Renter's "etiquette" - please advise! (long)

[Doctor P]

OOOOOH, are you a Doctor a lawyer or both? It's all starting to make more sense.

I'm just a purchaser who reads the documents I am given before a real estate purchase, takes them seriously, and then expects to abide by them after I purchase, and expects other owners in a condominium situation to do the same. By the way, we live in a PUD that has covenants associated with the use of our property. I take those seriously and abide by them, even if my neighbors choose not to, and even if my life would be a lot easier and more pleasant if I didn't have to abide by them. That's part of the price of living in a situation where there are covenants and declarations--you lose some of your freedom to do things, but you know that your neighbors are legally prevented from doing things that will diminish the value or enjoyment of your ownership.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I know people have replied already...I'm just giving my take on the questions.

Situtation

We would like to rent points for two standard studios at BWV. don't get your hopes up too high for standard studios. they aren't easy to come by. be prepared with a back up plan that you will like...for example a two bedroom at OKW

So here are the questions:

1) If for any reason (e.g., illness or blizzard, or such) we cannot go, is it okay to "sublet" the pre-reserved room? I would want you to ask me before going ahead with this. there was a reason I picked you as a renter. who knows...the member might let you bail if they can use or rent the points themselves.

2) Is it okay to insist (nicely) on a written contract? good idea.

3) Is it okay to bypass the member/owner and talk to member services directly about my reservation? This would be for things like:
- confirming my reservation
- making small requests like asking for both studios to be located near each other, non-smoking rooms (if there's such a thing), pack n plays, etc. nothing to add

4) If yes to Q#3, after the transaction has been completed, i.e., reservation has been made and full payment made, should I keep the member/owner posted about whatever requests, etc. I make to member services? Do you need to give the owner an update when you return? i certainly would like to know. that way if i rented again i would know what issues you had to deal with

OT question: Do you tip the mousekeeper at DVC? i do but since I stay in studios I do it along the same guidelines i use for hotel rooms...between $2 & $5 for each day i had mousekeeping service. Since I don't stay a week that's probably between $5 and $10. Once kitchens are involved the tip jumps a bit.

My goal is to make it as painless for everyone as possible. I don't want to be burdensome to an owner yet still get what I would like. I am so used to flexibility with hotels that I'm not sure what I should do.Thank you for your advice.

Thanks for your help!

Thank you for asking these questions.

As an aside I forget who said it but having to make a similarly priced call into MS as you would for CRO seems reasonable to me...for non-members. Upgrading to the website to handle room requests via confirmation number and perhaps a zip code doesn't seem like a bad idea either.

 

[Judique]

Our member number is never on our written confirmation. Is it on anyones?

It's not on any of the 3 confirmations I just checked.

 

[TCPluto]

Originally Posted by WebmasterDoc
That provision goes on to state:

"In the event an Owner fails to secure a written leasing or rental agreement, the Association reserves the right to request the lessee-sublessee-tenant to execute an acknowledgement to use and occupy the rented or leased Vacation Home in confromance and compliance with the Condominium Documents and these Comdominium Rules and Regulations."

That is very true, but what that language means from a contract law standpoint is that is one remedy that DVD can choose to use against the owner. It should in no way be construed as a substitute for the previous language, nor does it relieve the owner from the responsibility of such a written contract. The legal phrasing that is used in this clause of the declarations is among the strongest wordings that can be chosen in drafting a legal document (there are about four levels of wording, and this one is the strongest).

My point is that this is, once again, a case where the rules are in place and not being enforced.

Doctor p, I disagree with you. The paragraph that you conveniently left out in your post, that WebmasterDoc included, allows DVC the right to execute the document. And at that I'm quite sure DVC doesn't do it, just that they reserve the right to.

 

[Doctor P]

Originally Posted by WebmasterDoc
That provision goes on to state:

"In the event an Owner fails to secure a written leasing or rental agreement, the Association reserves the right to request the lessee-sublessee-tenant to execute an acknowledgement to use and occupy the rented or leased Vacation Home in confromance and compliance with the Condominium Documents and these Comdominium Rules and Regulations."



Doctor p, I disagree with you. The paragraph that you conveniently left out in your post, that WebmasterDoc included, allows DVC the right to execute the document. And at that I'm quite sure DVC doesn't do it, just that they reserve the right to.

