Rental Rates/Concerns

[DrTomorrow]

Very interesting.

If you do a seach by the eBay username, you'll see that this is the third or fourth auction for the Oct 24 OKW days they're selling. 5 nights (Sun-Thurs, duh) 10/24-29 (61 points) for $500; that's about $8.20 per point.

Hey, wait a minute. msdis - the OP - seems more than a bit off in the math department. The BWV item is a Preferred View Studio, Sun 9/5 - Fri 9/10 at a Buy.It.Now price of $799. Using CaskBill's DVC Planner, that adds up to 60 points, or $13.31 per point.

And still no takers....

 

[disneyberry]

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
I agree with SoCalKDG; I'll take $450 for a few phone calls and emails!

And now we have a chance to actually see how the market values a DVC point, by watching this auction. If the points are really worth $17 each, then someone will snap this up, otherwise we'll have some evidence that their value is less - eBay is the "unseen hand" in action.

Time will tell....

<font face="times" size="+0">See, it's not that any of us are saying points are worth $17 each, because the key here is that what members rent out are NOT <i>points</i>, but <i>reservations</i>. So the question should not be "are points worth $17 each" but "is a BWV studio worth $155/night"?

Besides, the auction only looks like it might be priced at $17/pt if it's a Standard View Studio. It looks like this owner just put up another auction and is only pricing their OKW studio at $12 - $13/pt, so maybe that Std View comment at the bottom is a typo, and it truly is a Preferred View Studio, which means that he/she is only pricing it at $13/pt.

A prospective renter needs to compare apples to apples. You don't compare the lower priced WL or AKL vs. BWV. Swan/Dolphin is a bit closer in comparison, but at $139 + tax = $155/night, it's the same cost as this auction, and the S/D is not truly a Disney-run resort, so again, not apples to apples.

BTW, SoCalKDG, you make it sound too easy "a few phone calls/emails". Trust me, problems can and do happen, and you could end up spending many hours dealing with them. I've only rented out 2 times before for very small quantities of points, and in a way, it's just not worth the time. But, what can you do when you've got extra expiring points you know you can't use up? At least <i>some</i> of the prospective renters are very nice people that I'm glad to have made an acquaintance with... It's ironic, I bought DVC so I wouldn't have to deal with the rental market anymore. Hopefully when some kids come along, we'll be using up all our points for ourselves then.</font>

 

[LIFERBABE]

Oh and don't forget that the S&D charges a $10 night Resort Fee that is not included in the nightly rate, plus taxes.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Originally posted by disneyberry
<font face="times" size="+0">See, it's not that any of us are saying points are worth $17 each, because the key here is that what members rent out are NOT <i>points</i>, but <i>reservations</i>. So the question should not be "are points worth $17 each" but "is a BWV studio worth $155/night"?
</font>

Um, that's exactly what Johnny Fedora DID say: "This Ebay price is more in line with what members should be receiving for rented points."

And while the auction on eBay is a reservation, all we DVCers have to rent is points....

 

[SoCalKDG]

BTW, SoCalKDG, you make it sound too easy "a few phone calls/emails". Trust me, problems can and do happen, and you could end up spending many hours dealing with them. I've only rented out 2 times before for very small quantities of points, and in a way, it's just not worth the time. But, what can you do when you've got extra expiring points you know you can't use up? At least some of the prospective renters are very nice people that I'm glad to have made an acquaintance with... It's ironic, I bought DVC so I wouldn't have to deal with the rental market anymore. Hopefully when some kids come along, we'll be using up all our points for ourselves then.

I like being quoted, but I didn't say that one.

I believe that smaller transactions should cost more than just $10 per point. Maybe charge $10 per point plus a $50 reservation fee. Something like that.

A prospective renter needs to compare apples to apples. You don't compare the lower priced WL or AKL vs. BWV.

Why can't WL or AKL be compared to BWV's? They seem equal in theme, location, room quality, size, pool, etc. Am I missing something? I bet those VWL owners might disagree.

It's ironic, I bought DVC so I wouldn't have to deal with the rental market anymore. Hopefully when some kids come along, we'll be using up all our points for ourselves then.

I'll take some free points to save you the trouble.

 

[disneyberry]

Originally posted by SoCalKDG
I like being quoted, but I didn't say that one.

<font face="times" size="+0">Whoops, my bad. You're right, that one wasn't you. Sorry 'bout that misquote. (I knew I would get myself into trouble jumping into this thread... argh.)</font>

Why can't WL or AKL be compared to BWV's? They seem equal in theme, location, room quality, size, pool, etc. Am I missing something? I bet those VWL owners might disagree.

