rent a car without insurance?

[OKW Lover]

I'm amused/confused by the "loss of use" issue.

I can see that being a valid claim if the company has fully rented its fleet but don't understand how there can be a loss if the car would have just stayed on their lot anyway.

 

[DebbieB]

But have you ever totaled a rental car?

No, but I have my personal insurance and a credit card that covers the deductible and loss of use. Why would I pay another $23.99 a day for the rental co insurance? On a 7 day rental that's $168.

When I said I never had a problem, I meant I never had them say it was scratched or there was damage. One time I found a busted tail light when I got to the resort (didn't see it when walking around in the garage), I called them immediately and was not charged.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm amused/confused by the "loss of use" issue.

I can see that being a valid claim if the company has fully rented its fleet but don't understand how there can be a loss if the car would have just stayed on their lot anyway.

In most cases they can't come after the renter for loss of use. You can force them to prove that their entire fleet was rented during the time that the car was in the shop. Any credit card CDW coverage is going to make them prove the same thing if they are paying a claim. My bet is that loss of use is rarely ever paid.

 

[dioxide45]

I rented from Enterprise a few weeks ago... "You do know that your personal car insurance won't cover this rental" "You do know that you will be responsible for the full price of the car if anything happnes" "You do know that your credit card won't cover this rental" "I am sure your company doesn't want to be responsible for this car"" All this for a Toyota that probably cost $20K LOL! (It was STRIPPED)

I guess technically it's not "bullying" as they didnt' beat me or call me names, but... it's scare tactics. I finally told the agent that if he didn't shut up and just rent me the car I was walking. (It was a business rental. We are insured!)

Enterprise is off my list. 45 minutes to get the car with 15 of it attempts to "sell" me stuff I didn't need!

There was no "explaning" It was a hard sale pure and simple and it happens all the time. I would quit trying to defend your employer on this one. A simple search on here will show you WAY too many "horror" stories of outright lies or excessive pressure!

The fact that the clerks have quotas that they have to meet is a red flag that when desperate they will say and do just about anything.

 

[gmeh1]

I rented from Enterprise a few weeks ago... "You do know that your personal car insurance won't cover this rental" "You do know that you will be responsible for the full price of the car if anything happnes" "You do know that your credit card won't cover this rental" "I am sure your company doesn't want to be responsible for this car"" All this for a Toyota that probably cost $20K LOL! (It was STRIPPED)

I guess technically it's not "bullying" as they didnt' beat me or call me names, but... it's scare tactics. I finally told the agent that if he didn't shut up and just rent me the car I was walking. (It was a business rental. We are insured!)

Enterprise is off my list. 45 minutes to get the car with 15 of it attempts to "sell" me stuff I didn't need!

There was no "explaning" It was a hard sale pure and simple and it happens all the time. I would quit trying to defend your employer on this one. A simple search on here will show you WAY too many "horror" stories of outright lies or excessive pressure!

Sorry they are off your list, but, what he/she stated is, for the most part, true, your insurance won't cover loss of use neither will your credit card.
As to not defending them, never going to happen. Before I was employed by them I was a renter and never encountered any pressure, I observe the agents at the counter and I will stand by what I see. I rarely believe anything I read totally as I truly believe there are three sides to every story and I refuse to go by one side only.

 

[gmeh1]

I'm amused/confused by the "loss of use" issue.

I can see that being a valid claim if the company has fully rented its fleet but don't understand how there can be a loss if the car would have just stayed on their lot anyway.

Perhaps you cannot understand it, but, it is in their terms. IE: Dollar car:
A. Loss or Damage to the DOLLAR Vehicle: The renter and any additional drivers are absolutely liable for any loss or damage to the rental vehicle, even if someone else caused it or the cause is unknown, whether due to theft, fire, hail, flood, collision, vandalism, or any other cause, subject to limitations imposed by the law where the vehicle is rented. This liability will not exceed the full value of the vehicle, plus:

■Actual towing and storage charges;
■Loss of use;
■Diminution in value, regardless of whether the vehicle is repaired or not;
■All rental charges through the date you report the incident if not returnable or the return date, whichever is later;
■Any out-of-pocket expenses incurred by us as a result of the loss or damage to the vehicle;
■A reasonable administrative fee; and
■Pro-rata license plate fees, all as allowed by law.

Most, if not all, have similar language.

