Rental Rates/Concerns

[CRSNDSNY]

Can someone please explain this portion of our DVC contract's checklist?

5. You acknowledge that your purchase of an Ownership Interest is for your personal use as a vacation experience and not for the purpose of acquiring an income or appreciating investment.

At what point is the line crossed when you are renting your points out?

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Originally posted by CRSNDSNY
Can someone please explain this portion of our DVC contract's checklist?

5. You acknowledge that your purchase of an Ownership Interest is for your personal use as a vacation experience and not for the purpose of acquiring an income or appreciating investment.

At what point is the line crossed when you are renting your points out?

While it seems like various portions of the contract has language that is contradictory, when you delve beneath the surface to the true meaning, it may not be. In this instance what is being said is done to protect DVC and the developer than it is to limit what we can or can't do with the property. By signing the contract, we are acknowledging that we do not expect this purchase to appreciate in value and that it has no value as a business thus protecting the developer from us coming back and saying that "my guide told me to reserve Christmas week every year and then rent it out for lots of money." Considering guides are saying that (as evidenced in this thread), the developer needs this language for protection.

While renting DVC points may seem a good business to someone now, the risks of the timeshare market are just too big. Can you imagine what would happen to thse folks who rent out as a business if all of a sudden there was some major negative world wide event? Or even if Disney spun off their timeshare division to another company at some point in the future?

MY .02

HBC

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CarolMN
I'd love to know how Disney determines which nights and which size rooms to rent to the public (in order to turn points into cash required for member use of non-DVC options). There seems to be a fairly plentiful supply of DVC cash rooms available for all times of the year (even those times that are vey, very popular with members), especially if one is willing to pay rack rates!

Verbal resport from Matt Gibbs when he was there was that DVC purposefully does not rent out high demand times. If they did, they would have a better exchange rate but less availability for the members. As for exactly how they determin which time to give up, I don't know and doubt most of the people at MS do either.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CRSNDSNY
Can someone please explain this portion of our DVC contract's checklist?

5. You acknowledge that your purchase of an Ownership Interest is for your personal use as a vacation experience and not for the purpose of acquiring an income or appreciating investment.

At what point is the line crossed when you are renting your points out?

This has nothing to do with the rental issue in question even though some would like to think it does. One of the common scams timeshares run is the "buy and rent it for a profit" ploy. This is simply a way for DVC to protect themselves from being accused of this. Personal use within the POS is linked with personal rentals. Use by the member, guests and their leasee's are all listed as "personal use" within the POS.

 

[ripleysmom]

I understand that the deductions that you are discussing are real. I have a consulting business from which I derive a small income. I also take those deductions you are referring to.

That being said unless those items you are deducting are STRICTLY being used for the business of renting (and I'm thinking that is not the case) then the deductions are subject to %s.


"I can guarantee you if it were I, I'd be deducting all those things plus a home office."

That is of course your prerogative. If you wish to subject yourself to audit...hey go for it. The IRS cracked down on those deductions a few years ago and they have become a possible audit flag. Just make sure that, if you are taking that home office deduction, none of what you are doing is stretching the truth.

Just remember they didn't get Al Capone for murder, they got him for tax evasion.

 

[CRSNDSNY]

Originally posted by Dean
This has nothing to do with the rental issue in question even though some would like to think it does. One of the common scams timeshares run is the "buy and rent it for a profit" ploy. This is simply a way for DVC to protect themselves from being accused of this. Personal use within the POS is linked with personal rentals. Use by the member, guests and their leasee's are all listed as "personal use" within the POS.

So abuse of rental may be more of an ethical issue rather than a legal issue.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by ripleysmom
I understand that the deductions that you are discussing are real. I have a consulting business from which I derive a small income. I also take those deductions you are referring to.

That being said unless those items you are deducting are STRICTLY being used for the business of renting (and I'm thinking that is not the case) then the deductions are subject to %s.


"I can guarantee you if it were I, I'd be deducting all those things plus a home office."

