was even debating Dec. but he said since I enjoyed holiday travel I should go with Oct. instead of Dec. Ughhhh


I haven't even made my final payment....Jan.8.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh
This is DR also, I added this to help break it down for you - this is by the month-




Dec 2003 get 2003, points, cant use them, no dues
Jan 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
Feb 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
Mar 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
Apr 2003 points, can't use them, no dues
May 2003 points, SSR OPENS, can use them, start paying 2004 dues
June 2003 points, 2004 dues
July 2003 points, 2004 dues
Aug 2003 points, 2004 dues
Sept 2003 points, 2004 dues
Oct 2003 points, 2004 dues
Nov 2003 points, 2004 dues
Dec get 2004 points,2004 dues

The information is flawed. DVC charges dues on a calendar year basis, not a use year basis. That means that the dues charged up until Dec, 04 are actually paying for the Dec, 2003 points.

 

[MelissathePooh]

Hey Dean,

That is what DR meant - that the dues he will start paying in May of 2004 are actually for the 2003 points, but are considered 2004 dues. Basically even though the points are given in 2003 - they are 2004 points for all practical purposes.

It took me a while to get it straight as I knew there was no way DVC would alot ANY points to anyone regardless of use year that did not have any maintenance dues!

The other posters were saying one thing, that made sense and the OP was saying the opposite, but after having my guide explain it I understand. The only real benefit to a Dec use year is that at the very end of the contract you could potentially borrow all the points from 2053 ahead of time and only pay 1 months worth of dues on them for Dec 2054. By that time it really is irrelevant.

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by Dean
The information is flawed. DVC charges dues on a calendar year basis, not a use year basis. That means that the dues charged up until Dec, 04 are actually paying for the Dec, 2003 points.

I'm sorry - I didn't try to make a table or something, I just listed the information, so you aren't able to read it correctly. That's my bad for not making a better table. Dean, you are right - and that is what I was trying to show, but you couldn't read it- but the OP has been saying that he would get 2003 points with no dues, and only pay prorated dues on 2004 points - to me, this sounded like it he was saying 2 years of points for only a few months dues. But you understand - and have understood - how this works. So you have been describing it accurately, but you were not really describing what the OP has been saying. I tried to make a table to make it more clear, but you weren't able to read that table because I didn't format it with columns or anything - I think you were reading the first two columns as one (Jan. 2003) when I meant them as two. I am going to try this as a table so it will better show what I mean-
<table border =1 cellpadding =1>
<tr>
<td>Date</p>
</td>
<td>Points</p>
</td>
<td>Dues</p>
</td>
<td>Notes</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2003</p>
</td>
<td>none</p>
</td>
<td>Get 2003 points; SSR isn’t opened yet so can’t use them
until after it opens</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Jan. 2004</p>
(now)</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>none</p>
</td>
<td>No dues because SSR isn’t open (prorated)</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Feb. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td >None </p>
</td>
<td ></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
>March 2004</p>
</td>
<td >Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td >none</p>
</td>
<td></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td >April 2004</p>
</td>
<td >Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td >None</p>
</td>
<td></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>May 2004</p>
</td>
<td >Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues begin</p>
</td>
<td>SSR opens</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td >June 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td >July 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>August 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Sept. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Oct. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Nov. 2004 </p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2003</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
Dec. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>2004 dues</p>
</td>
<td>The 2004 use year begins</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Jan. 2005</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2004</p>
</td>
<td >2005 dues</p>
</td>
<td>The calendar year for dues begins</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Feb. 2005</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>2005 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Mar 2005</p>
</td>
<td>Dec. 2004</p>
</td>
<td>2005 dues</p>
</td>
<td> </p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh
Hey Dean,

That is what DR meant - that the dues he will start paying in May of 2004 are actually for the 2003 points, but are considered 2004 dues. Basically even though the points are given in 2003 - they are 2004 points for all practical purposes.

It took me a while to get it straight as I knew there was no way DVC would alot ANY points to anyone regardless of use year that did not have any maintenance dues!

The other posters were saying one thing, that made sense and the OP was saying the opposite, but after having my guide explain it I understand. The only real benefit to a Dec use year is that at the very end of the contract you could potentially borrow all the points from 2053 ahead of time and only pay 1 months worth of dues on them for Dec 2054. By that time it really is irrelevant.

Thanks, sorry I misunderstood.