Re-sale gone wrong - Sellers lied - What do I do?

[Normangirls]

I am livid right now, with the sellers, Fidelity, and Disney.

We had an offer accepted, re-sale through Fidelity, and submitted to Disney for ROFR on 3/14. All 2010 points were to be banked.

I just got an e-mail from Fidelity telling us that not all 150 points were available to be banked, only 42 points were left from 2010.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

In the e-mail, Rachel at Fidelity said that they just found this out from Disney and the sellers, and that the available points had changed between the original listing and ROFR. So the sellers just forgot to mention this when they signed our agreement? The agreement clearly said that all 150 points were to be banked. There is NO WAY the sellers weren't fully aware that they were lying when they accepted our offer.

So, what happens now? Fiedlity sent an amendment for us to sign if we want to go through with the purchase. Does that make ROFR start over? And is it considered a new submission (now, after the 3/20 change)? What if we renegotiate the asking price (which I think is clearly warranted in this case)? Do we start ROFR again?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[DVCconvert]

What if we renegotiate the asking price (which I think is clearly warranted in this case)? Do we start ROFR again?

I guess I'd ask myself how important the 'restricted' thing is to you.
If it were a big deal, maybe I'd see if you could alter the terms in as far as who was paying for closing costs and MF's. I'm not sure if that would require a resubmission or not.

If you don't care about the restrictions I'd make a new offer and restart.

 

[Sandisw]

I had the same thing happen when I sold a contract. I forgot to list that 9 points were banked , not current, because I was a new DVC member and didn't really think about it.

Anyway, we did have to do an addendum (didn't matter to my buyers) and I believe they had to send it back for ROFR. I think that I would find out, in writing, that your resale will still count for the benefits. If not, then I would either back out or ask for an adjustment in price.

Good luck!

 

[Normangirls]

I guess I'd ask myself how important the 'restricted' thing is to you.
If it were a big deal, maybe I'd see if you could alter the terms in as far as who was paying for closing costs and MF's. I'm not sure if that would require a resubmission or not.

If you don't care about the restrictions I'd make a new offer and restart.

Yeah, we'll have to re-evaluate. The new rules didn't worry me too much, since we didn't really plan to use the points in those ways, but it was nice to get in before 3/20 so we didn't have to worry about it. Now we have to decide if it's a deal breaker.

We had a pretty sweet deal going -- sellers pays closing and mf. Not so sweet now, right?

I had the same thing happen when I sold a contract. I forgot to list that 9 points were banked , not current, because I was a new DVC member and didn't really think about it.

Anyway, we did have to do an addendum (didn't matter to my buyers) and I believe they had to send it back for ROFR. I think that I would find out, in writing, that your resale will still count for the benefits. If not, then I would either back out or ask for an adjustment in price.

Good luck!

See, in your case I can understand: it was only 9 points at issue, and the difference was just banked versus current. But someone who "forgets" they used over 100 points in the last few months? I don't think so.

 

[DisDad07]

Sorry to hear this went bad for you, but please keep us informed so if anybody else were to experience this they might know what to do. I know I am waiting to make sure the points banked are in the contract correct. thanks for the heads up.

 

[Dean]

This is an easy thing to happen for those using their contracts but looking to sell. I've been there myself in having the points accounting different than when we listed though I knew as did the broker, that this was the case and that it would change over time. Your best option is to put a value on the lost points and get the seller to ante up that amount in some way, possibly by prepaying dues. Depending on the UY and method of determining the dues you agreed to, the value of the contract has dropped between $5 to 10 per point lost. Maybe less if the points are there but not bankable and you can get use out of them. I hope it works out. One thing that's likely NOT to happen is for Disney to waive the change for your situation. You're going to have to move forward with this OR lose out on the terminated options for resale contracts.

 

[DVCconvert]

Dean -

Do you think Normangirls can modify points of agreement with the seller and it not have to be resubmitted? I would like to hope so...but I got an email today from a broker on a contract I bot which passed today, and noticed the bolded text below:

Disney Vacation Development, Inc. (“DVD”), in accordance with the terms of the Declaration of Condominium (Declaration) governing the rights and obligations of those with ownership interests in various condominiums, including the above resort, waives it's right of first refusal and elects not to purchase the above referenced ownership interest(s) based upon the terms and conditions set forth in the written agreement between the parties above. The original signed Waiver of Right of First Refusal will be sent by U.S. mail to the closing agent for the seller.

