Real ID delayed again

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

Well that was a waste of time getting it done recently then

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I thought it was nuts too! I had my passport, original birth certificate and drivers license with me but had to go back home and get the marriage license and bring it back. Different States, different laws...

If one of your docs didn't match your married name that would be why. In terms of proof of citizenship your passport would have worked for that assuming it had your marriage name (and all your other docs matched that). If you provided your birth certificate you would need to provide a marriage license (or a divorce decree or court documents of name change for other reasons like adoption or legal name change request). For that reason I wouldn't give my birth certificate if I had a different document.

 

[MrsHammer]

Me too!

Another fellow Kentuckian here. Ky actually made things more difficult in my opinion because now there are 'regional' centers for DMV services. So, some people have to travel quite a distance in order to get this all done. Plus, if they happen to forget/not know they need a specific document, they would have to make another appt and another trip. Govt red tape at it's worst.

 

[Lilsia]

My wife had the same issue. Some of her ID had a middle initial instead of her middle name. She needed to obtain a copy of her first marriage license, 40 years ago, copy of divorce decree and a copy of her second marriage license. A real pita

What a pain that is. You would think that once someone changes it and gets their SS changed, that would be it.

 

[Lilsia]

It's just about a paper trail (however silly we may think that is) of your changes in name. It's all based off of documentation you have either provided in the past or are attempting to provide now. Provide docs with all your name being the same and accurate you're usually good to go. But once you provide a document that does not match another that triggers needing to reflect the paper trail.

I went with all my docs even though my name all matched. I had my updated passport, my updated DL, my updated SSN, and a certified copy of my marriage license (from when I updated my passport), plus the several proofs of residency. Because of what documents I had provided in the past the only two documents I needed was my renewal postcard and my updated passport. Because all names matched that was it. It was noted that the proof of citizenship I used to change my DL when I got married was my passport in my maiden name and so the DMV employee asked "do you have your passport with your married name, I've got it noted old passport in here".

This was heavily discussed in prior threads. In order for me to get a passport in my married name I had to provide a certified copy of my marriage license.

Some of this really depends on how much a state had stayed compliant in the REAL ID and how much paperwork they had been collecting. It was advised for my state if you had been during like 2012-2017 chances are you had provided most of the documents you needed.

Of course you would need your marriage license for your passport change originally. That is not the issue. The issue is that these woman have been using their married name legally, for 20+ years and now all of a sudden their ID is not valid anymore? Come on, that seems ridiculous. Especially since the DMV had been giving them a license in their married name for decades but not they might not be that person? It just sounds like some people don't have any common sense. Especially since the majority of married woman did not have to got through this hassle in other areas.

 

[sam_gordon]

Another fellow Kentuckian here. Ky actually made things more difficult in my opinion because now there are 'regional' centers for DMV services. So, some people have to travel quite a distance in order to get this all done. Plus, if they happen to forget/not know they need a specific document, they would have to make another appt and another trip. Govt red tape at it's worst.

I'm fortunate. One of the regional centers is in our town. I wandered down and was able to be seen immediately with no appointment. Of course, I did my homework and had all the paperwork (which isn't difficult, Ky has a website that walks you through it).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Of course you would need your marriage license for your passport change originally. That is not the issue. The issue is that these woman have been using their married name legally, for 20+ years and now all of a sudden their ID is not valid anymore? Come on, that seems ridiculous. Especially since the DMV had been giving them a license in their married name for decades but not they might not be that person? It just sounds like some people don't have any common sense. Especially since the majority of married woman did not have to got through this hassle in other areas.

Your ID is still valid, not sure where you're getting that. All of this stuff is about tracking the name changes which do primarily impact women who marry but also impact other people such as divorce, adoption and other legal name changes.

That's what they are looking for. You're not going to get any argument out of me about the hoops people have to go through. Perhaps look over REAL ID stuff because it's not that the DMV has been giving them a license in their married name for decades. This is about the requirements for Federal information being collected. States that were once compliant had to then become compliant again after more information was requested by the Federal government. I remember my state having been compliant since day one but then I think in what 2013 (or thereabouts) more information needed to be collected and once again states had to be in compliance again.

You do not have to get REAL ID if you don't want to. If your passport is in your married name fly with that or any other document (I know how a Global Entry card that I can use if I want to), if you don't want a REAL ID period don't get one.

