Real Christians Don't Gay Bash

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Hi all. I hope it is okay for me to post here. I am a member of a very conservative chuch here in the South, and I am constantly looking for ways to "enlighten" my brothers and sisters about people who are "different" from them and how to follow Christ's directive to "love thy neighbor" - this is just the sort of post I need to help me - thank you, Uncle Remus!

Hi Al and Kate's Mom !
These are very nice people here and given the tone of your post, I'm thinking you will be quite welcome.

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

LOL!!!!!!

 

[Uncle Remus]

Hey wallyb, ya took the words right outta my mouth.

 

[baby_becky716]

Nicely put! I hope one day we can move from being a tolerant society to an accepting society that loves and cherishes all people

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Thank you, Vikki.

 

[zagafi]

I struggle with calling myself a Christian, but tend to refer to myself as an Episcopalian because I find myself at odds with the "Christian Right" who tend to be so vocal, and oftentimes, so very hateful. It pains me that people hide behind the cloak of "Christianity" and use their religion (which I believe differs from faith--YMMV) as a weapon. I'd wager that many who use the Bible as their justification have little knowledge how said Bible was assembled and who did the assembly, and with what motivations they did their work. Personally, I don't understand how anyone can take it as *literal*.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Viki's post above was eloquent, and made me think about this so I thought I'd toss in my two cents. God's basic message was "love me, love one another". How it's become "love one another except for x, y, and z" is beyond me.

 

[polarboi]

Anybody see this article in the New York Times today?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/12/us/12evangelical.html

It's not just the progressive Christians... there are gay evangelicals, too.

-p.b.

 

[Haveamagicalday!]

Friend, you are welcome to post here anytime!

However, don't expect me to agree with you. I am an ordained minister and have been partnered with another woman for 20+ years (and counting) and I can assure you that the God testified to in both Hebrew and Christian scripture is a God who asks us see beyond law, love beyond morality, and act beyond ethics.

Anyone, of faith or not, could be moral, ethical, and hungry for justice. It's only those who have spied the real glory of God - that we are all in this together and are destined to be reconciled all to each other, in this world or the next - that can step out in faith and go beyond law, beyond morality, beyond ethics, embrassing those who are outcast, loving those who most have judged unloveable, and spying the likeness of God in the most unexpected places.

I was raised independent Baptist in the South - we thought you Southern Baptists were way too LIBERAL - but, by the grace of God, much like Martin Luther and St. Paul before him, I finally saw the light, which isn't such a bad thing to see in this season of Advent.

So, welcome!

Sorry if I offended anyone! I read back my post later and realized it sounded pretty harsh and narrow minded. I really did not mean to give that impression. To be quite honest, we had just had a debate in my AP government class on gay marriage and many things that were unneccessary were said by both sides, so my juices were kind of flowing. Thank you for stating your opinion, especially in the civil manner you portrayed. This is most definetely not seen in my school! haha. I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas!

 

[Uncle Remus]

Sorry if I offended anyone! I read back my post later and realized it sounded pretty harsh and narrow minded. I really did not mean to give that impression. To be quite honest, we had just had a debate in my AP government class on gay marriage and many things that were unneccessary were said by both sides, so my juices were kind of flowing. Thank you for stating your opinion, especially in the civil manner you portrayed. This is most definetely not seen in my school! haha. I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas!

Hey magicalday, Viki's got that same calmin' effect on me too!

 

[Viki]

Hey magicalday, Viki's got that same calmin' effect on me too!

That would be the midtown manhattan talking!

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Sorry if I offended anyone! I read back my post later and realized it sounded pretty harsh and narrow minded. I really did not mean to give that impression. To be quite honest, we had just had a debate in my AP government class on gay marriage and many things that were unneccessary were said by both sides, so my juices were kind of flowing. Thank you for stating your opinion, especially in the civil manner you portrayed. This is most definetely not seen in my school! haha. I hope you all have a very Merry Christmas!

Good for you, Haveamagicalday! It is SO hard for most of us to take a good hard look at what we think, say, or do in the heat of the moment, and then have the gumption to make a heartfelt apology. Viki is a lovely person and a mom to two teens -- I believe she knows we are all "works-in-progress".

Ya done good, Son! ... and Merry Christmas back atcha!

 

[Viki]

Oh, yes, please no worries! I apologize I'm late with letting you know that.

I never took offense at anything you said - like you, I'm used to much rougher waters than your offering

Plus, I love a good conversation and I think many here do, so, please hang out here just as you are anytime you like!