<font face="times" size="+0">I'm not saying that WL or AKL are any less in terms of value than BWV. (I absolutely love both WL and AKL!) But they are different in terms of location in the sense that they're not walking distance to Epcot + MGM. More importantly, for some strange reason Disney prices WL and AKL hotel rooms much cheaper than the Epcot resorts, even when you look at the AP or room only code rates. So because of what the rates are directly from Disney, I don't think it's really fair to compare the price of a discounted WL/AKL room vs. the price of a BWV room.</font>

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
Um, that's exactly what Johnny Fedora DID say: "This Ebay price is more in line with what members should be receiving for rented points."
And while the auction on eBay is a reservation, all we DVCers have to rent is points....

<font face="times" size="+0">I guess I didn't interpret what Johnny said the same way. But, it was wrong of me to speak for "everyone". However, I still stand on my belief that what all owners ever rent out are <i>reservations</i> and not points. Transferring points between members is a different story, and that's the only time that members are renting out <i>points</i>. I don't know if I'm explaining this that well, but hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.

BTW, what the heck is wrong with the DISboards today? The server is so slow.</font>

 

[married@wdw]

Originally posted by disneyberry
font face="times" size="+0">I'm not saying that WL or AKL are any less in terms of value than BWV. (I absolutely love both WL and AKL!) But they are different in terms of location in the sense that they're not walking distance to Epcot + MGM. More importantly, for some strange reason Disney prices WL and AKL hotel rooms much cheaper than the Epcot resorts, even when you look at the AP or room only code rates. So because of what the rates are directly from Disney, I don't think it's really fair to compare the price of a discounted WL/AKL room vs. the price of a BWV room.</font>

For many people, especially those with children or that do spend ample time at the resort, the kitchenette and larger bathroom in the DVC studios is also a big benefit over a regular room at a Deluxe resort. I'd take a studio at VWL over a regular room at WL anyday -- the value to me is much greater.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Many times, renters only want the weekdays where it is beneficial for them to pay $10/pt. If a renter rents the weekend too, the $10/pt better for the DVCer.

For DVCers who do rent out points, there's almost a need for a two-tier rental price like $15/pt for Sun-thurs and $8/pt for Fri-Sat (when added to a weeknight stay). This would give a more even dollar amount per night, and more renters may add a day or two their five day vacation. This would also help reduce all those Sunday/Thursday rental requests.

 

[Wish I lived in Fl]

Rented small amount of points twice. Wouldn't be willing to pay more than $10.00 per point because of risk involved. I paid with the understanding there would be no refund. So if i couldn't use the reservation the money would be lost entirely unlike a fully refundable hotel reservation.

Are the BCV studios like a BC hotel room?
I loved the location and SAB but hated having 1 bed and 1 fold out couch instead of 2 beds.

 

[Deep-Thots]

I don't mean to kick a dead horse here, but another factor to be added into the equation is that of time-of-year.

Someone already said that it is not points that are being rented out, but a reservation, and that's true. But, it would also be worthwhile to factor in the "when" of the reservation.

For example, the question could be sked in the following way:

"Is an [insert room type here] at DVC Resort [insert resort name here] during the period from [insert date, and season] to [insert date and season] worth $[insert amount here]?"

I'd guess that most people would say that this auction isn't worth the money: it's during low season (kids already back in school; rainy season) and doesn't include the all-important Saturday night stay (for airline travel value), for starters.

Just my $.02

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by msdis
I hope no-one buys this and they find it not worthy of their time and they find a new "hobby". I have no problem with renters for the right reason but this has all the readings of a DVC for hire.

Care to share your definition of the "right reason". I'll tell you mine right now. Because the person who owns the points choses to. And I don't care how much they ask or they get and IMO it's unreasonable for anyone else to do so. Anyone who is concerned about renting should also be concerned about Disney renting.

Don't forget the seller has other costs and risk involved like the verification process and listsing/selling fees. As for comparing to AKL or WL, don't forget to add in the taxes at around 13%. Plus, IMO, a studio at BWV (or any other DVC studio) is far superior to either the AKL or WL rooms. I'm sure they just copied a previous ad and forgot to change the standard view terminology. I'd suspect it's really preferred view and as such the costs are reasonable for the bidder, renter as well, not that it matters to us unless we were thinking about bidding.