You have the right to be wrong (except for the part that DVC doesn't do this--that would appear to be correct). I didn't conveniently leave it out--they are separable clauses. One is duty; one is a possible remedy. I will say that I don't think that DVD will police this or choose another remedy, but they can.

 

[TCPluto]

Maybe seperate clauses, but you can't responsibility consider one without the other, they refer to the same subject matter directly.


So by this clause all DVC is saying to the renter and/or owner is "if you don't have a rental agreement regarding condo rules, we reserve the right to create one, before allowing you to stay at our resort".

The legal language is not the least bit restrictive, as you suggest. If it were, it would outline what exactly had to be in the agreement.

At least that's my take.

 

[Doctor P]

Maybe seperate clauses, but you can't responsibility consider one without the other, they refer to the same subject matter directly.


So by this clause all DVC is saying to the renter and/or owner is "if you don't have a rental agreement regarding condo rules, we reserve the right to create one, before allowing you to stay at our resort".

The legal language is not the least bit restrictive, as you suggest. If it were, it would outline what exactly had to be in the agreement.

At least that's my take.

Not sure how many condo declarations you have read, but this is fairly standard type of language and the meaning is well understood and interpreted in my experience. The last time I dealt with this language, the interpretation was that the leasor had to make copies of all of the supporting documents and make those available to the lessee prior to executing a lease agreement. Thankfully, Disney has chosen not to be that restrictive. But that is where this type of language comes from. The intent is generally to ensure that all users of the property are knowledgable and compliant with the declarations and rules and regulations of the Association. Frankly, my guess why Disney has not enforced this is that THEY don't want to comply in making cash reservations or using developer inventory, even though it is their responsibility under the declarations to do so.

 

[greenban]

I have been told the last two times I made reservations for renters, by the member services cast member (almost verbatim), "when they call and confirm their reservation, we'll set them up for ME and the DDP if they want them".

It seems whether I call or the renter calls, MS still has to field a phone call, so why does it matter who makes that call? MS is servicing a points reservation, correct? Which has had the dues paid for these services, no?

For the limited purpose of confirming a reservation and setting up ME and DDP, a renter should be able to confirm that the reservation does indeed exist in their names.

Or not, what do I know.....

ITA

My DVC Advisors, have repeatedly said, have the guest call directly for DME and the DVC-DP. They prefer to get the flight info (which frequently changes directly from the guest, less errors requiring correction)

I also agree, whether I (taking longer after the 'security' questions, or a guest in a shorter call, the Owners MF paid for this service, which IMHO is more efficent talking directly to the guest as notedabove.

Finally to the OP. What a wonderful guest you will be. These were great, thoughtful and intelligent questions, and I believe the vast majority of owners who rent, would love to have you as a guest, and Happy B-Day to your boys!

-Tony

ETA: Dr. P you know I am a fan. But I believe you may have come off harsher sounding than you inteneded to in your earlier posts, JMHO!

 

[Doctor P]

ITA
Dr. P you know I am a fan. But I believe you may have come off harsher sounding than you inteneded to in your earlier posts, JMHO!

I'm sure that that is true.

 

[TCPluto]

Not sure how many condo declarations you have read,.....

Well, none, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Actually, 7. I think that's enough for an opinion.

 

[Doctor P]

Well, none, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Actually, 7. I think that's enough for an opinion.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I tell anyone that rents from me to feel free to call MS to confirm the reservation, but if any changes are required, it would have to go through me. I pay the dues for the points used for the reservation, and if I need to make 1 or 100 calls concerning a particular ressie, so be it. DVCers pay for the services of MS whether the CMs are fielding calls all day or playing solitare on their computer. If it weren't for all those renters calling, MS workplace productivity would be 100% just like in every office I've ever experienced.

BTW, I also tell renters if they need more towels, just grab a few extra from the pool.

 

[jim and meesie]

BTW, I also tell renters if they need more towels, just grab a few extra from the pool.

That appears to be a whole other ball of wax!!!!

 

[Dean]

A phone call made to MS made by a renter takes the same amount of time as a phone call made by a DVC member.

