Rented DVC points expiring—any hope?

[Sandisw]

I have Capital One Venture Card. Didn’t see that as an option for that card.

We found the same thing. t does not have travel protection, My DD has some issues with travel recently and we looked in to it as well.

 

[donp]

This! If I sold a good/service to a consumer that I can not provide, for whatever reason, I have to issue a refund. The implied contract is, consumer gives me X for my Y. If I can not provide Y, then, I should not receive/keep X. How is this not a universal understanding and...not an attorney, but, pretty certain...law in all 50 states?

But the contract says “not refundable” unless the owner cancels the reservation. Nowhere in the contract is there anything about something like this, though, where Disney will cancel the reservation! But, when I reached out to the broker, he referred back to the fact that the contract states this is non-refundable, and sounds like he will see what the owner might be willing to do. Until it is officially canceled (which it almost certainly will be), I am not sure what the owner will do. It makes logical sense to me what you are saying, and it seems like the “right” and “kind” thing would be to refund my money. That said, I am not sure there is a way to recoup from a legal standing.

 

[Tbella]

But the contract says “not refundable” unless the owner cancels the reservation. Nowhere in the contract is there anything about something like this, though, where Disney will cancel the reservation! But, when I reached out to the broker, he referred back to the fact that the contract states this is non-refundable, and sounds like he will see what the owner might be willing to do. Until it is officially canceled (which it almost certainly will be), I am not sure what the owner will do. It makes logical sense to me what you are saying, and it seems like the “right” and “kind” thing would be to refund my money. That said, I am not sure there is a way to recoup from a legal standing.

Like I said, I am not an attorney, but if you sell a good/service and can't deliver the good/service, and are unwilling to refund the money, that can and should be categorized as theft. You were willing and able to receive good/service but it was not provided to you. Plus you are the consumer, they are the business (both the DVC Owner and the Broker) and hold a larger fiduciary obligation to you. Yes, most will argue with me that they are simply renting their points, but by doing so, you are assuming the role of a business. Think of it this way, Airbnb is refunding all renters at this time, even though most of those contracts are nonrefundable. I just don't see how you can keep payment for lodging that is no longer available.

Added:
Whatever lose the DVC owner has, they should take it up with Disney. Yes, your contract says that the reservation is nonrefundable, but your contract also says that you will be provided with lodging at a certain date at a certain resort. A contract has to be 2 sided, at least that's what I remember form business school and it has been a while. You get X they get Y.

 

[donp]

Like I said, I am not an attorney, but if you sell a good/service and can't deliver the good/service, and are unwilling to refund the money, that can and should be categorized as theft. You were willing and able to receive good/service but it was not provided to you. Plus you are the consumer, they are the business (both the DVC Owner and the Broker) and hold a larger fiduciary obligation to you. Yes, most will argue with me that they are simply renting their points, but by doing so, you are assuming the role of a business. Think of it this way, Airbnb is refunding all renters at this time, even though most of those contracts are nonrefundable. I just don't see how you can keep payment for lodging that is no longer available.

Added:
Whatever lose the DVC owner has, they should take it up with Disney. Yes, your contract says that the reservation is nonrefundable, but your contract also says that you will be provided with lodging at a certain date at a certain resort. A contract has to be 2 sided, at least that's what I remember form business school and it has been a while. You get X they get Y.

I hope you are right!

 

[Tbella]

My husband just told me it's not a fiduciary obligation but it you should be protected by Florida consumer laws.

 

[starry_solo]

But the contract says “not refundable” unless the owner cancels the reservation. Nowhere in the contract is there anything about something like this, though, where Disney will cancel the reservation! But, when I reached out to the broker, he referred back to the fact that the contract states this is non-refundable, and sounds like he will see what the owner might be willing to do. Until it is officially canceled (which it almost certainly will be), I am not sure what the owner will do. It makes logical sense to me what you are saying, and it seems like the “right” and “kind” thing would be to refund my money. That said, I am not sure there is a way to recoup from a legal standing.

file a dispute with your credit card company for services not rendered (after the date of the reservation comes). Provide a copy of David’s email for a voucher that says that it has no cash value....

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I had tickets to an FIS World Cup event. The tickets said no refunds no matter what.

When cancelled, there were no refunds.

 

[cm8]

I had tickets to an FIS World Cup event. The tickets said no refunds no matter what.

When cancelled, there were no refunds.

That’s the thing some are having trouble with. They seem to think No Refunds only apply if it’s of their OWN doing.

 

[Upatnoon]

I had tickets to an FIS World Cup event. The tickets said no refunds no matter what.

When cancelled, there were no refunds.

This FIS World Cup Event issued refunds. Maybe you just haven't got your refund yet.

https://skiworldcupfinalscortina2020.com/en/

 

[Tbella]

That’s the thing some are having trouble with. They seem to think No Refunds only apply if it’s of their OWN doing.

