Rant from a Disney Optimist

[DSLRuser]

The OP was able to make a direct comparison to CM behavior at Universal, so this tired old dismissal of another person's experience doesn't hold up so well.

But they were not frustrated with Universal to begin with. the mind set was different.

 

[clsteve]

It's been that way for years (in my experience). Universal CM's have been better for several years now.

And they're pumped, right now.

Why? Two things came up over and over when I was there in Jan.: Daigon Alley and the long term plan beyond it. Things are happening, happening on time, and they can see it. You cannot discount how important that is to a staff and its morale, and it reflected in how they approached their work. This bodes well for UO for the near future, at least. I was also surprised about how much they knew about MM+ and were openly talking about it with me - not at all in a Disney-bashing way, but more in a “I really feel sorry for what my friend/spouse/neighbor is going through down there” kind of way. All I can say is, the overall satisfaction level of the TM’s seemed quite high.

 

[redrosesix]

We just returned from a five day trip (17-22) and I thought I'd add my two cents. Let me preface my comments by saying DH and I have been to WDW 10 times. We are sympathetic to people who work with the public and do not have a sense of entitlement. We knew that FP+ had some issues and were willing to take a "wait and see" attitude. If lines were long, our plans were to just soak up the atmosphere and make the best of it.

Even with the right frame of mind, it was still a frustrating experience. Before I complain, though, this is what was great:

1) Magic Bands. They are so convenient! We loved them. It's fun to watch the Mickey light turn green. And it really does feel like magic when you make a FP+ reservation and you can use your magic band to get through.

2) Flower and Garden Festival kiosks. The food was great and it was a great use of dining snack credits.

3) Mousekeeping at AKL was great. Lots of nice towel animals and room was really clean.

4) Boma and Jiko. Fantastic.

5) Other guests. Despite what other people have been saying, everyone we came in contact with seemed to be very nice and considerate.

6) Dumbo. We used to have to run to avoid a long wait, now it's a leisurely walk-on.

7) New Fantasyland. Ariel's castle is beautiful.


Now for the Not So Great:

1) Cast members. A friendly cast member was more the exception than the rule. We had spent two days at Universal before WDW and their cast members blew WDW's out of the water.

2) The crowds. We have never seen the parks so crowded.

3) FP+ and MDE. On a good day, we were able to do many attractions, but no re-rides of our favorites. On a bad day, we hardly got to ride anything. Twice, we only used 2 FP+ because our kids decided they didn't want to go on two rides that we had passes for. We tried to use MDE to switch to another pass and it just didn't work. We went to a kiosk to ask for help and they couldn't help us, either. We had to spend WAY too much time glued to the app. One morning, my husband spend our first two hours at Epcot trying to work out a dining reservation and FP+ problem we had. It was not fun. It's very difficult to be locked in with dining reservations and FP+ when you have children. And making changes is frustrating.

4) Park Hopper Tickets. They are virtually useless now with the FP+ system. By the time you make it to another park, standby lines are long and FP+s are gone.

5) Condition of the parks. Disney used to take so much pride in cleanliness and never having a burnt out lightbulb. Now, so many things are in disrepair. I can't understand why there are so many unused buildings in Epcot. So many things need updating. Even the long, dark stretch of the PeopleMover seems ridiculous. Can't they add some lighting effects, or paint? Something? The decline is really starting to show.

6) EMH. Only one monorail train was running, which meant we didn't get into the park until 8:15am. I think many people in the line behind us didn't get to the park before 9:00am. By the time we got to the park, Peter Pan was already up to a 30 minute wait and once Frontierland opened BTMRR was immediately 45 minutes. Getting our kids up early was not worth it.

7) Can I just say how ridiculous the Beast's castle looks? It looks like someone left a toy castle on top of a rock. The scale just doesn't work. It really looks chintzy.

8) BOG FP+ was lost. I don't know what happened, but we weren't in the system. And they weren't too sympathetic about it.