**As to your majority of married women that would be inaccurate portrayal one of which you would have no idea is even correct. We, I, as a married woman understand how annoying it is to have to provide stuff but in my case my document changes have been the easiest with the State, SSN and Federal government, it's been the mundane day to day stuff that has given me the most trouble like bank cards, insurance paperwork, utility bills, etc. So for me the hassle you speak of has been in that area. I couldn't even cash half the checks from the wedding at my bank because people put AND instead of OR.

 

[Lilsia]

Your ID is still valid, not sure where you're getting that. All of this stuff is about tracking the name changes which do primarily impact women who marry but also impact other people such as divorce, adoption and other legal name changes.

That's what they are looking for. You're not going to get any argument out of me about the hoops people have to go through. Perhaps look over REAL ID stuff because it's not that the DMV has been giving them a license in their married name for decades. This is about the requirements for Federal information being collected. States that were once compliant had to then become compliant again after more information was requested by the Federal government. I remember my state having been compliant since day one but then I think in what 2013 (or thereabouts) more information needed to be collected and once again states had to be in compliance again.

You do not have to get REAL ID if you don't want to. If your passport is in your married name fly with that or any other document (I know how a Global Entry card that I can use if I want to), if you don't want a REAL ID period don't get one.

**As to your majority of married women that would be inaccurate portrayal one of which you would have no idea is even correct. We, I, as a married woman understand how annoying it is to have to provide stuff but in my case my document changes have been the easiest with the State, SSN and Federal government, it's been the mundane day to day stuff that has given me the most trouble like bank cards, insurance paperwork, utility bills, etc. So for me the hassle you speak of has been in that area. I couldn't even cash half the checks from the wedding at my bank because people put AND instead of OR.

You are still missing my point. The Federal government ALREADY has had you go through that paper trail when you first got married. When you showed your marriage license to get your SS card changed, that showed "proper paper trail". And then you went on to show that to get your license. So your license should be sufficient proof of your identity. What is happening now is that woman are having to go through the same procedure AGAIN for no reason other than some States can't get their crap together. Having woman, who have been married for decades, go through this process AGAIN, is stupid and unnecessary.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You are still missing my point. The Federal government ALREADY has had you go through that paper trail when you first got married. When you showed your marriage license to get your SS card changed, that showed "proper paper trail". And then you went on to show that to get your license. So your license should be sufficient proof of your identity. What is happening now is that woman are having to go through the same procedure AGAIN for no reason other than some States can't get their crap together. Having woman, who have been married for decades, go through this process AGAIN, is stupid and unnecessary.

I'm not missing the point, I'm not disagreeing with the hassle of it all. You're missing the Federal government's point, it's about the DL's that are connected through all the states with information saved in a database accessible throughout all the states and to the Federal government, this was the main reasons states put into laws against it because they didn't like that there would be a centralized data collecting aspect and the information is contained within the systems and the DL themselves. Whether we agree with REAL ID or not. What happened years and years ago just doesn't matter in this day and age. Unfortunately times change. In general the states are given the ability to do things on their own, it's why we have systems that don't always communicate with each other, this is one where the government has decided that will not be the case.

On the many threads about this topic there have been many stories where women didn't have any such things such as having to show anything, because at that time they could get xyz in their married name without the need to provide anything. For REAL ID that is unfortunately going to come back to bite people. For the most part this is hitting women who never had to provide documents before to get things changed and have been living their lives married without the need to provide anything. The state aspect really only comes into play with how up to date or not up to date a state has been on being compliant but at some point you'll have to show the chain of documents regardless of what state you're in.

Much of these document issues come about when you're providing a birth certificate as proof of your citizenship because your birth certificate has a high likelihood of having a different name.

Disagree with me all you want but I'm just a messenger here.

 

[Lilsia]

I'm not missing the point, I'm not disagreeing with the hassle of it all. You're missing the Federal government's point, it's about the DL's that are connected through all the states with information saved in a database accessible throughout all the states and to the Federal government, this was the main reasons states put into laws against it because they didn't like that there would be a centralized data collecting aspect and the information is contained within the systems and the DL themselves. Whether we agree with REAL ID or not. What happened years and years ago just doesn't matter in this day and age. Unfortunately times change. In general the states are given the ability to do things on their own, it's why we have systems that don't always communicate with each other, this is one where the government has decided that will not be the case.