 

[Dean]

Dean -

Do you think Normangirls can modify points of agreement with the seller and it not have to be resubmitted? I would like to hope so...but I got an email today from a broker on a contract I bot which passed today, and noticed the bolded text below:

Normally I'd say no but I'm guessing DVC is going to be very lax in this situation. I'd just ask the broker what can be done. The broker should either have a ready answer that makes it work or talk to Disney to see what they can work out. However, DVD can't put itself in the situation of letting a ROFR go through with a date later than the cutoff or they would open themselves up to all type of legal risks. The best option is likely to get into the gray area and close with an agreement that's outside the contract in some way. However, it's entirely possible that the OP will have no options other than to move on and lose the contract options or to pay the higher price associated with less points. IMO they could have done the buyer a favor forcing them into a lower cost contract with only slightly less options.

 

[Buckeye Fan]

I'm so sorry, Normangirls. I hope everything works out to your satisfaction. At $10 - $13 per point to rent, that's $1,000 - $1,300. Wonder if the resale broker could talk them into buying some Disney tickets for you. Two 10-day hopper, waterparks, non-expiring will run you about $1,150 or so, maybe they could throw those in and everyone would be happy? But then again, that may be illegal?

Fidelity and the seller should make this right, IMHO. I'd force Fidelity's hand, as they should be working with you both and coming up with options unless there are legal reasons they cannot, and then they should tell you that, too.

 

[Dean]

I'm so sorry, Normangirls. I hope everything works out to your satisfaction. At $10 - $13 per point to rent, that's $1,000 - $1,300. Wonder if the resale broker could talk them into buying some Disney tickets for you. Two 10-day hopper, waterparks, non-expiring will run you about $1,150 or so, maybe they could throw those in and everyone would be happy? But then again, that may be illegal?

Fidelity and the seller should make this right, IMHO. I'd force Fidelity's hand, as they should be working with you both and coming up with options unless there are legal reasons they cannot, and then they should tell you that, too.

I don't think one can blame the company in this situation. It is appropriate to get them to put pressure on the seller though.

 

[Buckeye Fan]

I don't think one can blame the company in this situation. It is appropriate to get them to put pressure on the seller though.

Agree. Too many times the companies get blamed for the bad behavior of sellers/buyers. However, don't they pull points summaries prior to submitting? I know people can mess with their points after the summary is pulled, but it makes me wonder if that was even done. I've purchased multiple contracts from Rachel, so I know they are a reputable company. However, they should be providing poor Normangirls with some options.

 

[Normangirls]

I like Buckeye Fan's idea, but what I really need are tickets to Universal to go see Harry Potter!

Thanks, everyone, for calming me down. I know it's not Fidelity or Disney's fault, but I can still be mad at everyone, right? (Stomping feet) I want my DVC, and I want it now!

I'm going to call Rachel first thing in the a.m. and try to sort this out. You guys helped me figure out our options (thanks again!) and now we can figure out what's best for us.

I'll update this when I get answers to some of the questions we've gone over.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm a little surprised that something like this could happen. I've listed points twice with TTS, and in both cases they got a points statement from DVC before they even published the listing. That points statement took a couple of days, and neither of my properties were listed until they had the accurate info on my points.

That just seems to be common-sense due diligence on the broker's part to me, and I can't understand how there could be a "misunderstanding" if the broker is doing their job. Anything else is just sloppy business practice, IMHO, and I can't think of any legitimate excuse for not knowing what you're selling.

As far as a remedy, I certainly think the purchase price should be adjusted downward. My suggestion is $10 per point (the normal rental price for DVC points) for the points that are missing. That would be 108 X $10 = $1,080 off the original agreed-to purchase price.

And if there is any attempt to take any part of your deposit if the deal falls through, I'd go right to the Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation and file a complaint against the broker.

 

[dbs1228]

About 10 days after a contract we were selling went to ROFR (recently) I asked our listing agent if the buyers knew the rules about banking points since we had 98, 2010 points and a March 31 deadline. The agent contacted the sellers who wanted the points banked and we both signed addemdums. 11 days later it passed ROFR so I know it was not resubmitted. I know this is a bit different but I think you will be able to sign an addendum if you decide you still want it. Call Fidelty ask your options like many have said and good luck.

