Race medal question....do all races give finisher medals to those who are swept?

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

So were you going for the tail end charlie award. When I did the 10K at the Air Force marathon in 2009, I finished 1320/1469.

On the not wanting to finish last question, for me, there is a difference between a last place finish that's in the mix and way back last place. At an extremely small 5K last winter I finished in 33:59, a huge PR for me. I was the last runner to cross the finish line the person in front of me finished in 33:29. There was then a 10 min. break before the first of the walkers finished in 43:33. Around here, people are usually very supportive of the people at the back of the pack.

Before entering a race, I usually look at last years results to see where I might finish. I skipped entering some races that seemed to be for a bit more serious runner. One was a charity run put on by one of the frats at a local college. The last finisher finished in just over 35:00. At the time, I was doing 45:00+ for a 5K. On the other hand, the very first 5K I did I finished in just under 1:00 and wasn't last.

Makes sense to me and I wish more people would share that. I definitely wasn't going for that award, but I know someone who got it last year. I wanted to witness it this year, but wasn't feeling great after finishing the Marathon. The heat really got to me at the end. But, I will see and cheer on that runner next year!

 

[IMGONNABE40!]

I ran the Wine and Dine (very fun!) and received a medal when I finished the race. I was there with my husband's cousin who also entered the race. She trained hard, but had some knee issues during her training, as well as several tragic family incidents in the month leading up to the race.

When I was just shy of mile 10 I read a text from her indicating that she had to stop due to her knee "popping". Somewhere during my final 5k I decided that I would give her my medal as a way to recognize all she had to overcome to get to the start. I was a bit surprised when I met up with her after I finished because she did indeed have a medal around her neck.

She told me that the sweeping was handled with dignity and respect. I guess I don't really focus on medals so much. I have several sitting in a closet and have never experienced a DNF. My "competition" is me and the goals I have set for myself. Who RD's decide to give medals to is outside my control or concern.

I hope to get to travel with my husband's cousin to a race again, and I know she will feel totally comfortable signing up for another race. What she does with her Wine and Dine medal and what it represents to her is personal to her. She had truthfully reported her race experience on Facebook before I ever reached the finish, so I know she will not try to pass herself off as a finisher.

My medal? It will likely go in my closet with the others......

 

[DisneyRunnerGirl]

I have cute story to share that is the polar opposite of the "I don't want to finish last" spectrum.

Several years ago I was in PT for an injury and my therapist was really fast runner in her early 30s who frequently won local races from 5ks to halfs.

I went in for a PT session the Monday after Thanksgiving and asked the therapist how her hometown Turkey Trot had been on Thursday morning.....

"It was awful - I didn't win! This is the first time I have ever run this race and not won!" I could tell from her tone of voice that she was truly annoyed by this turn of events.

Now at this point I am trying really hard to keep a straight face but sympathy was beyond me so my response was just "oh".

She then told me that her dad was really annoyed with her attitude and told her to get over it before they got in the car to drive home or he was going to make her walk the 10 miles back to the house.

I think I love her Dad

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

I have cute story to share that is the polar opposite of the "I don't want to finish last" spectrum.

Several years ago I was in PT for an injury and my therapist was really fast runner in her early 30s who frequently won local races from 5ks to halfs.

I went in for a PT session the Monday after Thanksgiving and asked the therapist how her hometown Turkey Trot had been on Thursday morning.....

"It was awful - I didn't win! This is the first time I have ever run this race and not won!" I could tell from her tone of voice that she was truly annoyed by this turn of events.

Now at this point I am trying really hard to keep a straight face but sympathy was beyond me so my response was just "oh".

She then told me that her dad was really annoyed with her attitude and told her to get over it before they got in the car to drive home or he was going to make her walk the 10 miles back to the house.

I think I love her Dad

That is too funny! Sometimes we all need a reality check, and she seems to have gotten hers that day, courtesy of a great Dad. I wonder if she won the next year.

 

[BikeFan]

And trust me, I get the self-conscious bit. I'm a fat runner (~225 lbs; 6'4. started running half marys when I weight 250+). I get a lot of looks and comments out on the course, usually because I'm running faster than the skinny people and they can't figure it out. At first I was a little self-conscious about it, but I finally decided to let it go. It helps that I am much faster than anyone expects when they look at me. You should see the looks I get from people when I line up in one of the first corrals. I can practically hear them wondering why I'm there and not in the back "with the rest of the fatties" (yes, I've actually heard that said). Eh. Whatever. Once the gun goes off it's all about what you do on the road. I generally finish minutes ahead of my corralmates. They can eat my dust.