Well I agree with you for the most part. I also think that there is a big difference between "bashing" gays and disagreeing with thier lifestyle. I do believe in the idea of disliking the sin, not the sinner. But just because I may not support the idea doesnt mean I discriminate or "bash gays". No one deserves to be bashed. I am tolerant, but not encouraging. Personally, I dont think its up to us to judge a person, but leave it to God and He will show what is right. As a Christian, all of the Bible is our guide, not just the New Testement and what Jesus did. The Old Testement is clearly there for a reason, every line of it. That book guides me through every move and decision I make in life, so I feel I owe it to God to "love thy neighbor". However, I think that my religion should effect my political standpoint, as it effects everything else in my life. These are just my opinions as a Southern Baptist from the Bible Belt and a loyal O'Reilly Factor viewer.

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

"viki", sue whispers in her tiniest, most inconspicuous, self-effacing voice possible, " viki, it was actually the OTHER conservative Christian (you know the lady's whose screen name is a lil bit similar to mine?) who actually (and very politely too -- I might add) asked if it would be OK to post here. In the middle our our mini-kerfluffle, i told her i thought it would be fine but she might wanna hear it from you, our fearless leader."

 

[Viki]

"viki", sue whispers in her tiniest, most inconspicuous, self-effacing voice possible, " viki, it was actually the OTHER conservative Christian (you know the lady's whose screen name is a lil bit similar to mine?) who actually (and very politely too -- I might add) asked if it would be OK to post here. In the middle our our mini-kerfluffle, i told her i thought it would be fine but she might wanna hear it from you, our fearless leader."

OK, I'm lost, so how about I offer a blanket acceptance of everyone who might like to apologize to me for any reason whatsoever ...

and, really, more to the point LET ME OFFER ONE!!!

 

[hematite153]

Hi all. I hope it is okay for me to post here. I am a member of a very conservative chuch here in the South, and I am constantly looking for ways to "enlighten" my brothers and sisters about people who are "different" from them and how to follow Christ's directive to "love thy neighbor" - this is just the sort of post I need to help me - thank you, Uncle Remus!

Al and Kate's Mom, I think that it is your post that Sue is referring to. However, you were so immediately welcomed to this forum that we all forgot to say so. Welcome! Please read and post at will....

I am glad that you found this thread so useful and I am always happy to meet people who are asking questions and engaging with faith. It is especially nice to hear from those within the more conservative churches because the press focuses so much on those who are not interested in "enlightenment" (to use your term).

Christianity has so much more depth, at least for me, than is usually portrayed. The struggle to grow, find clarity in faith and apply ideas to an ever changing world is, in many ways, what I see as the path to God. (A serious over-simplification I know.)

Anyway, just my long-winded way of saying that you are welcome to post here and that your previous posting was appreciated.

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Al and Kate's Mom, I think that it is your post that Sue is referring to. However, you were so immediately welcomed to this forum that we all forgot to say so. Welcome! Please read and post at will....

I am glad that you found this thread so useful and I am always happy to meet people who are asking questions and engaging with faith. It is especially nice to hear from those within the more conservative churches because the press focuses so much on those who are not interested in "enlightenment" (to use your term).

Christianity has so much more depth, at least for me, than is usually portrayed. The struggle to grow, find clarity in faith and apply ideas to an ever changing world is, in many ways, what I see as the path to God. (A serious over-simplification I know.)

Anyway, just my long-winded way of saying that you are welcome to post here and that your previous posting was appreciated.

Perfectamundo!

 

[HeDiedxILive]

Hello everyone! I've never posted here before, but I feel as if you all are very welcoming and I don't fear flaming for what I'm about to say. I'd like to thank you in advance for that! You seem like very genuine, kind people and I hold an utmost respect for that. I'd also like to apologize in advance for saying anything that may offend someone. I have not had many years in this world yet as a soon-to-be high school graduate, and there are many things I do not know or understand. If I say anything infactual, please let me know! I want to learn, I want to discuss, and that is why I am posting here.

I do not like to refer to myself as a "Christian," but rather as an "imitator" or "follower" of Christ. I believe that the term "Christian" is too connected with religion. I have a faith, not a religion (but that is a whole other thread ). I will not state whether homosexuality is a sin or not, because my opinion about that does not matter. It is up to God to make that decision and it is not my place to judge. It is also something that I believe God will show me as I grow in Him... He just hasn't gotten to the subject with me yet.

As far as the story in the Bible about the prostitute, I believe that the main point (which seemed to be left out when it was brought up in this thread) is what Jesus said to those who were about to stone the woman. He said (in essence), "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." This sentence is key.