 

[gmeh1]

In most cases they can't come after the renter for loss of use. You can force them to prove that their entire fleet was rented during the time that the car was in the shop. Any credit card CDW coverage is going to make them prove the same thing if they are paying a claim. My bet is that loss of use is rarely ever paid.

And, they most certainly can come after the renter. Read the fine print on the rental car websites.

 

[dioxide45]

Sorry they are off your list, but, what he/she stated is, for the most part, true, your insurance won't cover loss of use neither will your credit card.

The problem is that the agent is making statements without knowing what your personal insurance will cover. They don't even know what kind of personal insurance or credit card CDW coverage you have. So an agent's statement like "your credit card won't cover loss of use" without knowing what your credit card coverage is, is a scare tactic. The fact is that most credit card CDW does cover loss of use.

 

[seashoreCM]

Open questions (not to be answered in the next 60 seconds)

Who is responsible for obtaining the log, you or the credit card company?

If you have general liability insurance (covers such things as someone slipping on your front porch or someone you knocked out in a fight) would that cover rental car loss of use (from your point of view, a claim defendable in court) if the insurance does not explicitly name that as an exclusion?

 

[dioxide45]

Visa will pay the claim without a log, MC insists upon a log, AMEX may or may not require a log.

And, they most certainly can come after the renter. Read the fine print on the rental car websites.

Sure they can come after the renter, but just like a credit card company, that renter can force them to prove the rental history via a log. If litigation is required, then so be it.

I have to agree with OrangeCountyCommuter, we see plenty of experiences where rental agents have bullied renters and pressured them when selling additional options. Sure it may vary from agent to agent, but when a company places quotas on their employees and turn a blind eye to scare tactics, shame on them.

Another thing that irritates me is the praying on the uninformed, half truths, and in fact some outright lies with the full tank of fuel option. We have often seen signs that are promoting the fuel option at MCO for Alamo. The sign noted the current local price of fuel. However when driving around Orlando, we never saw a station with prices that high. Except perhaps along 535 at I4. Perhaps that is where they get their prices for that sign. Using a small segment of the market to promote a very expensive and overpriced product is deceitful. This option should be sold on convenience alone, skip all the tricks to try to rip people off.

 

[dioxide45]

Open questions (not to be answered in the next 60 seconds)

Who is responsible for obtaining the log, you or the credit card company?

If you have credit card CDW coverage, you simply submit a claim to them. They take it from there. If they wish to argue a loss of use claim, it is up to them to do so.

If you have general liability insurance (covers such things as someone slipping on your front porch or someone you knocked out in a fight) would that cover rental car loss of use (from your point of view, a claim defendable in court) if the insurance does not explicitly name that as an exclusion?

You would need to check coverage with your personal insurance company. I doubt general liability coverage would cover anything with your car. It would cover property damage to property that you damaged while using the rental car. Just like when driving your own car.

 

[Lewisc]

FWIW, citizens of Puerto Rico are United States citizens (Jones-Shafroth Act of 1917), typically pay U.S. federal income taxes, etc.

Dick Taylor

I said citizens of PR and considered part of the US.

Puerto Rico

is classified by the U.S. government as an independent taxation authority by mutual agreement with the U.S. Congress. A common misconception is that residents of Puerto Rico do not have to pay federal taxes. Residents of the island pay federal taxes (import/export taxes, federal commodity taxes, social security taxes, etc.) and some even pay federal income taxes (Puerto Rico residents who are federal employees, or who do business with the federal government, Puerto Rico-based corporations that intend to send funds to the U.S., etc). While most residents of the island do not pay federal income tax, they do pay federal payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare), as well as Puerto Rico income taxes. In addition, because the cutoff point for income taxation is lower than that of the IRS code, and because the per-capita income in Puerto Rico is much lower than the average per-capita income on the mainland, more Puerto Rico residents pay income taxes to the local taxation authority than if the IRS code were applied to the island. Puerto Rico residents are eligible for Social Security benefits upon retirement. Puerto Rico is excluded from Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Puerto Rico receives less than 15% of the Medicaid funding it would be allotted as a state."

Not that this matters much in this conversation. LOL

You're right. It doesn't matter.

and also doesn't necessarily apply to insurance requirement rules at a rental car company.

+1 That's the question. I don't know the answer but there are circumstances where the rental agency can require insurance other then credit card or personal auto. Some UK residents rent through a third party which bundles rental with a major agency with required insurance and required pre-paid gas.

