Rant: The DDP is ruining everything!

[S.Poppins]

I look forward to your reviews.
The comment about the DDP giving you one less thing to worry about doesn't make sense though. With the planning of your point usage and having to make ADR's so far in advance wouldn't it be easier by far to just use the resort perk of charging your meals to your room?
I've also seen way too many people believing they're getting the full restaurant experience by using the DDP when it's been said over and over that the DDP has lowered everything from the quality of the food to the service recieved.
I don't understand the joy in having a more complicated dining experience along with an overall poorer quality meal.

Charging your meals to your room is as simple as it gets folks. No preplanning necessary, no ADR's months in advance and no having to carry wads of money around with you.

I agree with what the other poster said. For those of us who only get to go once a year or every other year and who must plan carefully to afford it, it is a perk to book the vacation 8 months out with dining included and spend all that time paying for it. Then when we go it is already paid for, I do not have to plan to take extra money for food. Sure, I guess we could put extra money away every month for food at WDW, but it is easier to do it this way. Plus it saves money. I do not mind making ADRs in advance. I find out what park is open when and make a plan based on that. I have researched and know which restaurants I want to eat at. I guess it is different for everyone. And if date night for you includes a trip to Olive Garden and the movies, then the food at WDW seems great! I have eaten at many fine dining establishments and have enjoyed it. But I still like Chili's too. And when your very few childhood memories of WDW are the hamburger you had to split with your sister and pb crackers, all the TS at WDW seem like a treat. Sorry, I guess I am not very picky.

 

[rluey29]

I personally love the dining plan and it saved my family over 150$. Had great meals and WILL do it every time we go because of the value and convenience of not needing cash all the time.

 

[lillygator]

I personally love the dining plan and it saved my family over 150$. Had great meals and WILL do it every time we go because of the value and convenience of not needing cash all the time.

ummmm, if you are staying onsite you don't NEED anything but the room card.....sweeeet!

 

[Nancyg56]

And when your very few childhood memories of WDW are the hamburger you had to split with your sister and pb crackers, all the TS at WDW seem like a treat. Sorry, I guess I am not very picky.

I remember my first trips to Disney were 20 years ago, the first alone with my DH and the second with the kids. CS in the MK was the same where ever you ate.....a hot dog or hamburger, fries and soda in a basket. I really do not remember any TS in the MK. The WSC was not completed, so no fine dining options there. The good TS restaurants were in the resorts hotels, all two of them.

I understand the debate in regards to the DDP "ruining" the dining experiences for guests, but I just do not see that the DDP is the villian. I believe that Disney tries to capture as many guests as possible, and this is one tool. I wonder if the changes that some people have noticed have to do with the general environment. I don't care how fine a menu is, and how lovely the atmosphere is, if you don't fill the room, you don't pay the bills. If a signature restaurant was self sustaining without the plan, I doubt it that it would be included. I have no "inside" information to support either side of the DDP argument, I am speculating along with many on this thread.

We are not "picky" either because the options available for my family have increased since our first visits, not decreased. We choose how much additional money we want to allocate towards dining, and make ADR's accordingly. I miss the experience we were able to enjoy when the CG was Broadway at the Top of the World, and I loved the Empress Lily, but I have found that people and places change.

 

[gina2000]

I think there's alot of truth in many of these posts. I'm sure Disney is trying to maximize their profitability. Keeping people on site and eating TS generates more profits than CS. Homogenizing menus cuts wholesale costs and allows them to offer a DDP that is reasonably priced and easy to use. Having patrons pay rack rates looks great on paper when determining hotel profitability. And let's face it, hotels are saleable properties should they ever decide to go that route. It's a win-win for Disney.