Unlikely to be true. If a member needs to call, usually they don't for most questions, they ask and get answers then move on. A novice who doesn't know the system is generally going to take a lot more time. I not saying right or wrong, only that there is a difference.

Why should I use the member I'm renting from as my personal travel agent?

You shouldn't, but neither should a non member use DVC MS for this service. There are limited things that MS can and should do for a non member and the short list includes adding the DP and confirming. Even requests should not be entered by MS on the say so of a non member other than for II exchangers who don't have other options and pay for the service.

 

[crisi]

For example, I know crisi does, and my daughter does, have a real medical necessity for a non-smoking room. I can take it or leave it, but DD3goingon23 can't breathe.

I don't. We don't like smoke, but no one is likely to end up in the hospital with an asthma attack in our household. I don't know that I would own DVC if we did have someone like that. Try, frankly, isn't good enough for those circumstances. (I have written that I have a cousin whose daughter has asthma that badly. And I've written about my "friend" who will claim asthma that bad to get a non-smoking room, but spends a whole lot of time in smokey bars when it suits her without a hospital trip.)

My DH and I have talked about "what happens when we get into a room that really stinks" and we've agreed that there are many nice hotels in the Disney area, and we'd sacrifice the points and spend a night somewhere else, and try again for a new room the next day. But that would get to be an expensive proposition for most people. But both us and the kids can tolerate a little stale smoke - it would have to be stinky before we'd move.

 

[Dean]

That appears to be a whole other ball of wax!!!!

Particularly since DVC tells me that it costs more to launder pool towels than regular towels and it's obviously an attempt to get around the extra charge for getting an extra towel set.

 

[drakethib]

Members have a hard enough time trying to get in to Member Services without non-members calling in to see if they still have a reservation. And can they request Magical Express. And how about balloons for little Billy since his birthday is only 25 days away. Yada, yada, yada.

It's not called Renter's Services. It's called Member Services. If you need something, contact the member and they should be the one calling MS, not you.

Good Night, she just asked a question.

While I agree with the member should be the one making the call, there is no need to be rude about it.

My gosh.

 

[greenban]

Members have a hard enough time trying to get in to Member Services without non-members calling in to see if they still have a reservation. And can they request Magical Express. And how about balloons for little Billy since his birthday is only 25 days away. Yada, yada, yada.

It's not called Renter's Services. It's called Member Services. If you need something, contact the member and they should be the one calling MS, not you.

I'm sorry, but this isn't true from my personal experience. Perhaps I'm lucky, or just persistent. But just like a train wreck, when a member posts one of those "WHAT's UP MS TELEPHONE?" or "ANYONE GET THROUGH TO MS TODAY?" threads, I can't help but try the (800) # (I'm bad, so go ahead and flame me) and in every case I gotten through without a problem.

The worst that has ever happened to me personally, is having to redial 5 times and a 15 minute wait, at the Christmas 11 month window, and guess what, not only did I expect that, I still got through!

Yes, additional calls, (By members or renters) will increase usage of the DVC Advisors, but I have yet to be shut out. And I call atleast once a week, having to book many vacations.

So, I at least have not been impacted by the terrible telephone tieup!

-Tony

 

[Luigi's Girl]

Well, none, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Actually, 7. I think that's enough for an opinion.

This post cracked me up. You go girl!

 

[Doctor P]

I'm sorry, but this isn't true from my personal experience. Perhaps I'm lucky, or just persistent. But just like a train wreck, when a member posts one of those "WHAT's UP MS TELEPHONE?" or "ANYONE GET THROUGH TO MS TODAY?" threads, I can't help but try the (800) # (I'm bad, so go ahead and flame me) and in every case I gotten through without a problem.

The worst that has ever happened to me personally, is having to redial 5 times and a 15 minute wait, at the Christmas 11 month window, and guess what, not only did I expect that, I still got through!

Yes, additional calls, (By members or renters) will increase usage of the DVC Advisors, but I have yet to be shut out. And I call atleast once a week, having to book many vacations.

So, I at least have not been impacted by the terrible telephone tieup!

-Tony

4 of the last 5 times I have called I have encountered multiple busy signals before getting through and then been on hold for 18 minutes or more. In a couple of those cases, after getting through and before being being put on hold, the phone rang for a full 5 minutes before getting picked up to put me on hold. I would consider that pretty busy.