RANT: I don't care if you want to sit next to your kids on the airplane

[Aliceacc]

OK, taking a step back...

At this point in time, my kids are all old enough to sit alone. If I were ASKED to switch seats so that a family with kids could sit together, I would do so. I have no medical issues that make one seat preferable to another. I'm 5'4" and petite, so I'm OK with the middle seat.. heck, that's the one I'm taking for our trip to WDW in a few weeks so the kids can have the window and my husband can have the aisle. I'm generally a pretty accommodating person. So, sure, I would give up my seat.

We've all been there. Things happen. Sometimes you've done everything right-- booked assigned seats, planned a trip to avoid cranky time, dotted your i's and crossed your t's... and still things happen.

That's absolutely not my point though.

My stand on this is that you only have a right to "demand"--- though that's only the route I would choose after all the polite options had been exhausted-- what you've paid for, and from the person to whom you've paid it.

So the mom in the OP, had she paid for adjoining seats, after having explained and requested and explained again, might find herself rightly demanding that the airline give her the adjoining seats she had paid for.

She had no right, under any circumstances, to demand that any other passenger on that plane do anything for her.

Had she chosen NOT to pay for assigned seats, then her argument is far weaker. Airlines like Southwest-- not sure who else-- charge less. But they also choose not to offer the perk of letting you choose where or with whom you sit. All your ticket guarantees is that you'll have a seat.

This isn't about whether or not the other passengers chose to do her the favor she demanded of them. This is about her choice to demand a favor from the other passengers for a perk she chose not to pay for. Or her choice to play the sympathy card-- badly, ill mannerdly-- instead of being reasonable with the airline and working with them.

 

[DizneyMommy]

She had no right, under any circumstances, to demand that any other passenger on that plane do anything for her.

Had she chosen NOT to pay for assigned seats, then her argument is far weaker. Airlines like Southwest-- not sure who else-- charge less. But they also choose not to offer the perk of letting you choose where or with whom you sit. All your ticket guarantees is that you'll have a seat.

This isn't about whether or not the other passengers chose to do her the favor she demanded of them. This is about her choice to demand a favor from the other passengers for a perk she chose not to pay for.

No, she absolutely does not. And I would never suggest anyone do anything other than ask kindly.

But my point was that we don’t know her situation, and “demand” can be subjective. On a crowded noisy plane of people boarding, and with the mom stressed to the gills from the situation with the weather and the seats, it’s possible that the OP misinterpreted her tone a bit and she was stressed and maybe asserted herself more than she should. Rather than shut her down, assume she wants the OP’s better seat that he/she paid extra for, and then come here to blast the woman, maybe the OP could have put himself in the mom’s shoes for a minute and offered another solution, or offered help in another way. Or at least showed some kindness which goes a long way for someone who was clearly having a bad day. If she were a single traveler and just wanted a better seat, ok that’s being a jerk, but a mom trying to take care of her child, I’m going to take a beat to offer help, even if she is angry and stressed and didn’t ask nicely.

 

[LSUmiss]

You don't have to like my opinion it's fine.

Chances are the PP wouldn't even know any of the details of the other 4 traveling party if they had been the one moved instead of them..but you never know what their story/situation would have been...well we already know where you stand on grace and compassion.

BTW saying things like terrified, crying half the time.. *sigh*

And sorry I don't think it's a mistake on the airline to switch planes. What mistake was it? That they likely randomly (or selected the last row of Business Class from the original plane) and it just happened to be the PP who had children? It could have someone else. Is there no thought to how another traveling party would have felt? I guess not since you framed your comments so much on 'poor mom and her kids' It's just raw unluckiness that it was the PP. Does it suck that they were so young? Of course it does. It's part of the unluckiness. The alternative that I suppose you're thinking is to have the FAs force someone else to give up their seat.

ETA: FWIW I used to fly standby a lot because my stepmom was a travel agent. It happened where we were separated on the plane (one of the ones I remember I was 11) and there was a time too where my step mom and I flew on one flight and my dad and my sister flew on a flight about an hour after ours had left.

Are ppl really saying that an innocent 3 year old child doesn’t deserve more compassion than a grown adult with a greater capability to cope? Things are not always equal.

 

[sk!mom]

I cannot believe how many people here just say tough luck. Do any of you saying that actually have kids?

Her kids are 3. THREE years old. They cannot sit alone. You would not want them to sit alone, they would probably be terrified and cry half the time. Especially on an international flight. It is the airline’s responsibility. They got a different plane that could not accommodate the original bookings. The airline chose to change the plane. How on EARTH can you say, well too bad your 3 year olds should have to sit alone with no adult and the airline has no responsibility to fix that mistake? Because that’s what it is, their mistake. They can see the ages of those passengers when they bump them, they should have fixed it immediately.