Now here's the rub for many of us. As most posters have indicated, Disney worked long and hard to capture people's restaurant fancy and fantasies. They created a group of restaurants that brought different cuisines to central Florida (EPCOT). They also hired some heavy hitter chefs to staff their hotel signature restaurants. Why? Well, I have to assume they were looking for a certain clientele to fill those restaurants. I don't know how profitable that segment of the market place was, they were definitely marketing towards families to stay onsite and never leave WDW premises (the mouse that swallowed Central Florida concept) and people looking for upscale, good food. Somewhere along the line, they looked to streamline operations while still maximizing table service restaurant patronage. They changed menus. They cut out some fancy preparations in favor of easier to deliver dishes. All is well and good if you are part of the DDP. You're paying a fair price for decent food.

Who got left behind? OOP restaurant patrons who no longer receive the quality they desire at the established price. Remember, the price hasn't changed, just the quality. And for those who feel that the quality hasn't changed, well, that's your thought. Many of us feel that it has. It's subjective. There are enough people on this thread who have had definite experiences that have been less than magical. We saw the streamlining at Spoodles in February. We thought the place was closing down. The food was insipid, the menu extremely limited (and I don't need 25 items on a menu to be happy....but I do need 10 choices), and the waitstaff lackluster. It was a horribly disappointing experience.

Does this all matter? Probably not to WDW. They've got their restaurants filled and happy patrons. They may see a decline in usage once people decide that the quality and/or quantity does not meet the price they are paying. Then they'll just change their strategy.

Right now their hotels are filled and their restaurants are filled (perhaps at a loss, perhaps not). What could be better?

So it's up to people to vote with their pocketbooks.

 

[annegal]

I understand the debate in regards to the DDP "ruining" the dining experiences for guests, but I just do not see that the DDP is the villian. .

I agree. They have constanty "cut back" at various restayrants over the years...the Crystal Palace used to be very different 10 years ago.


For Instance, Every trip over the last 20 years we eat at Liberty Tree for lunch. Last trip, they no longer gave you the breads with honey butter. That was one of the things I looked forward to with our lunch.

 

[DISDVCER]

Eventually I can see all the dinning places associated with the DDP being nothing more than counter service quality with reserved seating.

This whole DDP thing really saddens me as the quality of the individual restraunts was one of the major WDW things to do. Most of the signature restraunts require better attire than one would wear to a park. I like being able to leave a park and jump on a bus/monorail for dinner without having to go back to the resort, change then either catch a bus to DTD or a park the another to the resort.

Quality is what it's all about and when the menu's start looking the same it's all about the $.

 

[jenfur]

Actually if you read through this thread (and others) you'll see that there was a time when Yes, some of the WDW restaurants were good enough that people considered them a dining "destination".

I agree some were good enoughand I know a few I am really looking forward to, BUT I think very few people go to WDW just for the food. Maybe if they are locals, but there are many places that come to mind when I think of "dining destination."



"others" ???

Solo travelers, couples, any adults without children. Disney wants those guests and offers a lot of things for them to do, but all of the BIG marketing dollars are still to families with children.

 

[jenfur]

I'm an oldie (43) and remember drooling over a cover article in Time (or Newsweek) in 1981-82 with amazing pullout pictures and a substantial article on what the vision of EPCOT was. It was very much emphasized that the countries were to be immersed in their cultures,---cuisine and otherwise.

Now I can get waffles in Norway.....something you would not get in Norway. How about gravlax, Wasa brot and Emmenthaler cheese? I'm not suggesting that Disney become cultural purists (Ducks feet in China would probably not be a big seller), but at the moment the original concept is far off course.

So I have to politely disagree with jenfur.

Well, I agree with you somewhat. I am sure fine dining was/is part of the plan as it should be. I just don't believe that the DDP is the reason for the decline. A search of complaints would show that quality has been declining for a while now and people are just blaming the DDP because it is present for a few more negative changes. The big problem I have is the crowd who decides that only families trying to save money are using the DDP and this is turning Le Cellier into a McDonald's. EVERYONE at WDW is entitled to quality meals whether it is CS or TS.