That is of course your prerogative. If you wish to subject yourself to audit...hey go for it. The IRS cracked down on those deductions a few years ago and they have become a possible audit flag. Just make sure that, if you are taking that home office deduction, none of what you are doing is stretching the truth.

Just remember they didn't get Al Capone for murder, they got him for tax evasion.

There are rules to these deductions. And of course one has to deduct the percentage use for part of them and meet certain requirements. In the scenario being discussed, I believe the person would meet the requirements. If the second phone line were strictly for the computer and/or rental "business", that's 100%. Cell phone and the like would depend on useage patterns, etc. If anyone defaulted or points were lost, that's a direct off the top deduction. The point is that there are additional deductions and they have value and would reduce the actual true income and the taxes accordingly. And in the end, the actualy tax bill on this type of income would be quite small overall, likely significantly less than $1K per year.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by CRSNDSNY
So abuse of rental may be more of an ethical issue rather than a legal issue.

Only if one convinces themselves it's not ethical as some have obviously done. Assuming of course that the reservation in question were available to all members at THAT resort. Special season preference lists and lottery's would be a totally different situation, IMO. And even then, DVC showed no interest in who was renting vs personal use, from what I could see. Applying the idea of "ethics" to this situation as we're discussing it certainly demeans the word, IMO.

 

[CRSNDSNY]

Originally posted by Dean
Applying the idea of "ethics" to this situation as we're discussing it certainly demeans the word, IMO.

ouch. that hurts

We're all entitled to our own opinions.

 

[jmminarik]

Originally posted by Dean
Applying the idea of "ethics" to this situation as we're discussing it certainly demeans the word, IMO.

Well, isn't the entire reason this thread exists is because some DVCers' sense of right and wrong is being challenged by the concept of reserving weeks for the purpose of intentionally renting them out? Obviously that's ethical to some people, and totally unethical to others. Or am I just missing your point?

-Joe

 

[CarolAnnC]

A reminder to stay courteous, polite and flameless here please. I would like to see this topic remain open on the DVC Board, so please do not send it on a downward spiral. Thank you very much everyone. Happy Friday!

 

[gmboy95]

Nothing like some good member-on-member crime...I can honestly say that this issue has been beaten to death, and begs for all of your mercy....The ice cream headache is pounding....cant we all just get along......

 

[Madpotter]

Originally posted by gmboy95
Nothing like some good member-on-member crime...I can honestly say that this issue has been beaten to death, and begs for all of your mercy....The ice cream headache is pounding....cant we all just get along......

I agree.

 

[rocketriter]

21 pages of indignation is enough.

 

[anniet]

This thread did almost die- twice.

There were two seperate threads that were added to this one.

Apparently the mods felt it appropriate to add them here, even though they were variants of the topic, thus resurrecting this particular thread.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Click here to view an explanation of our "Ongoing Topic" threads.

Previously, these topics would have been moved over to Debate. We are trying to accomodate those who would like to have the discussions after the demise of Debate here on the DVC Board. However, all DIS Posting Guidelines apply on this board.

If there are any further questions, please email the moderators and/or Webmasters. Thank you. And now back to our Rental Concerns discussion....

 

[Crissup]

Originally posted by anniet
Apparently the mods felt it appropriate to add them here, even though they were variants of the topic, thus resurrecting this particular thread.

Makes sense to me. Why start it all over again. If people wanna continue arguing about it, then they may as well continue it in the same thread. Maybe eventually, they'll realize it's the same old stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

 

[CarolAnnC]

If people wanna continue arguing about it,

This thread has now been edited to conform it to our DIS Posting Guidelines. Let's get back to discussing rental issues please without turning this into the Debate Board..

Posting Guidelines

 

[freediverdude]

Are there people out there really trying to make a home business out of renting these points? With tax deductions and everything?!
It doesn't sound like somebody could make enough money off of it to make it their business. If so, then they need to be paying a commission to the disboards as their agent

 

[CarolAnnC]

I can be bribed..er um paid with DVC points!!