Again I don't know if a citizen of PR is in that category but the OP should check.

 

[OKW Lover]

In most cases they can't come after the renter for loss of use. You can force them to prove that their entire fleet was rented during the time that the car was in the shop. Any credit card CDW coverage is going to make them prove the same thing if they are paying a claim. My bet is that loss of use is rarely ever paid.

That's exactly why I couldn't understand the concern about "loss of use".

 

[gmeh1]

Sure they can come after the renter, but just like a credit card company, that renter can force them to prove the rental history via a log. If litigation is required, then so be it.

I have to agree with OrangeCountyCommuter, we see plenty of experiences where rental agents have bullied renters and pressured them when selling additional options. Sure it may vary from agent to agent, but when a company places quotas on their employees and turn a blind eye to scare tactics, shame on them.

Another thing that irritates me is the praying on the uninformed, half truths, and in fact some outright lies with the full tank of fuel option. We have often seen signs that are promoting the fuel option at MCO for Alamo. The sign noted the current local price of fuel. However when driving around Orlando, we never saw a station with prices that high. Except perhaps along 535 at I4. Perhaps that is where they get their prices for that sign. Using a small segment of the market to promote a very expensive and overpriced product is deceitful. This option should be sold on convenience alone, skip all the tricks to try to rip people off.

Our gas today for the FSO is 3.24 per gallon. Local area gas stations are at 3.25- 3.27. Prices in the Disney area are 3.23-5.89. Source: http://www.orlandogasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx For sure, if you drive, all around Orlando, you might find it for less. I don't see how you can call that an expensive and overpriced product. If you think you can do better, by all means, don't opt for it. It is an option that works for some people and not for others.

As to the insurance, read the jacket your rental agreement comes in. Actually they don't have to provide a log if it goes to court.
You are right, however, the agents don't know what type of insurance you carry or what your cc may cover, that is up to you to know, and you know what, most people do not know.

Bottom line, if you don't want coverage, don't opt for it, if you don't want the FSO, don't opt for it. But, unless you are an attorney or insurance agent or actually read the rental jacket that is provided for you, don't spout off "facts" without knowing what you are signing for or opting out of.

 

[dioxide45]

Our gas today for the FSO is 3.24 per gallon. Local area gas stations are at 3.25- 3.27. Prices in the Disney area are 3.23-5.89. Source: http://www.orlandogasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx For sure, if you drive, all around Orlando, you might find it for less. I don't see how you can call that an expensive and overpriced product. If you think you can do better, by all means, don't opt for it. It is an option that works for some people and not for others.

The reason I called it an expensive and overprice product had nothing to do with the price they are charging for a gallon of gas.

The problem with this product is that they will charge the renter up front for a full tank of fuel. This is also usually based on the average size of tank for cars in that class.

So lets look at a few scenarios and see how expensive this product is:

Scenario 1: The average tank size for the car class rented is say 13 gallons. The car you actually rent only holds 12 gallons. Take the $3.24 multiplied by 13 then divide that by the 12 gallons for the size of the tank. That works out to $3.51 per gallon. That doesn't sound so cheap, does it, when the price around town is $3.25?

Scenario 2: For this scenario lets say the tank size is 12 gallons and they charged you for 12 gallons up front. Thing is, no one is ever going to return the car on empty, it isn't really possible unless you are running on fumes. My guess is if you could get it back with a gallon of gas in the tank, that would be good. So at $3.24, that 12 gallon tank of gas cost $38.88 up front. You return it with 1 gallon in the tank. So you really only needed to have 11 gallons put in the tank. Based on 11 gallons at $38.88, that cost you $3.53 per gallon. That is more expensive than scenario 1. Lets say I can gamble and return it with a half gallon still in the tank. I still ended up paying $3.38 per gallon. A full 14 cents more per gallon than I was quoted up front.

Scenario 3: Night before dropping off the car, I realize I still have a half a tank. I am not going to drive around town just to burn off that tank, I am going to bed. So 12 gallons at $38.88 up front really cost me $6.48 per gallon for the actual 6 gallons I used. I returned the car half full. Ouch.

There is a reason that rental agencies want to push these products. They are a big profit center. I understand that there is a population of renters where the FSO and CDW products make sense. The FSO may work for the business traveler or someone who wants it for convenience only. It really doesn't make sense for the average traveler that can fill up at the station before dropping off the car.