I love this. I've got a relative who's a bigger guy - just under 6 foot, 220 pounds, and very stocky-looking. He's also done an Ironman, and just dropped his PR in the half to under 1:45. You're totally right - once the gun goes off, looking fast does not beat being fast!!

 

[BikeFan]

I think many of you are being really insensitive to those athletes who trained just as hard, if not harder, than you did for a disney race and were swept.

If someone trained just as hard as me, then being swept would not be a concern. I am in no way a natural athlete - I was always picked last in gym class, and I was never a starter on any sports team. I'm not an elite runner by any means, but my times are respectable for my age group. But I train hard, and I train in heat, cold, rain - whatever. I'll only not run outside if it's icy, because I don't want to risk a fall. Luckily, I have a treadmill for those days. Proper training is, and should be, very hard.

 

[BikeFan]

WISH is supposed to be a community of support and encouragement. It makes me so sad that it has apparently evolved into a group that is reserved for the "real" runners.

Maria

Support and encouragement mean different things to different people. To me, it means aiding a person in a positive way in reaching a worthy goal, but most of all, it means doing it honestly. Running halfs and fulls is a worthy goal, but it's a hard goal, and it takes lots of hard work and hard training to get there. There are no short-cuts here.

 

[Quiksilvr]

I love this. I've got a relative who's a bigger guy - just under 6 foot, 220 pounds, and very stocky-looking. He's also done an Ironman, and just dropped his PR in the half to under 1:45. You're totally right - once the gun goes off, looking fast does not beat being fast!!

On a whim, I ran a 5K recently up in my wife's hometown. I did okay for it being a very hilly course (23:00) and finished 4th in my age group. I had a guy come up to me afterwards and say:

"I was completely determined to catch you, because there is no way you should be able to run faster than me. But I couldn't do it."

I thanked him for the backhanded compliment and moved on with my life. It was kinda sweet.

 

[BikeFan]

On a whim, I ran a 5K recently up in my wife's hometown. I did okay for it being a very hilly course (23:00) and finished 4th in my age group. I had a guy come up to me afterwards and say:

"I was completely determined to catch you, because there is no way you should be able to run faster than me. But I couldn't do it."

I thanked him for the backhanded compliment and moved on with my life. It was kinda sweet.

That's a great time for any 5K, especially a hilly one! Congratulations! Are you doing longer events too? I try to mix it up - everything from 5Ks to my first full marathon last weekend. Helps to keep it interesting.

 

[FireDancer]

I think many of you are being really insensitive to those athletes who trained just as hard, if not harder, than you did for a disney race and were swept. Let's be clear that not every person who is swept planned on just running a mile or two and getting the medal anyway. There are folks who work their butts off and are extremely disappointed that they were swept. Do they deserve a medal? Absolutely. These races are more than just the race. They are the journey leading up to them too. And some of those folks who were swept went on the same journey as we all did and trained hard. They deserve the medal and them some for having the courage and the tenacity to keep going and trying even though those balloons were on their tail.

Don't "lose respect" for those who were swept and accepted a medal. Give them the utmost respect and be thankful that you have never been swept.

Do the medals say "finisher" on them? No. All participants absolutely should receive one.

Could there be people who signed up knowing they wouldn't finish but wanted a medal? Sure. Maybe. But does it harm you at all that they have one? No.

OP - sorry for the hijack. I know some of the folks who replied won't look at this post and think of those people that are sad to have been swept after having put so much effort in and realize that they definitely deserve a medal. But I hope your daughter will respect those people who worked their butts off and tried their best. I hope my kids realize that that is the most important thing.

But it isn't a training hard medal or a starter's medal. It is a finisher's medal. I'm sure a lot of people start college and study very hard, even harder than some at the top of the class, but they drop out and don't finish. These people don't get degrees because they studied hard.

I have the utmost respect for anyone that trains to do a race and goes out with the best of intentions. If you don't finish you use it as motivation the next year or at a later race somewhere else to earn you medal. Not finishing a race will never make me look down on someone but taking a medal you didn't earn in the only way you can...by finishing...yeah, I have no respect for those people.