On the many threads about this topic there have been many stories where women didn't have any such things such as having to show anything, because at that time they could get xyz in their married name without the need to provide anything. For REAL ID that is unfortunately going to come back to bite people. For the most part this is hitting women who never had to provide documents before to get things changed and have been living their lives married without the need to provide anything. The state aspect really only comes into play with how up to date or not up to date a state has been on being compliant but at some point you'll have to show the chain of documents regardless of what state you're in.

Much of these document issues come about when you're providing a birth certificate as proof of your citizenship because your birth certificate has a high likelihood of having a different name.

Disagree with me all you want but I'm just a messenger here.

So you are saying that some States just let anyone walk in, give any name and address with no proof, and hand over a driver's license? I have never seen that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So you are saying that some States just let anyone walk in, give any name and address with no proof, and hand over a driver's license? I have never seen that.

*sigh* I'm not sure what you're looking for right now in an argument. You can look up the REAL ID requirements for NE if you want and I'm sure you have.

We're talking about name changes/name not matching on the documents you provide them here. If you use a birth certificate as proof of your residency for example but your name does not match on other documents you provide that it will trigger the need to show the chain of name changes whether that is marriage, divorce, adoption or other legal name changes. When all your documents match this is not needed.

I'm positive we all share in the frustrations, but sorry this is all I got. Who knows when this will ever be implemented but I know no one expected the pandemic to occur. It probably would have been extended anyhow to give states that had exemptions late into the game but I'm not confident it would have been an extension of more than 4 1/2 years. Anyhoo guess we'll see in 2025 (or maybe in late 2024) if it's still the plan for this updated date.

 

[Lewisc]

Of course you would need your marriage license for your passport change originally. That is not the issue. The issue is that these woman have been using their married name legally, for 20+ years and now all of a sudden their ID is not valid anymore? Come on, that seems ridiculous. Especially since the DMV had been giving them a license in their married name for decades but not they might not be that person? It just sounds like some people don't have any common sense. Especially since the majority of married woman did not have to got through this hassle in other areas.

Only an issue if the name on your passport doesn't exactly match the name on your SS#. Exact match a birth certificate isn't needed.

As to your majority of married women that would be inaccurate portrayal one of which you would have no idea is even correct. We, I, as a married woman understand how annoying it is to have to provide stuff but in my case my document changes have been the easiest with the State, SSN and Federal government, it's been the mundane day to day stuff that has given me the most trouble like bank cards, insurance paperwork, utility bills, etc. So for me the hassle you speak of has been in that area. I couldn't even cash half the checks from the wedding at my bank because people put AND instead of OR.

Normally not an issue but....your first marriage was 40 years ago. You don't have a copy and aren't sure which locality issued it. Good chance you saved a copy of the divorce decree, even if was over 20 years ago. Not as much the marriage certificate.

You are still missing my point. The Federal government ALREADY has had you go through that paper trail when you first got married. When you showed your marriage license to get your SS card changed, that showed "proper paper trail". And then you went on to show that to get your license. So your license should be sufficient proof of your identity. What is happening now is that woman are having to go through the same procedure AGAIN for no reason other than some States can't get their crap together. Having woman, who have been married for decades, go through this process AGAIN, is stupid and unnecessary.

Neither your drivers license or social security card is sufficient to show citizenship. Passport or birth certificate is generally required. Not big deal for men but women have to show that the name on their birth certificate is the same person as is applying. Older passports sometimes only show middle initial and not full middle name. The states, not the federal government are issuing Real ID drivers license. I don't know if the state DMV has access to the SS records documenting name changes enough to go back to the name on your birth certificate.

So you are saying that some States just let anyone walk in, give any name and address with no proof, and hand over a driver's license? I have never seen that.

I would hope that accommodation is limited to accepting a middle initial vs middle name on passport vs social security card.

I'm not sure who is reading this thread. Previous posters have posted good information, but not complete. A person reading the posts don't have an understanding of the issues. My experience is with NY, maybe 5 years ago.

The vast majority of people getting a DMV Real ID will have to show an original social security card and proof citizenship. Proof of citizenship, for the vast majority, will be a passport or birth certificate. Real ID requires your full name, including middle name and any suffolk (Jr. III, IV etc.) be identical on both.

Your birth certificate and social security card should show your full name, including your middle name. Passports and prior drivers license may skip the middle name or just show your middle initial. Your passport isn't acceptable proof of citizenship if only shows your middle initial and your social security card shows your middle name. Men can generally produce a birth certificate without any other issues. Women, and men with name changes, need to document every change. Copy of marriage certificate, copy of divorce decree indicating use of maiden name, marriage certificate for second marriage etc. You basically have to show how your name has legally changed each step.