 

[rphjr]

I would bet that there is not a confirmed reservation. September is so not busy. I would bet the seller just asked MS about availabilty and listed the reservation. Note he says other days are posibily available in the auction. He is not risking losing the points to a holding account. He's just going to make the reservation if someone buys

I do think this type of rental though could have an adverse affect on DVC. Because of the structure of the points with weekends being so high, most of the people who rent for profit do not rent weekends. This is so because Disney does not have higher rates on weekends. If you don't rent weekends you can get more per point and still look like a great deal to renters who are comparing prices against Disney. In reality that's what really should set the price per point, how much of a discount from the disney resort price it takes to sway people to rent from you. An arbitrary price of $10.00 just doesn't seem right in a free market. Let the market set the price... Anyway back to the potential problem. If more and more people become professional renters, more and more of the prime time weekday nights will be gobbled up by them. THis will leave only weekends open. I know I would not take a trip to WDW for just a weekend stay. I'm sure most DVC'ers feel the same way. With a lot of unsused weekend day comes a lot of unused points. Eventually people will start losing there points for lack of getting reservations, or be forced to trade them to Disney for a meager $5.00 a point for a stay at another Disney resort or one of their "collections". Of course if this type of way out of balance points usage does occur maybe DVC will be forced to re-allocate points to make weekends cheaper and weekdays more expensive. I'm sure that would also be thought of as bad by a lot of DVCers who don't stay weekends. I usually stay a whole week when I visit so if the points re-allocate but the week rate stays the same I really don't care.

Anyone care to comment...

 

[BluesBro]

I noticed that the eBayer sold another vacation recently on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3257&item=2252462898

July 11-16 BoardWalk Standard Studio (55 pts)
The auction ended at $799 ($14.5 per point)

The buyer was very happy and felt that they got a great price(which they did over going through Disney.com)

Question: If you had a co-worker offer you $14 per point knowing that they were saving hundreds of dollars over Disney.com, would you turn them down?

This DVC owner is just being creative in renting his/her points.
They are using their brain to make more than the standard $10 per point.

I don't see a problem with this.

 

[PolyConFan]

As a DVC owner, I couldn't care less if people rented their points for $1 or $1000, their points, their money, their decision. People who complain about the price being too high are as bad as those complaining that the price is too low.

 

[LisaSt]

I say post it on e bay and get what you can there why not they are that persosn points and they are available for them to rent out in any way they see fit. If they can get more money for them on e bay than here or any other board then so be it and congrats to them for going that avenue.

 

[lulu71]

Originally posted by PolyConFan
As a DVC owner, I couldn't care less if people rented their points for $1 or $1000, their points, their money, their decision. People who complain about the price being too high are as bad as those complaining that the price is too low.

I so agree with you!!!

 

[Sabor]

I have been an OKW member since 98. The contract was a resale with banked points. Even making two trips a year we were always in the banking mode. Then came a year 2002 that we would not be able to make any trips.
So I sold 5 night studio rentals on Ebay. I am not in the DVC business but figured let me get some cash for points I cannot use.
I rented 6 auctions on Ebay (not at the same time). They were 40 points each (240) my auctions totaled $3780.00 well above the 10-12 point range on the rent trade boards here.

The bottom line is ECONOMICS - Ebay truly is Supply and Demand in its purest form. The market will determine what the reservations are worth. I let my bidders pick there dates subject to availabilty.

I believe it was fair to all involved my highest went for $820
( $164 a night but remember no 11% tax) by no means rippng off the bidder.

DVC is not intended to be used for profit but it is nice to be able to recoup when you cannot use the points.

 

[msdis]

.

 

[kweaver]

Originally posted by rphjr
Anyway back to the potential problem. If more and more people become professional renters, more and more of the prime time weekday nights will be gobbled up by them. THis will leave only weekends open. I know I would not take a trip to WDW for just a weekend stay. I'm sure most DVC'ers feel the same way.

There are tons of us DVCers who only book weekdays right now. I don't see what renters have to do with it.

I think this "potential problem" gets much more air time than it's worth. Considering the ratio of DVC members (80,000 and growing) to the number of listings available on ebay on any given day, it is obvious that there are very few "professional renters". Certainly not enough to make a dent in the point charts. I don't forsee the number of professional renters growing dramatically over the years either...especially compared to the number of DVCers who use their points themselves.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by kweaver
There are tons of us DVCers who only book weekdays right now. I don't see what renters have to do with it.

I think this "potential problem" gets much more air time than it's worth. Considering the ratio of DVC members (80,000 and growing) to the number of listings available on ebay on any given day, it is obvious that there are very few "professional renters". Certainly not enough to make a dent in the point charts. I don't forsee the number of professional renters growing dramatically over the years either...especially compared to the number of DVCers who use their points themselves.

ITA. And I am willing to bet that Disney (via CRO) rents out proportionally more Friday and Saturday nights to the general public for cash than it does Sundays - Thursdays. In my experience, non-DVC members (especially those within driving distances) prefer weekends over weekdays. Many stay over the weekends on both ends of the trip. For example, there are already reports of weekends in early December being fully booked at most of the on site non-DVC resorts and yet there is plenty of availability for the corresponding weeknights.

As far as I'm concerned, since DVC reservations are a "want" not a "need" and since the rules are the same for all owners, I see nothing at all wrong with "renting" DVC reservations for whatever the market will bear.


Best wishes - even to those who do not agree with me!