I have to say that DH and I have decided not to return to WDW until the FP+ problems are sorted out. This was the most stressful trip to WDW we've ever had.
We spent way too much time trying to get the buggy app to work. We rode many fewer rides than usual. And I'd love to say that just soaking up the atmosphere was enough, but it was really too crowded to do that. I hate to pull the "I paid $$$ for this vacation and deserve better" but it's true. We pay a premium to go to Disney because we've had great experiences in the past and now the value isn't there for us. Still, I'm confident Disney will work this out. We just won't be visiting until that happens.

Great post. Our trip was similar, especially the bolded, minus any issues with ADRs since we had none on park days. But we didn't have a good experience with our second set of bands -- DDs rarely worked properly. There are obviously some duds. I honestly didn't find them to be any more convenient than the KTTW cards but we did like them for swimming.

We didn't find the parks more crowded than previous years, since we had no problem finding tables in CS restaurants or a place to watch parades or fireworks -- and we usually do on our dates in February. But certainly less space in the parks with the FP+ queues.

 

[JennyDrake]

Now for the Not So Great:

1) Cast members. A friendly cast member was more the exception than the rule. We had spent two days at Universal before WDW and their cast members blew WDW's out of the water.

2) The crowds. We have never seen the parks so crowded.

5) Condition of the parks. Disney used to take so much pride in cleanliness and never having a burnt out lightbulb. Now, so many things are in disrepair. I can't understand why there are so many unused buildings in Epcot. So many things need updating. Even the long, dark stretch of the PeopleMover seems ridiculous. Can't they add some lighting effects, or paint? Something? The decline is really starting to show.

.

Just my 2 cents:

I've been an AP holder for 10 years with over 40 visits over 20 years. For the last 8 years I've gone 3-4 times per year.

1) CMs- I noticed a marked difference when WDW changed from a 2 day "Traditions" course for new CMs to one day. I think the whole FP+/MB thing has just worn down and worn out the nerves of most CMs. We noticed the MK CMs were by far the most frazzled and snippy.

2) Crowds- crowd levels should not be ranked as: crowded, very crowded, unbelievably crowded and miserably crowded. The slow times as we once knew them are gone for good.

5) Condition of the parks - I don't notice it as much in the parks as at the resorts. Our second visit in 1996, maintenance people were touching up the DOOR FRAMES at CBR with an artist paint brush where the door chain had chipped the paint. It was most impressive. Upon too many recent visits, I have noted the same price of trash in the landscaping (various) resorts for my entire stay. Until _I_ finally threw it away.

 

[rainwatter]

And they're pumped, right now. Why? Two things came up over and over when I was there in Jan.: Daigon Alley and the long term plan beyond it.

We are heading to Orlando this June, and plan to do US/IOA for the first time just as they open Diagon Alley (DD has grown into a huge poter-head). We were planning to go after Disney, but now I'm thinking of going there first. Then WDW will seem almost empty and the SB lines will seem microscopic by comparison

 

[JimmyV]

While I'm glad to read that the Universal TM's are impressing people, they don't have to deal with this massive shift going on at WDW right now.

I think you typed an extra letter!!

 

[Son of Gadsden]

Now for the Not So Great:

1) Cast members. A friendly cast member was more the exception than the rule. We had spent two days at Universal before WDW and their cast members blew WDW's out of the water.

2) The crowds. We have never seen the parks so crowded.

3) FP+ and MDE. On a good day, we were able to do many attractions, but no re-rides of our favorites. On a bad day, we hardly got to ride anything. Twice, we only used 2 FP+ because our kids decided they didn't want to go on two rides that we had passes for. We tried to use MDE to switch to another pass and it just didn't work. We went to a kiosk to ask for help and they couldn't help us, either. We had to spend WAY too much time glued to the app. One morning, my husband spend our first two hours at Epcot trying to work out a dining reservation and FP+ problem we had. It was not fun. It's very difficult to be locked in with dining reservations and FP+ when you have children. And making changes is frustrating.

4) Park Hopper Tickets. They are virtually useless now with the FP+ system. By the time you make it to another park, standby lines are long and FP+s are gone.