And I’m sorry but a whole flight full of people for 20 minutes refused to help this poor mom? That is sad. Really sad.

Completely different if 4 random adults are moved to seats apart from each other vs 3 year old children. I’m sorry that is not even a comparison. Yes, they should have looked at the ages of the kids and moved someone else. Unless those adults all need to be taken to the bathroom by their Mom.

And yes, a 3 year old could very easily be terrified sitting on an airplane surrounded by strangers and not be able to see his parents. Especially if he is not used to flying. Have you ever had a toddler? Would you park your 3 year old in a row on a long distance flight with strangers and hope for the best?

Honestly, I question the stories of small children (under 5) being expected by the airline to sit alone. I have never witnessed that in all my years of flying. In my experience, if the children are small, the airline takes care of asking or just reassigning others. What I have seen often, is parents buying economy seats and then asking others to move so, "we can sit together." As I said upthread, pay what's necessary to sit together. If the airline changes that, let them know before boarding that you have children in your party incapable of sitting alone.

My family's needs are just as important as yours and it isn't a passenger's responsibility to work it out. Work it out with the airline before boarding!

 

[SaintsManiac]

This thread. Wow.

I bet IRL much of the bravado and stubbornness exhibited in this thread would disappear. *poof*

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Are ppl really saying that an innocent 3 year old child doesn’t deserve more compassion than a grown adult with a greater capability to cope? Things are not always equal.

No that's not really the point of the comments but yeah I guess it's easy to take that and run with that takeaway regardless of whether it's actually what's being said.

 

[LSUmiss]

Well, I HAVE an almost 3 year old myself and 2 other kids who have flown since they were 2. I would never allow them to be stuck in a seat and aisle apart from me. They cannot take care of themselves. What I do have knowledge of is 3 different kids of my own, and several others I’ve traveled with, and what their natural behavior is. And I don’t know another mother on this planet that would be fine with it either.

Adults may not WANT to be moved, but if they can physically take care of themselves then that is a non-comparison. Want and need are two different things.

Exactly. Young children do not have the same ability to cope! If it were me, I’d have to just deplane if there were no other choice b/c there is absolutely no way my 3 yr old is sitting with strangers! Now, I’ve said before I always do everything in my power to avoid a situation like this & would not demand anything of another passenger, but I would refuse to fly if that happened.

 

[ronandannette]

This is not a sure thing. Once on an international flight, I booked seats for my husband and our two then barely 3-year old sons, each one sitting next to a parent, and we even paid a huge amount for business class because we were so nervous about traveling internationally and were wanted everything to go smoothly. When we arrived at the gate, they said they had to change planes to one with fewer business rows, and since we we were in one of the rows that got "cut" they had to reassign us... with all four seats literally in different corners on the plane. I was in tears begging them to fix it, but they said there was nothing they could do (even though it was their fault in the first place) and I would have to take my chances persuading people to move. My children were unquestionably too young to be alone - they needed help cutting up their food, going to the bathroom, and would have been terrified out of sight of mom or dad for hours and hours. When we boarded and explained the situation that we had booked together and the airline changed our seats, nobody in our rows volunteered. I had to walk up and down asking every row for about twenty minutes until I finally found people who were willing to trade so we could have two sets of two seats together. I was so shocked that people were so unfeeling.

So you were moved from business to coach without any refund? Aren't those seats usually 2 or more times as expensive? That alone doesn't seem fathomable.

 

[DizneyMommy]

WOW. So now we’ve moved on to acusing all of the parents who’ve had their seats moved away from their child of lying?

 

[mnrose]

It actually CAN happen, depending on whether you bought a business class seat OR bought an"upgrade" to a business class seat using a coach class fare. It's pretty complicated. But, you've got to read the fine print. This is Delta's Rule #2:

Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to transport you and your baggage from your origin to your destination with reasonable dispatch, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22. Delta is not responsible or liable for making connections, failing to operate any flight according to schedule, changing the schedule or any flight, changing seat assignments or aircraft types, or revising the routings by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination.​

Rule 22 doesn't offer much solace either, unless you happen to be flying on a fully refundable ticket, which most people aren't even if Business and first class. Delta's obligation is to get you to your destination. Period. No specific seat or class of service. Now, as a matter of customer satisfaction, they will generally offer to refund the difference between the business class seat and whatever seat they gave you. Or, maybe they will give you some sky pesos (miles).

 

[sk!mom]

WOW. So now we’ve moved on to acusing all of the parents who’ve had their seats moved away from their child of lying?