Event tickets may be different as it says on the ticket if the event is canceled no refunds, and even then, I don't think they can get away with that in a court of law. However, when it comes to lodging, if the property is no longer available than the contract is null and void. Therefore, the payment must be returned. Now, if the renter for some reason can't get to the property but the property is there for the renting, and the reservation is non refundable, then the renter has no obligation to return the payment.

 

[Tbella]

I just read that Disney World is contemplating not opening till 1/21. If you think that DVC owners don't have to refund the renters during this period, I think Florida small claims courts will be bogged down with court cases when they reopen.

 

[Sandisw]

I just read that Disney World is contemplating not opening till 1/21. If you think that DVC owners don't have to refund the renters during this period, I think Florida small claims courts will be bogged down with court cases when they reopen.

I think the bigger issues are for renters using brokers. At lease one broker is not returning money to renters, even when an owner is willing to refund what they have been paid,

Many owners in private rentals are working with renters, even given the no refunds clause,

I do not think resorts will be closed that long, especially DVC ones as it causes major issues since It’s a timeshare. They are under an obligation to open those resorts as soon as possible, and it may not be on the same timetable of the parks.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

This FIS World Cup Event issued refunds. Maybe you just haven't got your refund yet.

https://skiworldcupfinalscortina2020.com/en/

No, I had tickets to a different one, and I will not be getting a refund. Their terms and their cancellation notice was quite clear. I had tickets to Minneapolis, to cheer on Jessie and Sophie and Rosie on home soil.

 

[cmrdgrs]

file a dispute with your credit card company for services not rendered (after the date of the reservation comes). Provide a copy of David’s email for a voucher that says that it has no cash value....

This renter used a different broker to book their reservation. The broker is sticking to the non-refundable agreement from what I gather is posted here.

 

[cmrdgrs]

I have rented DVC points through www.bookdvc.com (broker) for AKL in May. Unlike David’s Rental, they do not appear to be offering the future rental credit, and these rental points expire the end of May. What I am reading is that the future of these points is undecided, but very well may just expire (I have read all the commentary about rental inventory, etc). Of course, there are terms written in the contract stating that cancellations for “any reason” will not be issued a refund. That said, BookDVC recognizes this is a unique situation and still fluid. I guess my question is, what is fair to request of the DVC owner via the broker if Disney decides to just let these points expire? I am out thousands of dollars, where the owner is out the maintenance fees on those points (and I guess one year of the overall cost of those points on his/her purchase price??). I get that it is a bummer for the owner, but it is bigger bummer for me. Do I request my money back? Do I request the difference of rental fee minus the maintenance fee? It just seems like if the DVC owner did not refund quite a bit of the rental that he/she would just be taking big time advantage of me (meaning not only would they not just recoup their maintenance fee cost, but would have over doubled that figure). Any insight or suggestions are appreciated!

Modified to include link

For now, I would call the credit card company and discuss what your options are if the resort is closed in May. Is a chargeback possible in this scenario?

Yes, the contract says no refunds, but the once the service you paid for is not delivered your credit card company may reimburse you. You're not asking for travel protection, you are filing a chargeback in the event the reservation is canceled. Right now, no one knows when the resorts will open. It's quite possible that in May AKL will be open then this is a moot point. If the resort opens and the parks are closed, I still feel that the broker fulfilled their service to you even if you do not want to travel to WDW.

Your other option if the resort is closed and your credit card company won't refund your money would be to take the owner to small claims court. According to the website I'd assume the company is based in Missouri. You can file in small claims court up to $5,000. If you live in the US and this is possible, if I was in your position, depending on the cost of the rental, I'd probably be willing to pursue this route. However, it will be a hassle, and I understand not all people want to go to this length.

https://www.courts.mo.gov/page.jsp?id=704
Last option -- track down your owner if possible. Some owners are refunding renters even if they have expired points (I will be doing this for the renter I worked with privately if the resort is not open in July). Yes, it sucks for me, I used expiring banked points, but if I can't deliver the service/room as promised I can't in good conscience keep the money.

Good luck!

 

[Fred M]

I just read that Disney World is contemplating not opening till 1/21. If you think that DVC owners don't have to refund the renters during this period, I think Florida small claims courts will be bogged down with court cases when they reopen.

I think Florida small claims courts won't be all that common a venue. Unlike other lawsuits, for small claims, you generally have to sue the defendant where the defendant lives. For example, in California, if you can't serve the defendant in California (e.g. they don't have a business presence in California, they don't live in California), you can't use small claims. You have to file a limited civil action and either represent yourself or hire an attorney, Also, almost all states allow the contract to specify jurisdiction in case of a dispute.

 

[donp]

To be clear—I don’t know what the broker is going to do here. They are basically saying “wait”, and I get and respect that. I think he is seeing if Disney is going to offer anything first before he commits to what he plans on doing. And, that very well might be a refund or credit, he might say it is up to the owner, or he might just stick to the “no refund” policy. I will let you all know. For what it is worth, I will not venture into a lawsuit or small claims court. Not worth it for me. I was just trying to understand what might be reasonable or expected when this all goes down. A response yesterday from the company (a form, pat response) seemed more hopeful that they will be working with folks in my situation.