5) Condition of the parks. Disney used to take so much pride in cleanliness and never having a burnt out lightbulb. Now, so many things are in disrepair. I can't understand why there are so many unused buildings in Epcot. So many things need updating. Even the long, dark stretch of the PeopleMover seems ridiculous. Can't they add some lighting effects, or paint? Something? The decline is really starting to show.

6) EMH. Only one monorail train was running, which meant we didn't get into the park until 8:15am. I think many people in the line behind us didn't get to the park before 9:00am. By the time we got to the park, Peter Pan was already up to a 30 minute wait and once Frontierland opened BTMRR was immediately 45 minutes. Getting our kids up early was not worth it.

7) Can I just say how ridiculous the Beast's castle looks? It looks like someone left a toy castle on top of a rock. The scale just doesn't work. It really looks chintzy.

8) BOG FP+ was lost. I don't know what happened, but we weren't in the system. And they weren't too sympathetic about it.

Let me just say this is one of the better critical posts I have read. I enjoyed the read. It was whiny, it wasn't overly exaggerated, or sour grapes. It came across as very reasonable.

1) We had the same issue, however I won't say it was as bad for us as it was for you. I'm also not going to say "well, you just must be a jerk" like some others have. I think just like Wendy's or McDonalds, depending on who is working that day, you can have a great experience or a bad one. Disney employees are regular people, and maybe the guy's girlfriend just broke up with him, maybe the girl's dad just died, maybe they're having a bad day, or maybe they're just a jerk. We had more bad experiences than normal on our last trip, but overall still a higher amount of good experiences than in the normal world. Guest relations was our worst. Lots of people that didn't speak good english were handling rather complicated issues. I had a couple frustrated, low patience CMs, and a very condescending one as well. We then had a couple employees that treated us like we sneaked into the park during the Christmas party because we didn't have wristbands...though we showed them our tickets. Other than that, we had good experiences. I think MM+ may be really testing the CMs, and on top of that, we had really bad guest experiences. When the park is filled with jerks, it has to wear on them.

2) The crowds have seemed fairly lower than normal, though we visit on low capacity days, since we had no kids.

3) We had a couple fastpass issues, which the CMs quickly took our word for and fixed. I guess it just depends on which CMs you get, once again, and your luck while they work the glitches out. The ADRs are just a necessary evil, I think. The crowds are huge, no one would ever get to do anything anymore dining wise if ADRs were not available. And obviously enough abuse of the system was taking place to justify locking you in with penalties if you don't show up. The bad ruin it for the good.

4) I could see how hoppers may be affecting some. We don't use FPs anyway, so we aren't really affected. However, if you are one that does, I would think that your strategy definitely needs to be changed. I would suggest making fastpasses for the park you'll be hopping to, and arriving early at the first park (on a non magic hour day). This would get you in the shorter lines of the day, then hop to the busier park to use your FPs. Then possibly hop again to a third park at night when the lines are shorter again. Under that strategy, I would say hoppers are more necessary than ever.

5) We, too, had a bad experience with park maintenance last April. Maybe it's a spring cleaning thing? lol. One of the cannons in Stitch's ride was broken. The first three rides (BTMR, Haunted Mansion, Pirates) that we tried were broken down. Several rides went under maintenance each day, Space Mountains lights were on because they were working on PeopleMover, etc. During our trip in December, however, there were no maintenance issues at all that we could see. I think it might just depend on what time of year you go, or once again, luck.

6) We always have good EMH experiences, but we avoid mornings. We're early risers for work, so we try and sleep in on vacation. I would imagine they are a madhouse.

7) It is kind of a stretch on forced perspective, isn't it? I wish they would have done a better job, as well. In their defense, I will say they did build two new castles, and a huge expansion (though some choose to downplay exactly how big it is). A lot of people around here complain about the construction walls, how long it takes, etc. Disney seemed to rush this one and cut the costs a bit. I think it could have turned out much better, but you win some, you lose some. Disney takes risks. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. I still rather enjoy looking at the castle.