Not accusing anyone of lying. I just have never witnessed very young kids separated. Which means that I think it is a very rare occurrence. One that can almost always be avoided with planning and the willingness to buy assigned seats. Further, if all preplanning, buying fails, I will stand by the statement that working it out with the airline prior to boarding is the way to go.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Completely different if 4 random adults are moved to seats apart from each other vs 3 year old children. I’m sorry that is not even a comparison. Yes, they should have looked at the ages of the kids and moved someone else. Unless those adults all need to be taken to the bathroom by their Mom

First, the disparaging comment really wasn't necessary. It appears the airline moved the fewest people possible. Business Class had one less row. Rather than move multiple rows of passengers, they assigned only the passengers with the nonexistent seats to available seats. Several posters have provided the most reasonable action when the airline wouldn't help - get off the plane and fly later.

Are ppl really saying that an innocent 3 year old child doesn’t deserve more compassion than a grown adult with a greater capability to cope? Things are not always equal.

The four adults don't deserve less compassion in a situation they didn't cause.

This thread. Wow.

I bet IRL much of the bravado and stubbornness exhibited in this thread would disappear. *poof*

You might be wrong. See my earlier post regarding my seat-swap experience.

If it were me, I’d have to just deplane if there were no other choice

This.

 

[ronandannette]

WOW. So now we’ve moved on to acusing all of the parents who’ve had their seats moved away from their child of lying?

Not at all. I just find it an outrage if in fact the PP was deprived of business-class seats without a refund. It's akin to fraud as far as I can see and I'd like to understand a little more clearly how that incident went.

 

[Aliceacc]

Question: when did the "child" in the OP become a 3 year old?

I realize that someone else posted an example involving a 3 year old, but the vast majority of us are still responding to the OP, where a woman with a child demanded that others change seats with her.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

If the seat didn't look too bad and the child was young I may have switched possibly if asked nicely. It would depend. But I don't think it's fair to get on the poster who wanted their assigned aisle seat tho. I'm not a great flier myself and for me getting a good seat or good people next to you can mean the difference between a just tolerable flight and torture lol. If I were the mother I would have gotten another flight if I were that worried about my child. And it would be the airline/flight attendant that I would be asking for help in this situation, before another passenger.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I completely understand what you're saying about 3 year olds in general not being capable of flying without a parent nearby. I have an almost 3 year old, as well as another who passed 3 several years ago, and there's no way I'd be comfortable with one of them at 3 on the other side of the plane.

Yes, there are circumstances where parents plan and pay in advance to sit with their kids, but planes or flights change due to maintenance, weather, etc, and their seats may change. I would not suck it up, but I also would not rely on asking other passengers myself to change seats to accommodate us sitting together. It is not their responsibility. Everybody has reasons for choosing to sit where they do and that doesn't make one family's needs more important than another's. If the airline bumps you, then they are responsible for doing what they can to accommodate your seating needs on that flight or helping you to find another flight. It's a crappy, sometimes unavoidable situation, but it's not the responsibility of other passengers to make it right. If someone is nice and moves to help out, then great, but even if an entire plane refuses to switch, that does not make them heartless.

I understand that everyone has their reasons, but I actually do think some reasons trump others.

For instance, DS is older now, but when he was a baby, I needed to sit next to him, while I only wanted to sit next to DH. If we had planned 3 seats together, but circumstances had interfered, scattering us far apart would have been a major problem, but splitting us 2 and 1 would only have been a minor annoyance.

If importance falls along a scale even within one person's reason's, of course it would among a bunch of people's. (And I get that some of those more important reasons are medical issues for adults, not just children!)

My stand on this is that you only have a right to "demand"--- though that's only the route I would choose after all the polite options had been exhausted-- what you've paid for, and from the person to whom you've paid it.

So the mom in the OP, had she paid for adjoining seats, after having explained and requested and explained again, might find herself rightly demanding that the airline give her the adjoining seats she had paid for...Had she chosen NOT to pay for assigned seats, then her argument is far weaker...

I agree. I don't think anyone should be trying to cheat, but I do think the airlines should work to fix problems that are created by plane changes, weather, etc. That's why they offer bribes like free drinks for people willing to change. - Those with less important reasons will be swayed by those offers, while those with more important reasons won't.

(And if you're ultimately the one in a worse seat, I do think they should refund any upcharge you paid.)

Honestly, I question the stories of small children (under 5) being expected by the airline to sit alone. I have never witnessed that in all my years of flying. In my experience, if the children are small, the airline takes care of asking or just reassigning others. What I have seen often, is parents buying economy seats and then asking others to move so, "we can sit together." As I said upthread, pay what's necessary to sit together. If the airline changes that, let them know before boarding that you have children in your party incapable of sitting alone...

And yes, before boarding is definitely the time to deal with this stuff!