Someday they'll hand out medals with the bibs and goodie bags. Cut down on the congestion on the course.

They might as well at this point. There are many reasons I've lost respect for RunDisney over the years and handing out finisher's medals to people who don't finish is just one of them.

 

[Quiksilvr]

That's a great time for any 5K, especially a hilly one! Congratulations! Are you doing longer events too? I try to mix it up - everything from 5Ks to my first full marathon last weekend. Helps to keep it interesting.

Thanks! Congrats on your first full marathon!

Yes, I do all distances. One of the good things about living in DC is that there are always events going on around here at the various distances.

My sweet spot is really the half marathon distance, I guess (I'm a 1:45-1:50 runner at that distance). I'm signed up for the Disney full marathon in January; I'm hoping to break 4:00 for the first time. Based on my half finishing times I should be able to do it (and should have done it in the past), but for whatever reason it's never worked out. I did a 20-miler last weekend and finished that in 3:00, so I feel like the 4:00 is reachable. We'll see.

 

[FFigawi]

I'm signed up for the Disney full marathon in January; I'm hoping to break 4:00 for the first time. Based on my half finishing times I should be able to do it (and should have done it in the past), but for whatever reason it's never worked out. I did a 20-miler last weekend and finished that in 3:00, so I feel like the 4:00 is reachable. We'll see.

Try doing some of your long runs at marathon pace or marathon pace + 10 seconds. It really teaches you to run hard and fast while tired.

 

[BikeFan]

Thanks! Congrats on your first full marathon!

Yes, I do all distances. One of the good things about living in DC is that there are always events going on around here at the various distances.

My sweet spot is really the half marathon distance, I guess (I'm a 1:45-1:50 runner at that distance). I'm signed up for the Disney full marathon in January; I'm hoping to break 4:00 for the first time. Based on my half finishing times I should be able to do it (and should have done it in the past), but for whatever reason it's never worked out. I did a 20-miler last weekend and finished that in 3:00, so I feel like the 4:00 is reachable. We'll see.

I'm out in NoVa suburbia, so I know how lucky we are to have a ton of local races every weekend.

Thanks for the congrats on the marathon. I did Richmond on the 10th, and it's a great event - not too crowded, not a hard course, and lots of very friendly volunteers making it fun (as fun as a marathon can be!). I'm doing the Goofy in January (my first runDisney event) with my brother, and we're just looking to finish, without worrying about time.

I totally think you've got a sub-4 hr. marathon in you. We have similar paces, with you being slightly faster. My recent PRs are 22:15 for 5K and 1:50 for the half, and I did Richmond in 3:56, so if you're faster in the half, then sub-4 is not a reach at all. I don't know if you can hit that at Disney though, just from what I hear. The flat course is favorable but from the videos I've seen online, the crowding might be an issue slowing you up. That's one of the things I liked about Richmond - even though that race hit a record for racers for the full, thanks to the NYC marathon cancellation, it wasn't crowded past the first 5 miles. After that, it was easy to find space and find a rhythm. Anyway, best of luck hitting sub-4, and best of luck to you at WDW!

 

[sunshine girl]

So this thread moved on from the original topic but I'll weigh in anyway. At my own peril, perhaps! (But seriously, I enjoyed reading this discussion)

I believe the bottom line for Disney is financial profit, and secondly customer/guest service.

At the end of the day, Disney is organizing races to make a profit. Disney happily gives out the medals to the DNF folks as a means of guest recovery - keeping guests happy.

(As far as I know they don't explicitly advertise the practice -- before this thread, I never knew about it. So it's not like a selling point -- "sign up and you're guaranteed a medal" type of thing.)

They likely see zero gain by denying medals to DNF folks. The risk, on the other hand, is larger: if paying customers develop a negative view of Disney or the experience via being denied their medal, they will not return and will not spend more money.

Disney is not willing to risk that people are disenfranchised over the principle of finisher=medal. Giving medals to all who start/try is inexpensive, easy guest recovery.

Personally, I wouldn't want a medal if I hadn't completed the race. I wouldn't even wear the t-shirt. If I failed, I'd be motivated to try harder.

Other big races are not backed by the customer service-focused, vacation behemoth that is Disney. Other races don't have to live up to the magical experience standard the Disney (and runDisney) brand sets for itself. I think those other races can more easily deny medals to DNFs.