8) Never used it. We did ADRs last time and it worked out great. We're going to try the BOG FP this trip. Hopefully it works out better than it did for you.

 

[Wef]

I can see FP+ working well for some guests--namely those without small children. But when you put kiddos in the equation, you really need more flexibility. My kids were talking about Space Mountain for MONTHS before our trip, but when it was time to ride it, they lost their nerve. We couldn't make our FP+s for too late in the day because they were tired. We couldn't take advantage of late EMHs because, again, they were too tired. It's difficult to develop a strategy when you really need flexibility.

 

[leebee]

In the past, the only less than cheery CM I've seen was clearly in a very stressful situation, having to explain that Fantasmic was standing room only. I'm wondering why there seem to be more negative CM interactions lately? Are they facing more stressful situations, with the tech issues and FP+ changes? Less training and less competent management? Lower hiring standards, possibly because of less competitive wages and benefits? High turnover for the same reason? Are young people just less considerate in general, texting at work, laughing at adults, and having attitude instead of appreciation for employment? (We have seen that lately with restaurant waitstaff and we're considerate customers and generous tippers.) A combination of all, I would assume.

The cleanliness also I would guess is a combination of janitorial issues and guests being less considerate about their own messes.

Just a thought… but Disney used to hire people full time as CMs. I think a lot of CMs now are either just part time employees, or college kids on the College Program. COULD make a difference in attitude of the CMs. I know when DD was supposed to do the CP (she ended up declining) and was trying to find roommates, she was appalled at some of the attitudes of the income CP participants. I am not saying this is all, or even the majority, of CP CMs, but if there are enough of them, it'll be obvious. Also, I can't expect that college kids who work for Disney for 4 or 5 months are going to have anywhere near as much knowledge about Disney World as those who were there full time for years.

 

[BrianL]

It's been that way for years (in my experience). Universal CM's have been better for several years now.

It's funny how peopecan have such wildly varying experieces. have never found the Universal cast members to be nearly as friendly as Disney's. I mean, most of them are perfectly pleasant in an unnoticable sor tof way, but overall they seemed les friendly and willing to help. Maybe Disney CMs are chnging because of all this FP+ stufff, i was only there for a short trip since that started (though all CMs were great except one).

I really think it's just the luck of the draw. Sure, Disney has some good CMs and some bad CMs. So does Uni. They always have, alway will. It seems to only take one bad interaction to make people jump to the conclusion that "Disney's CMs are going downhill" when it was probably just the one person.

 

[clsteve]

Just a thought… but Disney used to hire people full time as CMs. I think a lot of CMs now are either just part time employees, or college kids on the College Program. COULD make a difference in attitude of the CMs. I know when DD was supposed to do the CP (she ended up declining) and was trying to find roommates, she was appalled at some of the attitudes of the income CP participants. I am not saying this is all, or even the majority, of CP CMs, but if there are enough of them, it'll be obvious. Also, I can't expect that college kids who work for Disney for 4 or 5 months are going to have anywhere near as much knowledge about Disney World as those who were there full time for years.

College Program = Cheap Labor

That's TDO's choice and easily fixed: for a price.........

 

[norybell]

(Quite a few posts were made while I was typing this; I apologize if any of it is repetitive!)

We had good experiences with most of the CMs at our resort -- but most of the ones we dealt with have been there for a few years. With one exception...one of the college girls (and I know because I looked at her name tag) with an iPod at the front desk line had the worst possible attitude -- she was ticking the guests off before they even checked in. Talk about rude. And after that experience, I noticed more and more it was the younger CMs that had the unmagical attitude -- also probably college kids. BTMRR was the worst -- arguing with each other, nearly yelling at people to get out of the cars faster, and basically making the guests feel like they were cattle being herded for branding.