The problem I have with the way these products are sold, is that they are sold to the uninformed with half truths. This is the same as how timeshares are sold and we know the reputation that industry has.

Don't get me wrong, I love Alamo and have never had a problem with a pushy clerk, rude and argumentative yes, but not pushy. Though we usually use the kiosk to check in, mainly so we can avoid the desk and these products being pushed on us.

 

[gmeh1]

The reason I called it an expensive and overprice product had nothing to do with the price they are charging for a gallon of gas.

The problem with this product is that they will charge the renter up front for a full tank of fuel. This is also usually based on the average size of tank for cars in that class.

So lets look at a few scenarios and see how expensive this product is:

Scenario 1: The average tank size for the car class rented is say 13 gallons. The car you actually rent only holds 12 gallons. Take the $3.24 multiplied by 13 then divide that by the 12 gallons for the size of the tank. That works out to $3.51 per gallon. That doesn't sound so cheap, does it, when the price around town is $3.25?

Scenario 2: For this scenario lets say the tank size is 12 gallons and they charged you for 12 gallons up front. Thing is, no one is ever going to return the car on empty, it isn't really possible unless you are running on fumes. My guess is if you could get it back with a gallon of gas in the tank, that would be good. So at $3.24, that 12 gallon tank of gas cost $38.88 up front. You return it with 1 gallon in the tank. So you really only needed to have 11 gallons put in the tank. Based on 11 gallons at $38.88, that cost you $3.53 per gallon. That is more expensive than scenario 1. Lets say I can gamble and return it with a half gallon still in the tank. I still ended up paying $3.38 per gallon. A full 14 cents more per gallon than I was quoted up front.

Scenario 3: Night before dropping off the car, I realize I still have a half a tank. I am not going to drive around town just to burn off that tank, I am going to bed. So 12 gallons at $38.88 up front really cost me $6.48 per gallon for the actual 6 gallons I used. I returned the car half full. Ouch.

There is a reason that rental agencies want to push these products. They are a big profit center. I understand that there is a population of renters where the FSO and CDW products make sense. The FSO may work for the business traveler or someone who wants it for convenience only. It really doesn't make sense for the average traveler that can fill up at the station before dropping off the car.

The problem I have with the way these products are sold, is that they are sold to the uninformed with half truths. This is the same as how timeshares are sold and we know the reputation that industry has.

Don't get me wrong, I love Alamo and have never had a problem with a pushy clerk, rude and argumentative yes, but not pushy. Though we usually use the kiosk to check in, mainly so we can avoid the desk and these products being pushed on us.

Just to be clear, when we quote the price of a tank of gas it is for the specific car you are renting. The FSO price shows up for us in the exit booth AFTER we "assign" the car. If you opt for it at the counter, online, or at the kiosk, it is an estimate that gets adjusted when your car is assigned at the exit.

The rest of your post makes sense and I have no debate with it. I sell it as a convienance, not as a cost savings measure. I also inform people that they will not receive a refund if they return it with any gas in it. It is in small print outside the exit booths, but, as we all know, no one reads the small print. I also use a stamp stating that no refund will be given on the contract when they opt for it. If they say no thank you, I say ok and then tell them exactly what stations to watch out for (those charging 5.79 per gallon) and give them directions to stations with a fair price. IE: 7-11 or Racetrack (north exit). I also make sure to tell them that the refuel cost is very high and to make sure they fill up before they return it. You would be amazed at how many people forget. Another thing I do is make sure the renter has a full tank of gas when they leave (mistakes happen) and adjust it if it is NOT full when they leave. We have that ability. I try very hard to make our renters happy, I do get commission on anything I sell, I do not have a quota and I do not hard sell anything (not in my personality), if they say No, I say Ok, no problelm, is there anything else I can help you with? I am good at what I do and I know I would not be good as a counter agent.
As to using the kiosk............BLESS YOU!!!! I can have you out the gate in 30 seconds (barring any computer malfunctions or friendly chit chat). Check the license, check the credit card, scan the car and you are good to go.

 

[LovesTimone]

Get the insurance, God forbid something would happen.