 

[NHdisneylover]

I can think of two times when I was separated from my kids while they were still quite young. This is out of a half dozen or more flights per year (but we did what we should(aid as we should to be kept together when it was important that we were)

The first was in October 2001. we had seats all booked together---our plane had just started boarding those in wheel chairs when DS, who was 2, leaned back in what we learned was a broken chair at the gate---the slingback snapped off and he fell back into a support bar underneath and cracked his head open.
Northwest had us on a later flight by the time an ambulance got to LAX to take him for what turned out to be 7 staples in the back of his head. They were not bale to get our luggage back to us and the gift shops were all closed by the time we returned to the airport for our now very late night departure.

The plane the rebooked us on was full and we were in 4 seats scattered across the plane. The ER doctors had cleared my little one to fly, but wanted me to monitor him and wake him every half hour to be sure he did not have a concussion. So there we were in the airport, two parents with blood stained shirts on, a 4 year old and a 2 year old with a bandaged head---an a long line of angry people yelling at the gate agent because they wanted to sit with a spouse or teen and could not. DH went up and waited/asked first and was told there was nothing that could be done. So I went up, carrying the injured toddler. I wasn't angry at the poor gate angent, but I did want to make it clear WHY we were asking that somehow, someway at least two seats together be found. If not, I was set to ask that we be rebooked for a flight out the next day instead.
The gate agent was dialing a manager to ask what could be done when a couple sitting near that desk offered to trade with me----the said that this was a rare example of someone really needing it through no fault of their own. I am still grateful to those people (and for the record, the 4 year old, who had had a rough night seeing their brother bleeding all over and then at the ER, etc---sat alone, and we did not presume to ask anyone to move for hat kid---as it was not a NEED).


The other time was me travelling alone with the kids ages 5 and 7. There was an aircraft change which resulted on our three seats together becoming 2 and one a few rows ahead. I was on the aisle and could see their middle an window seats across and two rows back easily--no big deal. The FA asked the man sitting on the aisle in the row with my kids to change (we did not ask her to do this, but it was sweet). He refused (I take no issue with that---who knows why he preffered the seat he did)---and he cussed at her for asking (seriously, and loudly and very rudely). I admit I kind of wished the kids would misbehave or spill a drink on him as he continued to treated the FAs horribly the whole time. Alas, the kids were pretty dang well behaved and didn't spill a thing.

Karma did kick in though-----all 30 or so of us who had flown from New York to Mexico City before getting on that flight to Puerto Vallarta arrived to find no luggage. It was the last flight of the night and the few remaining airport workers did not speak English. The rude passenger kept cursing at employees there. I was fluent in Spanish and stuck around to help my fellow passengers file reports until it got down to him and one other guy who had been rudely shoving in lines in Mexico City and at boarding----then I told the staff that I would help with those two if they, staff, wanted me to but would prefer not to help such rude people---staff told me to go on and get some sleep and police were already on the way for the man yelling obscenities.

 

[kimmar067]

Obviously it's your choice and she certainly shouldn't have "demanded" which seems odd anyways since she doesn't have any control over it, but out of curiosity if she had another aisle seat (did she? you didn't say) would you have politely switched her seats, since you would have been getting the same type of seat? While I def. don't agree and don't like rude people, anytime I'm on a plane and there's a party split up, if the seats are the same I always volunteer to switch them seats. - I just don't think it's a big deal.

....I agree. On the flight back home [in March] a husband and wife were separated by two rows and left/right. I offered to switch seats with his wife, as long as her seat was a window seat (mine was)...no biggie....

 

[rigs32]

I also said “help” wasn’t necessarily giving up your seat.

But what can another passenger do in a situation like this? I see two options: 1) give up their seat or 2) convince someone else to give up their seat.

 

[NotUrsula]

Separation of kids under age 5 *is* very rare, because 5 is the US legal age for a child to fly unaccompanied. (SWA is a slightly different case, because of course they don't assign seats that would force a family apart. With them, passengers are always in control of their seating choices, unless there is a delayed connecting flight, in which case, IME, the FA's will go to great lengths to bribe someone if necessary to get that under-5 seated with an adult in the party.)

If you are traveling with an under-5, and you absolutely MUST be seated next to that child, the best way to guarantee it is to use a harnessed carseat on board. FAA regulations require that an adult in the party be seated next to the carseat to be responsible for getting the child out of it in an emergency, so that is one of the very few conditions where the FA's are actually empowered to force someone else to move to accommodate a party of 2. (Note that in years of frequent flying, I've never seen a situation where it came to that. Bribes of a class upgrade, free liquor or FF points pretty much always work.) Also note that it is US law that on domestic carriers, if you have purchased a seat for the placement of the carseat, you cannot be forced to forego it's use.

Note that courtesy demands that on an airline that normally assigns seats, it is crucial to alert the airline as soon as you purchase your tickets that you intend to use a carseat on board. That advance notice is your backstop in case of an equipment change. Also, ALWAYS make it a point to frequently check your reservations to be sure that nothing has changed on you; the further in advance you can ask for a fix, the happier everyone will be, including the airline.