Races that follow Disney's lead by giving everyone a medal are perhaps thinking along similar lines, or trying to save time/volunteer work at the end of the race.

The Disney difference is obvious to me in every aspect of the race. As someone who has done a fair amount of running, and other big marathons, I still want to run Disney even though its finisher medal standards are less.

However, I honestly don't care who gets a medal and who doesn't. As long as they're not selling them at the Expo! Haha. I'm just so glad these Disney races exist for me to enjoy!!

 

[DrMomof3]

I will surely regret sharing my opinion but here it goes!

My first race ever was the 2011 Disney World Half Marathon. I signed up about 10 months in advance and started with the Couch to 5k. I was not super consistent with my training but did the best I could. I honestly didn't know enough to seek out local races before race day. I had done a 10 miler in training (I did 99% of all of my training runs on the treadmill). Luckily I combination of ok training and stubbornness got me across the finish line (I think my time for that race was around 2:46 - somewhere in the 2:40's). Since that time I have finished 5 Half Marathons and 1 Full Marathon and I'm currently training for the Goofy.

I, personally, am all about MY OWN accomplishment. This past January I struggled through the full marathon and finish (just under 6 hours!). My husband attempted the Half Marathon and was swept at mile 10 due to an ankle injury. He was sorely undertrained (I was a little annoyed with him for not training more). Yes, he received a medal. I don't think I would have taken one but I think his failure to finish has helped inspired him to become more fit. I was so proud of my Mickey Medal that I have honestly never wasted a single moment thinking about him receiving a medal for a race he didn't finish.

I get very annoyed at people who BRAG about their lack of training going into a runDisney event. For better or for worse I think that many Disney fans think that they can "fake" their way through a Half Marathon or a Full Marathon because, well, it's Disney. I have nothing but respect for people who have never been runners and are willing to get off the couch for the first time and take a chance on a race - whether or not they finish. The hardest part is taking that first step! Heck, I was one of those people!

I guess the question for many people is this: Does giving everyone who starts the race a "finisher" medal diminish the accomplishment of those who actually finish? And I have very mixed feelings about this question. For my own accomplishment, it's me vs. myself (and maybe against the clock as I work hard to get faster). Beyond that, I'm not really sure. I truly understand both sides to the debate but I sometimes feel it's part of the feel-good culture that doesn't actually make anyone feel good. (Nobody can win an elementary school soccer game because half the children will feel badly about losing....) The medal is just a piece of hardware. If I've accomplished something great, I don't need hardware to tell me that (not that I don't love bling). If I've fallen short, no amount of hardware is going to fix that either.

Ultimately what matters to me is what I've been able to achieve in not quite 3 years of running. I'm super proud of the wonderful way running has improved my life forever. Medal or no medal, that's what is really important!

Amanda

 

[Quiksilvr]

Try doing some of your long runs at marathon pace or marathon pace + 10 seconds. It really teaches you to run hard and fast while tired.

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually tried to do that during my 20-miler long run on Sunday, which is why I did it in 3 hours (9:00/m pace). I'm a little concerned about pushing any harder than that during the long runs. Jeff Galloway has put the fear of God into me about getting injured by running too fast on the training runs. According to him, I should be running them at no faster than 10:30/m. I'm not really sure what I should do. I'm planning on doing a 22 and a 24 before Disney. My inclination is to try to do them at 9:00 to 9:15, but I'm concerned about injury. Any thoughts?

 

[Quiksilvr]

I'm out in NoVa suburbia, so I know how lucky we are to have a ton of local races every weekend.

Thanks for the congrats on the marathon. I did Richmond on the 10th, and it's a great event - not too crowded, not a hard course, and lots of very friendly volunteers making it fun (as fun as a marathon can be!). I'm doing the Goofy in January (my first runDisney event) with my brother, and we're just looking to finish, without worrying about time.

I totally think you've got a sub-4 hr. marathon in you. We have similar paces, with you being slightly faster. My recent PRs are 22:15 for 5K and 1:50 for the half, and I did Richmond in 3:56, so if you're faster in the half, then sub-4 is not a reach at all. I don't know if you can hit that at Disney though, just from what I hear. The flat course is favorable but from the videos I've seen online, the crowding might be an issue slowing you up. That's one of the things I liked about Richmond - even though that race hit a record for racers for the full, thanks to the NYC marathon cancellation, it wasn't crowded past the first 5 miles. After that, it was easy to find space and find a rhythm. Anyway, best of luck hitting sub-4, and best of luck to you at WDW!