 

[JimMIA]

I know many folks have had good experiences with Fidelity, but I hope this is not the first of many horror stories about this broker.

I was just flat amazed that they closed down on the weekend of 3/20 (for which they had TWO MONTHS notice from Disney) and left their customers high and dry. I'm afraid we're going to have one shoe after another dropping over the next few weeks as their deals unravel.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[lilpooh108]

I don't think one can blame the company in this situation. It is appropriate to get them to put pressure on the seller though.

Sorry, Dean. I disagree with you on this one. In February, we put in an offer (which the seller accepted) with Fidelity on an attractively priced contract.

We found out later that the listing was incorrect and listed the incorrect amount of banked points. Nothing was even pointed out to us or mentioned to us when the contract was emailed to us.

Upon receiving the contract, I double-checked the point allocation, etc., set forth in the contract and the amount of banked points was decreased by more than half. I called the broker and she had no idea that anything was wrong as compared to the listing. While we were on the phone, she pulled out the seller's statement and we did the math together to figure out which points were missing.

It is entirely possible that Fidelity simply didn't check the statement when they did the listing--but whoever drafted the contract did check the statement.

Meaning--I could be in the OP's position right now had the assistant drafting the contract failed to correctly list the banked point amount (or simply went off the listing itself). I exchanged PMs with another DIS'er who was in the same situation with a Fidelity listing.

To the OP--I thought the ladies at Fidelity were sweet (and sincerely nice people), but w/the influx of the rush to meet the deadline it seemed like they were too busy or too swamped to double check everything. I would not rely on their information regarding whether the contract (if resubmitted) would qualify for the pre 3/20 rules. I would get a written confirmation from Disney in this regard. Hope it works out for you.

 

[tammymacb]

I recently walked away from a Fidelity contract with an idiot seller. After the deal was made and the paperwork was signed ( including a MARCH closing date) I got a call from Jaki ( we'd cobrokered ) to tell me that Disney had contacted her 18 days into ROFR.

The seller had booked a cruise with the 2010 points, which I knew weren't included in the contract. BUT, now the closing couldn't happen until JULY as the seller wasn't going to give up the trip and Disney couldn't close a contract with a pending vacation. The seller had failed to tell anyone about the booked cruise.

At first, I thought I was being reasonable, and since I was going to be inconvenienced by MONTHS I simply asked that the seller pay closing costs. The seller refused. I walked.

Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking..

 

[MFMont]

I recently walked away from a Fidelity contract with an idiot seller. After the deal was made and the paperwork was signed ( including a MARCH closing date) I got a call from Jaki ( we'd cobrokered ) to tell me that Disney had contacted her 18 days into ROFR.

The seller had booked a cruise with the 2010 points, which I knew weren't included in the contract. BUT, now the closing couldn't happen until JULY as the seller wasn't going to give up the trip and Disney couldn't close a contract with a pending vacation. The seller had failed to tell anyone about the booked cruise.

At first, I thought I was being reasonable, and since I was going to be inconvenienced by MONTHS I simply asked that the seller pay closing costs. The seller refused. I walked.

Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking..

Haha, me to.

 

[Buckeye Fan]

Thinking of you. Let us know what you find out!

 

[Dawn16]

I recently walked away from a Fidelity contract with an idiot seller. After the deal was made and the paperwork was signed ( including a MARCH closing date) I got a call from Jaki ( we'd cobrokered ) to tell me that Disney had contacted her 18 days into ROFR.

The seller had booked a cruise with the 2010 points, which I knew weren't included in the contract. BUT, now the closing couldn't happen until JULY as the seller wasn't going to give up the trip and Disney couldn't close a contract with a pending vacation. The seller had failed to tell anyone about the booked cruise.

At first, I thought I was being reasonable, and since I was going to be inconvenienced by MONTHS I simply asked that the seller pay closing costs. The seller refused. I walked.

Sometimes I wonder what people are thinking..

We have friends who just went through this with Fidelity as well. They made an offer, had it accepted and then found out the seller had a reservation in November for some friends. So, to avoid waiting to close until then they had to wait until the seller could go rent some points for his friends and then cancel the reservation made with his points. Luckiy it only took a few extra days so they got the contract with the points they had expected. At least this was all earlier in March and they weren't scrambling closer to the 3/20 deadline. Sounds like they were maybe a bit overwhelmed at Fidelity down the stretch.