Now, just for example, say homosexuality is a sin. I believe that sin is sin, and that none is any greater than another. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Well, I will be the first to admit that I am a liar, a gossip, a slanderer, and disobedient. So are you. So is the person you got off the phone with a few minutes ago. So is the person that you're meeting tonight for dinner. "For ALL have sinned." IF homosexuality is a sin, I would be tickled pink to hear an argument as to why we "Christians" (which means "Christ-like") have any reason to judge another persons sin of any kind, or in this case "gay bash." In these scriptures, I also believe that Christians can be homosexual... IF it is a sin, does that mean I am not a follower of Christ because I disobeyed my parents last night and walked in 15 minutes after curfew? NO. It means I sinned. And through Christ comes forgiveness. A life in Christ is a continuing battle and a continuous growth. We sin, we learn, and we're forgiven. And I'm going off on a tangent!

To sum everything up..

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" should really be just "love the sinner," no matter what the sin is. Otherwise, how do can we even accept ourselves, let alone our brothers and sisters in Christ?


Sorry if my post doesn't relate enough to the thread... sometimes I just talk and talk!

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

My Goodness -- What an interesting turn of thought. Maybe we need a "Philosophy and Faith At Disney" Forum. It seems like you are citing two very different examples of what "Sin" (whatever that might be -- but for the sake of argument, let's just call it WRONG) could or could not be.

I am not a Christian nor a particularly deep thinker. I am a mom who loves her children though so please let me share a couple thoughts...

Neither Homosexuality nor Heterosexuality is a sin -- That would be like saying brunettes are god's chosen people; blondes need not apply. Truly loving, needing, and caring for another person (regardless of the details) can never be WRONG. Actively committing one's heart and life to another is one of the RIGHTEST things there can be in the world.

Coming in 15 minutes late after curfew -- Well, that can be be pretty darn WRONG -- Those 15 minutes can be the longest 15 minutes in a parent's life -- worrying about what may have happened -- traffic accidents, fights, what have you. At its core and IMHO, it's not so much an issue of disobedience but more an issue of not thinking about how your parents are feeling...not loving them actively -- in many ways the opposite of the first example.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth so if you're gonna be late, call fer pitysakes. Us parents all belong to the same Union.
---
edited to include some additional thoughts (Bold)

 

[Uncle Remus]

Hello everyone! I've never posted here before, but I feel as if you all are very welcoming and I don't fear flaming for what I'm about to say. I'd like to thank you in advance for that! You seem like very genuine, kind people and I hold an utmost respect for that. I'd also like to apologize in advance for saying anything that may offend someone. I have not had many years in this world yet as a soon-to-be high school graduate, and there are many things I do not know or understand. If I say anything infactual, please let me know! I want to learn, I want to discuss, and that is why I am posting here.

I do not like to refer to myself as a "Christian," but rather as an "imitator" or "follower" of Christ. I believe that the term "Christian" is too connected with religion. I have a faith, not a religion (but that is a whole other thread ). I will not state whether homosexuality is a sin or not, because my opinion about that does not matter. It is up to God to make that decision and it is not my place to judge. It is also something that I believe God will show me as I grow in Him... He just hasn't gotten to the subject with me yet.

As far as the story in the Bible about the prostitute, I believe that the main point (which seemed to be left out when it was brought up in this thread) is what Jesus said to those who were about to stone the woman. He said (in essence), "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." This sentence is key.

Now, just for example, say homosexuality is a sin. I believe that sin is sin, and that none is any greater than another. "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Well, I will be the first to admit that I am a liar, a gossip, a slanderer, and disobedient. So are you. So is the person you got off the phone with a few minutes ago. So is the person that you're meeting tonight for dinner. "For ALL have sinned." IF homosexuality is a sin, I would be tickled pink to hear an argument as to why we "Christians" (which means "Christ-like") have any reason to judge another persons sin of any kind, or in this case "gay bash." In these scriptures, I also believe that Christians can be homosexual... IF it is a sin, does that mean I am not a follower of Christ because I disobeyed my parents last night and walked in 15 minutes after curfew? NO. It means I sinned. And through Christ comes forgiveness. A life in Christ is a continuing battle and a continuous growth. We sin, we learn, and we're forgiven. And I'm going off on a tangent!

To sum everything up..

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" should really be just "love the sinner," no matter what the sin is. Otherwise, how do can we even accept ourselves, let alone our brothers and sisters in Christ?


Sorry if my post doesn't relate enough to the thread... sometimes I just talk and talk!

You sound pretty dang smart to me
I'm much older than you 'n I'm still learnin'.
You oughta drop in here every so often like I do
coz I learn quite a bit here myself

 

[OrlandoMike]

I'd also like to apologize in advance for saying anything that may offend someone. I have not had many years in this world yet as a soon-to-be high school graduate

You seem wise beyond your years to me! Come back and visit us again soon!