Thanks! A colleague of mine at work did the Richmond marathon as well; I figured that's what you meant when you said you ran one last weekend. (My colleague is one of those guys who runs sub-3:00; as a matter of fact I think he won his age group in that race.) He said it was a fun race.

I agree that I should be able to hit sub-4:00. During my last full marathon (first one where I was trying to hit that time) I was running into the wind for about 20 miles, and I think that really slowed me up. The course also had a lot of turns, which didn't help my time either. I also had hurt my foot about three weeks before the race and I had to cut back severely on training of any sort just to make sure it was healed enough to do the race. I ended up at about 4:10. I did the first half at 1:55 . . . the second half just really killed me. We'll see how it goes.

 

[BikeFan]

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually tried to do that during my 20-miler long run on Sunday, which is why I did it in 3 hours (9:00/m pace). I'm a little concerned about pushing any harder than that during the long runs. Jeff Galloway has put the fear of God into me about getting injured by running too fast on the training runs. According to him, I should be running them at no faster than 10:30/m. I'm not really sure what I should do. I'm planning on doing a 22 and a 24 before Disney. My inclination is to try to do them at 9:00 to 9:15, but I'm concerned about injury. Any thoughts?

I ran my long runs at ~9:00, so I think your pace is fine. I read all this stuff from serious marathon runners about not doing the long run too fast, because you won't recover, but I think recovery comes a lot quicker for the 4-hour marathon runner than the 3-hour marathoner, because I was never hurting for more than a few hours after any of my long runs. I used the Hal Higdon Intermediate I plan, which had a high of about 40 miles/week, well below the sort of weekly mileage the faster types are doing. Injury was never an issue.

I also didn't do any longer runs than 2-20's. What plan are you using that recommends a 24?

 

[BikeFan]

Thanks! A colleague of mine at work did the Richmond marathon as well; I figured that's what you meant when you said you ran one last weekend. (My colleague is one of those guys who runs sub-3:00; as a matter of fact I think he won his age group in that race.) He said it was a fun race.

I agree that I should be able to hit sub-4:00. During my last full marathon (first one where I was trying to hit that time) I was running into the wind for about 20 miles, and I think that really slowed me up. The course also had a lot of turns, which didn't help my time either. I also had hurt my foot about three weeks before the race and I had to cut back severely on training of any sort just to make sure it was healed enough to do the race. I ended up at about 4:10. I did the first half at 1:55 . . . the second half just really killed me. We'll see how it goes.

I'm really bad about starting out too fast, and flaming out at the end of races, so I made a point of taking my marathon slow - I didn't want to have a death march to the finish. I stuck with the 4:00 pace group for the first 5 miles or so until I got a good rhythm at ~9:00/miles, and then went off on my own. I hit the half at 1:58, and barely lost any time in the second half. The last 6 miles are probably going to force you to really dig deep, so it's important to get to mile 20 without already being in difficulty.

 

[Quiksilvr]

I ran my long runs at ~9:00, so I think your pace is fine. I read all this stuff from serious marathon runners about not doing the long run too fast, because you won't recover, but I think recovery comes a lot quicker for the 4-hour marathon runner than the 3-hour marathoner, because I was never hurting for more than a few hours after any of my long runs. I used the Hal Higdon Intermediate I plan, which had a high of about 40 miles/week, well below the sort of weekly mileage the faster types are doing. Injury was never an issue.

I also didn't do any longer runs than 2-20's. What plan are you using that recommends a 24?

Jeff Galloway recommends going all the way out to 28 for time goal marathon training. I'm not doing that (not enough time left on the schedule). So, I'm doing 24 as a compromise. The reason he suggests the longer runs is to avoid the problem you described re digging deep for the last six miles. I think his philosophy is that if you've done the longer distance in training, the endurance has been built up already, therefore, less need to push the limits.

I agree that I'll definitely need to do a better pacing job during Disney. I am thinking about doing something similar to what you did . . . sticking fairly close to the 4:00 pace group and taking off only if I'm feeling good during the second half. I'm hopeful that the crowding won't be too big of an issue; I've run 20,000+ participant races before and haven't had a hard time navigating.