Some of this may be overkill.

Why the extensions? I don't think the TSA is prepared to handle the volume of passengers flying without valid ID. There is a procedure in place to handle pax who had their wallet lost, stolen or who simply forgot their wallet. Their are statistics which show how many people of RealID issued by states. I don't know if there is any analysis as to how many people without state RealID are planning on using passport, global entry etc as their RealID.

 

[dioxide45]

Two decades to get something implemented? Sounds about right for how government works...

 

[sam_gordon]

Why the extensions? I don't think the TSA is prepared to handle the volume of passengers flying without valid ID. There is a procedure in place to handle pax who had their wallet lost, stolen or who simply forgot their wallet. Their are statistics which show how many people of RealID issued by states. I don't know if there is any analysis as to how many people without state RealID are planning on using passport, global entry etc as their RealID.

Just my opinion, but the amount of people changing to Real IDs voluntarily won't be greatly different by extending two years.

 

[Lewisc]

Just my opinion, but the amount of people changing to Real IDs voluntarily won't be greatly different by extending two years.

Prehaps another extension. The number of people may not be dramatically different, although some may be waiting for their renewal date. I don't think the TSA is, or will be prepared, for a large number pax without RealID. Right now we have TSA pre and regular. Maybe we'll see a third line, at least some airports, for pax without real ID. Get to the airport 4 hours before your flight. People kind of know they'll be able to fly without RealID, no matter what the gov't is saying. Maybe avoiding a 2 hour line will be enough to motivate some pax.

Maybe Instead of saying you won't be allowed to fly without RealID the gov't should be talking about arriving at the airport 4 hours before your flight if you don't have RealID. Pax are seeing through the, probably baseless, claim pax without real ID won't be allowed to fly.

 

[Lilsia]

Neither your drivers license or social security card is sufficient to show citizenship. Passport or birth certificate is generally required. Not big deal for men but women have to show that the name on their birth certificate is the same person as is applying. Older passports sometimes only show middle initial and not full middle name. The states, not the federal government are issuing Real ID drivers license. I don't know if the state DMV has access to the SS records documenting name changes enough to go back to the name on your birth certificate.

It seems that getting a passport is much easier than getting a real ID in some States. When I applied for my passport, I did not need to submit my marriage license. All that I needed was my Birth Certificate and my DL. Even though my name had changed. It really sounds like some States are making this process harder than it needs to be. And when I got married, the first thing that I changed was my SS card. I then took that to the DMV to change my name on my DL.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Normally not an issue but....your first marriage was 40 years ago. You don't have a copy and aren't sure which locality issued it. Good chance you saved a copy of the divorce decree, even if was over 20 years ago. Not as much the marriage certificate.

Yeah I know it's the unfortunate thing, hence why I said impacting women living their married lives without having had proof needed to show by in large it's women married for many years who make the news. It's already been extensively covered in other threads which is why I haven't here, it's already in many other threads all the details, unfortunately some people have issues with birth certificates even in case of fire or flood, places that don't have electronic backups, etc.

I still had to show the chain of my name changing, the difference for me is some of it was taken care of during the process of other things. When I got my first passport in my maiden name I had a certified copy of my birth certificate. When I went in to change my name on my DL (non-REAL ID back then as it wasn't around in 2013) and to change my SSN I used a certified copy of my marriage license. I actually didn't change my name on my passport until 5 years into my marriage because we were dumb dumbs who didn't take advantage of doing it for free in the first year but regardless I would have had to do the same--send in a certified copy of my marriage license along with my existing passport. So with me using my passport with my married name, my SSN with my married name, my DL with my married name, etc all documents matched.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

When I applied for my passport, I did not need to submit my marriage license.

Ahhh but I did when my name changed to my married name. I had to mail in a certified copy of my marriage license along with my passport that had my maiden name. I got that in 2018 (original passport issued in 2013).

 

[disney-inspired]

Don't waste your time on a real ID, just get a passport. At least you can travel internationally with it.
I only got it because it was free.

 

[sam_gordon]

Don't waste your time on a real ID, just get a passport. At least you can travel internationally with it.
I only got it because it was free.

How big are people's wallets that passports are so easy to carry? The advantage (to me) of the real ID is it not only works as a DL, but it fits in my wallet.

To say nothing about the ability to travel internationally isn't that important to many. Flying to see family a couple states away, much more so.