And I don't blame the college kids at all. I've had to manage college co-op students, and they are the ones that need the most hand holding when things are going wrong -- the most breaks, the most chats, the most advice. And I just don't think Disney is capable of doing this while they're retraining their permanent staff with FP+ and MBs, especially since it's the Concierge desk that's getting the bulk of FP+ issues in the resort. And I'm sure Disney assumes they can't put as much effort into these kids as their permanent staff since they'll be gone in what? 4 months? But they need to. Only people who have a lot of experience dealing with frantic, frustrated and overwhelmed guests can take it in stride and know that if you can fix their problem your reward makes it worth it. And that the next guest they meet might just make their day. For younger, less experienced, CMs it's up to their managers to support them through the harder times.

It does seem like they've become extremely overreliant on the college program these days...and I totally agree with you that the blame doesn't lie entirely with the students.

It used to feel like the CM breakdown went something like this (percentages are totally made up here): 75% friendly and helpful; 20% above and beyond, really creating magic; 5% openly surly or having a bad day. Meaning you had a very good chance of interacting with a super CM, and the cranky ones were truly an exception.

Now, over the past few years and particularly lately, it seems to have been gradually moving toward: 60% trying to be friendly and helpful, but clearly overworked and overtired and overstressed; 30% who just really don't care, would clearly rather be partying with their friends back in the dorm or sleeping in or something; and 10% who are truly terrible. Meaning you're almost certainly going to encounter one of the don't-care or terrible variety, and even the 60%, who are obviously trying, don't leave you with a magical feeling (on our last trip, I walked away from most CM interactions just feeling sorry for the poor CM, which is not the greatest vibe for a Disney park!).

I think some of it ends up being cyclical: big change (FP+) leads to more confused guests and more confused CMs; the combination of confused guests and confused CMs leads to more cranky guests; more cranky guests lead to more harried CMs; more harried CMs become less helpful; interacting with less-than-helpful CMs leads to more cranky guests; rinse, repeat. All exacerbated by staff cutbacks, lower budgets, aforementioned overreliance on college kids, etc.

But all that said, I do think the ultimate responsibility rests with the CMs and their management, not with the guests. No matter how cranky or crazy a guest is, it's part of customer service to put on your happy face, grit your teeth, and deal with them in a friendly and professional manner. It often sucks, and is totally exhausting and extremely difficult. We can all wish, of course, that the truly obnoxious guests would go away and make the CMs' jobs more pleasant. But, in the end, dealing with those people, and their less-obnoxious-but-still-difficult brethren, is what the job is. Dealing with a thousand people asking you -- with varying degrees of frustration -- about FP+ in a day is, at this point, what the job is. Dealing with disgusting bathrooms -- even though it is truly appalling, how some guests threat them! -- is what the job is. And if Disney can't make their work environment more bearable for their employees, and train and hire better, then I think their problems will soon go way beyond the debacle of FP+.

A good assumption.

Plus, the significant impact MM+ is having on the Ops Budget, right now has to be a contributing factor. Upwards of 50% per the earnings call. That's a huge amount that is being pulled from every other budget (such as staffing, maintenance, etc.). And, it has to be a significant factor in the stress levels across the board.......

50%???? That is insane. And it really explains so much.

 

[glamdring269]

Is anyone really shocked that since FP+ requires interaction with a Disney IT system that there are problems? I'm not going to say their website is one of the worst performing ones I've been on but... ok, maybe I will say that. The fact that the app is slow, unresponsive, non-intuitive, etc. really doesn't surprise me.

To be honest, when we tested this back in October the first comment I made was that the reason you can't use FP+ across multiple parks is because they probably couldn't figure out how to make it work in the app!

 

[nancipants]

It's funny how peopecan have such wildly varying experieces. have never found the Universal cast members to be nearly as friendly as Disney's. I mean, most of them are perfectly pleasant in an unnoticable sor tof way, but overall they seemed les friendly and willing to help. Maybe Disney CMs are chnging because of all this FP+ stufff, i was only there for a short trip since that started (though all CMs were great except one)

Agreed with this, and I have annual passes to both Universal and Disney. And I used to work at Citywalk.

 

[charmed59]

We went out on a last minute trip the week before President's weekend. The crowds were, well, crowds. And the FP+ And MBs were in full bloom.