 

[Nancyg56]

Eventually I can see all the dinning places associated with the DDP being nothing more than counter service quality with reserved seating.

This whole DDP thing really saddens me as the quality of the individual restraunts was one of the major WDW things to do. Most of the signature restraunts require better attire than one would wear to a park. I like being able to leave a park and jump on a bus/monorail for dinner without having to go back to the resort, change then either catch a bus to DTD or a park the another to the resort.

Quality is what it's all about and when the menu's start looking the same it's all about the $.

But you are assuming that the DDP is the reason for the changes. I am not sure about that. There is a point that is the difference between make or break for any business, and I wonder if the changes are in response to rising prices in the food industry. I can appreciate the quality items and ingredients and often pay more for them. In order for any business to survive, enough people must have the mindset to support that business. I have a friend who opened a bakery with the most delicious pasteries. The ingredients were the best resulting in products superior to those found in the supermarket bakeries. Her prices were higher because her quality was higher, but unfortunately her volume was not high enough to cover her overhead. SHe closed her shop.

I wonder if the changes are made in order to keep prices in a range that will allow the restaurants to maintain an occupancy rate that will keep the doors open. The DDP may just be an incidental that is easy to blame, but not the underlying cause.

 

[ReallyFunMom]

.



Who got left behind? OOP restaurant patrons who no longer receive the quality they desire at the established price. Remember, the price hasn't changed, just the quality. And for those who feel that the quality hasn't changed, well, that's your thought. Many of us feel that it has. It's subjective. There are enough people on this thread who have had definite experiences that have been less than magical. We saw the streamlining at Spoodles in February. We thought the place was closing down. The food was insipid, the menu extremely limited (and I don't need 25 items on a menu to be happy....but I do need 10 choices), and the waitstaff lackluster. It was a horribly disappointing experience.

.

I agree that the OOP guest is burned the worst. The "incredible" value of the DDP after adding up the receipts couldn't possibly last. Even with the quality changes, it can easily remain a "very good deal" for DDP guest. If someone considering DDP doesn't think so anymore, they can join the OOP world and have the same prices (higher for kids meals) and lower quality, their choice. (The reverse doesn't work for guests that go multiple times a year due to the MYW ticket requirement. You might upgrade to an AP for one MYW/DDP trip but the rest of the trips will need to be OOP.) Those that like the DDP before will probably still do the math and decide its a good deal even if they have to swap their TS to a breakfast buffet and eat a CS dinner to get the kid a cheeseburger and fries for dinner. They still have a choice to buy it or not. The OOP guest has no choice but to accept higher prices for lower quality food and drinks or give up on Disney dining. They haven't tinkered with breakfast much so I'm hoping that meal can still be an onsite with quality commiserate with cost.

 

[First timer]

I agree with what the other poster said. For those of us who only get to go once a year or every other year and who must plan carefully to afford it, it is a perk to book the vacation 8 months out with dining included and spend all that time paying for it. Then when we go it is already paid for, I do not have to plan to take extra money for food. Sure, I guess we could put extra money away every month for food at WDW, but it is easier to do it this way. Plus it saves money. I do not mind making ADRs in advance. I find out what park is open when and make a plan based on that. I have researched and know which restaurants I want to eat at. I guess it is different for everyone. And if date night for you includes a trip to Olive Garden and the movies, then the food at WDW seems great! I have eaten at many fine dining establishments and have enjoyed it. But I still like Chili's too. And when your very few childhood memories of WDW are the hamburger you had to split with your sister and pb crackers, all the TS at WDW seem like a treat. Sorry, I guess I am not very picky.

I could not agree more! That is exactly why I like the plan. It is very convenient to pay for all of your trip (including food) months in advance. This way whatever money you do bring is for the extras. I have always looked for all inclusive type vacations for this very reason. We will be making our second trip in 2007 to WDW and are going primarily for the overall experience - rather than fine dining.