Here why I say this, A few years ago, some of my girlfriends and I had a girls only trip, we rented a car and my friend who rented the car did not want to get insurance, we were all like yes we want it, just in case. Myself and another friend left the night before due to airline sch. So the next morning when they were on there way back to the airport and to drop off the car, they were hit by a man who ran a red light. Thank God no-one was seriously hurt. But the officer charged both of them with the accident, I don't know how or why but that's what happened. Between her insurance and the rental company insurance she did not have have but about 300.00 out of pocket. Her insurance company did prove later that it was the other drivers fault and did refunded her money but it took about a year, to settle everything.

 

[Lewisc]

Do the rental agencies "top off" the cars? Many people fill up at the Hess station by WDW. The gauge will still read full but the tank is down a gallon or so.

Call that one Scenario 4 The renter can't win, even if the car runs out of gas and the car coasts to the check in line in the garage.

I don't know the "penalty" charge per gallon if you don't elect the pre-paid gas plan and don't return the car full so I can't do the math.

Scenario 5 The renter doesn't take the gas plan and doesn't fill up the tank. He returns the car about 3/4 full. I don't have the numbers to do the math but I suspect the renter is better off then if he selected the pre-paid plan but returned the car with 1/2 tank or so.

A person renting a car for a Disney vacation isn't likely to need a full tank of gas. A lot of people rent a car but spend all their time at, or near, WDW. Use the car to drive from the airport to their resort, to the parks and back to the airport. Those guests will be using less then half a tank.

Now assume a person is driving a lot. Busch Gardens. KSC. Legoland. That renter is likely to fill up the car at least once and will still wind up returning the car with 1/2 tank. There might be some renters who will carefully add just a few gallons as needed but unless you calculate your gas and return the car with only a gallon of gas you'll come out behind. That means the low fuel indicator will be on for our entire trip to MCO (as well as our last day or two in WDW). Most of us won't want to drive for a couple of days with the low fuel indicator on.

 

[gmeh1]

Do the rental agencies "top off" the cars? Many people fill up at the Hess station by WDW. The gauge will still read full but the tank is down a gallon or so.

Call that one Scenario 4 The renter can't win, even if the car runs out of gas and the car coasts to the check in line in the garage.

I don't know the "penalty" charge per gallon if you don't elect the pre-paid gas plan and don't return the car full so I can't do the math.

Scenario 5 The renter doesn't take the gas plan and doesn't fill up the tank. He returns the car about 3/4 full. I don't have the numbers to do the math but I suspect the renter is better off then if he selected the pre-paid plan but returned the car with 1/2 tank or so.

A person renting a car for a Disney vacation isn't likely to need a full tank of gas. A lot of people rent a car but spend all their time at, or near, WDW. Use the car to drive from the airport to their resort, to the parks and back to the airport. Those guests will be using less then half a tank.

Now assume a person is driving a lot. Busch Gardens. KSC. Legoland. That renter is likely to fill up the car at least once and will still wind up returning the car with 1/2 tank. There might be some renters who will carefully add just a few gallons as needed but unless you calculate your gas and return the car with only a gallon of gas you'll come out behind. That means the low fuel indicator will be on for our entire trip to MCO (as well as our last day or two in WDW). Most of us won't want to drive for a couple of days with the low fuel indicator on.

The only way the renter can win with the FSO is if he drives in on fumes or close to it. There is no penalty if you have FSO and you drive in empty.
There are many that do just that.

The refueling charge for those that don't opt for the FSO and do not refill is, today, 4.96.

I believe they top the tanks when the car is being readied to return to the line. The renter, at that point, has already checked out, so, he/she is not liable for that small amount of gas. Probably less than a gallon if we are talking Disney to OIA.

We usually, when we rented, opted for the FSO, but, we did drive a lot and put minimum amounts of gas in the car. Can't say we ever rode in on fumes, but, the light was on.

 

[Lewisc]

The refueling charge for those that don't opt for the FSO and do not refill is, today, 4.96.

A person who returns the car with 3/4 of a tank will pay around $15. A person who filled it up would probably pay around 3.25 or around $9.75. The "penalty" for not taking the time to fill up the car is around $5.00

Under almost any scenario, short of running out of gas while waiting to return your car, the pre-paid gas plan will cost you more then the $5.00 extra you'll pay if you return the car at less then empty. Light driving you'll only use 1/4 tank. Otherwise just gas once.

I have no problem gassing up on the way to the airport but even if I did the pre-paid gas plan is still a bad solution.