Every time we entered a park at least one member of our party had trouble with the MB working. Though it always worked for the room and for paying for things. I love the idea of them.

As for the FP+, we only tried to get one, for soaring, at Epcot. It took us 30 min with a CM to get it entered onto our MB. Our traveling companions tried to get them in advance, but couldn't get them to work online.

The only grumpy CMs we ran into were all holding iPads, so I'm thinking the new IT systems might play a part in that.

Ironically, after getting the soaring FP, the wait for it was still 30 minutes, about the same time as the SB line.

I think Disney is still trying to figure out the timing. Perhaps they haven't factored in the DAC return times yet. Right in front of us in the FP line were 3 10person parties with return times, and I understand those don't have a end time, so after lunch might be more popular times for those with DACs. I noticed there was no wait for the FP line when we came out.

 

[FirstTimeDisneyVisit]

We have never encountered a rude or unpleasant CM .Maybe its bc we go in September and its less crowded but they are always very friendly and make the trip that more special.

 

[crostorfer]

The service at Universal really was SO much better. We struck up many conversations with security guards, ride operators, wait staff. They all seemed so genuine and welcoming. The service at the Royal Pacific pool was unbelievable! They brought us chilled towels, complimentary smoothie samples and frozen grapes. There was free sunscreen, newspapers, magazines, ice water with lemon slices. When I picked up our towels, someone offered to put a special lounge chair towel on our chair for us. I didn't need to be waited on THAT much, but asked if there was a special trick to putting the towel on. She said, "No, but I thought I'd offer to help!" THAT'S the kind of service Disney used to be known for.

I had this same experience at the RPR back in August 2012. Aren't they amazing?!?! I loved the service at the pool, and I loved that the afternoon pool activities were played for ice cream, smoothies, or cocktails for the adults!

 

[mom2rtk]

Is anyone really shocked that since FP+ requires interaction with a Disney IT system that there are problems? I'm not going to say their website is one of the worst performing ones I've been on but... ok, maybe I will say that. The fact that the app is slow, unresponsive, non-intuitive, etc. really doesn't surprise me.

To be honest, when we tested this back in October the first comment I made was that the reason you can't use FP+ across multiple parks is because they probably couldn't figure out how to make it work in the app!

I doubt that anybody is shocked that there are problems with a new system that relies so heavily on Disney IT. What I don't get is why Disney would think it was advisable to go forward with a such a system. I mean, are they the only ones who didn't know their IT stinks?

 

[ZoZo]

We have never encountered a rude or unpleasant CM .Maybe its bc we go in September and its less crowded but they are always very friendly and make the trip that more special.

I have found the same thing. I just went on a one-week trip a month ago, and had nothing but nice, friendly CMs.

 

[2Tiggies]

I doubt that anybody is shocked that there are problems with a new system that relies so heavily on Disney IT. What I don't get is why Disney would think it was advisable to go forward with a such a system. I mean, are they the only ones who didn't know their IT stinks?

I actually feel for those working in Disney IT right now. Not even those at the front face of guest services, but those who were given this project and a deadline and told to make it work; that it's going live by x date, ready or not. The more I experience, see and hear about MDE the more convinced I am that some Big Suits had a target date, that was the deadline and with no insight or regard whatsoever for the reasoning that I'm pretty sure was put forward more than once, it was going live for testing on this date, and next level expansion on the test on that date, and adding in this on the next date

The initial tests for select resort guests were on an opt-in basis so anyone participating in the test had chosen to do so. Fewer people using the system meant less strain on it. It was expected that there would be issues. What I did not expect was for them to just keep expanding on top of these issues, compounding more and more problems until they have something that I truly don't see how they can fix without halting it completely for a while. But they have removed their means to do so. Everyone is now completely reliant on the app/website. I was going to liken it to trying to change the spare wheel on a car while it's traveling at 100 mph .... but then I realized any reference to speed does not belong in the same sentence as Disney IT/Disney app/ Disney website .....