 

[CPer'sMom]

One thing I find really funny about this whole debate is that those with the DDP keep talking about the "great value" of using the plan. Yes, I'm sure for some it is a very good value IF you are able to get one of room discounts (AAA?) in conjunction with the plan. At first I didn't think there were any room discounts available with the plan, but I've read that some are able to add that in too.

BUT for those who are paying rack rate and adding the plan .... Honestly, it's not such a "great" deal. I'm sure many people doing the DDP do not take the time to look for a discount on their room rate (or not even know about the possibility of getting a room discount). They are told about the DDP and the price and think "wow, what a great deal!" and thus, book the room/DDP without even knowing there are other options.
(Now, I realize that doesn't apply to any DIS readers since everyone here knows all about the codes and all )

Then there are those who simply like the DDP because they don't have to "think about" paying for food while at WDW. While that might be easier it's not always less expensive to do it that way.

Take the time to go over all your options before simply grabbing the DDP because Disney tells you it's a great way to plan your vacation!

 

[jodifla]

I could not agree more! That is exactly why I like the plan. It is very convenient to pay for all of your trip (including food) months in advance. This way whatever money you do bring is for the extras. I have always looked for all inclusive type vacations for this very reason. We will be making our second trip in 2007 to WDW and are going primarily for the overall experience - rather than fine dining.

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

 

[CPer'sMom]

No offense, but twice, big deal!

 

[First timer]

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

Yes, I am offended. I was dicussing the convenience of the plan and because of it AND THE ATTRACTIONS at WDW, and other offerings I am going back a second time. Not because of FINE DINING - which I can get every single day on any block surrounding my work location. So for me the FINE DINING issue is on the bottom of the totem pole.

 

[disneyjunkie]

One thing I find really funny about this whole debate is that those with the DDP keep talking about the "great value" of using the plan. Yes, I'm sure for some it is a very good value IF you are able to get one of room discounts (AAA?) in conjunction with the plan. At first I didn't think there were any room discounts available with the plan, but I've read that some are able to add that in too.

BUT for those who are paying rack rate and adding the plan .... Honestly, it's not such a "great" deal. I'm sure many people doing the DDP do not take the time to look for a discount on their room rate (or not even know about the possibility of getting a room discount). They are told about the DDP and the price and think "wow, what a great deal!" and thus, book the room/DDP without even knowing there are other options.
(Now, I realize that doesn't apply to any DIS readers since everyone here knows all about the codes and all )

You can book the dining along with a room code. I was able to do just that for our April 2005 trip. I was also able to do it for our Feb.2007 trip. The only discounts the dining can't be used with are AP and CM discounts. (I'm not sure about Florida resident discounts)

If I had to choose between an AP rate and paying OOP for meals, or paying rack rate and booking the DDP, I'd go with the DDP.

If I were paying for the meals OOP, I wouldn't do as many TS. Instead of having a TS meal each day, I'd only book 2 maybe 3. The other meals would be CS and items purchased from a local grocery store.

 

[disneyjunkie]

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

The powers that be know that you'll be back. Now they're working on the new folks.

I only have 3 trips under my belt. I'm hoping to purchase DVC next summer. (AKL ) Since I don't believe cooking and vacation should be used in the same sentence, I'll still book the DDP when we become DVC members.

 

[Santa]

This is a tough thread.
On one hand you get a great value.
On the other hand you get cheaper quality.

 

[deltachi8]

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

Yep, your right all those firts timers should stay away and bow to Queen Jodi, she rules, her opinion is the only one that counts!!

Why can't people have a different opinion than yours?

Do you think Disney is out to screw you somehow? Honestly? Perhapps they are just trying to draw more visitors in for longer periods of time and to keep them away from the other competitors in the Central Florida Vacation market?

That i sjust my opinion, of course because I have only been to disney about 10 times, it should only count about 1/6 or less of yours, right?