Questions re: first time 1/2 marathon

[alon86]

Questions from a first timer: I'm planning to run the princess half in Feb. My hotel is booked.

1) I am running a 7 mile race in August (which I have ran before but not in several years). This is the longest race I've ever done, and in the past I've walked a good amount of it. I'm more motivated with my training right now and I think I'll do better than I've done in prior years. Last weekend I ran 6.5 miles (some walking breaks but 12:02 min pace overall) so I fee like I'm in good shape for the 7 mile race in Aug. BUT since there is so much time between Aug - Feb, I was thinking of signing up for a local 1/2 somewhere around Oct/Nov? Then keeping the training going until Feb. Thoughts/feedback about this?

2) I'm definitely going to try to sign up for the Princess Sunrise Yoga, but was thinking of doing the 5k too, as a trial run for the 1/2. Would you recommend this for my first time, or no? Pros/cons? The challenge (10k + 1/2) is appealing, but I don't want to bite off too much my first year. But I'm hoping to do it in 2023!

Thanks!

 

[HangWithMerida]

You’re going to LOVE Disney races! It sounds like you are already putting in the training to get yourself ready to go. I am also planning on the Princess HM and maybe the challenge.
I would say doing a local HM is totally optional. If you are a person that likes having races planned to guide your training, go for it. By coincidence, I am doing a HM in Nov (W&D) but it was kind of a spur of the moment decision. I wouldn’t be running a HM that early in the season if it wasn’t a disney race.
I’m not sure what training plan or plans you are using, but if you aren’t planning on the Galloway method, I can’t recommend the Hal Higdon plans enough. I have used several versions over the years and had a lot of success with those.
As for your second question, again 5k or no is a very personal decision. Disney races are not time-pressure races so doing a couple of races in a weekend is not as hard as truly racing those same distances back to back. They are a lot of fun and I lean towards the more the merrier, but consider the hours. The wake up is really early and some people really don‘t like early. If you are going for the race weekend experience and are less worried about park time, I say go for it. If you want some time for parks during the weekend, just keep in mind whether you can do both races and still spend the time in the parks you want without absolutely wiping yourself out. It’s so tempting to try and do it all on race weekends, but I just can’t. I have to prioritize.

 

[The Expert]

I'll let others with more expertise speak to your first question, but IME if you can get up to 10 miles in training, you can run a half.

I did the Princess HM as my first half marathon in 2017 and did all three races. I had never trained for a run (or really run at all) until about a year before. I started with C25K and worked up from there. You sould be more than ready for the challenge by February if you keep your training up.

Whatever you decide, know that Disney 5Ks and HMs are very different races. The 5Ks tend to be much more crowded, with a lot of casual participants that aren't familiar with race etiquette. If you're going in it for fun and the experience, go for it!

 

[DopeyBadger]

1) I am running a 7 mile race in August (which I have ran before but not in several years). This is the longest race I've ever done, and in the past I've walked a good amount of it. I'm more motivated with my training right now and I think I'll do better than I've done in prior years. Last weekend I ran 6.5 miles (some walking breaks but 12:02 min pace overall) so I fee like I'm in good shape for the 7 mile race in Aug. BUT since there is so much time between Aug - Feb, I was thinking of signing up for a local 1/2 somewhere around Oct/Nov? Then keeping the training going until Feb. Thoughts/feedback about this?

Find a structured training plan and follow it to the best of your ability. Choose a training plan that is close to the volume you're doing now at the start of the plan, and something that has a realistic amount of time spent training late in the plant that you can realistically commit to. If you for example, you know that doing five days per week of training is not going to fit with your life schedule, then don't choose a five days a week plan, and then cut off one day consistently to make it a four day a week plan. The author wrote it with the intent of it being a five day a week plan. There are lots of free available plans out there such as the Galloway and Higdon. Be sure to read the instructions to make sure the plan is appropriate for you and that you know how to execute the plan as written by the author. There are also plenty of plans available in books and on the internet from reputable sources (Fitzgerald, Hansons, Daniels, McMillan for examples).

If you're like most of us when we first started out or first started doing structured training, you're likely currently training too fast. It's not a guarantee, but it's extremely common. So be sure to use a calculator connected to your plan, or from another source (like Galloway, Hansons, Daniels, or McMillan) to set appropriate relative fitness level training paces. Don't use a "I want to run this pace/goal time at the end of the plan". Instead use a recent race result to determine appropriate pacing. So not a goal, but current fitness. If you haven't done anything recently, then you can consider doing either a mile time trial or an 800m time trial. The Galloway plans on runDisney have a good small section on using that data. Alternatively, you can use your 7 mile race in August, although that's an unusual distance and may give some of the calculators fits. But as an example, my mile time is 5:42, my HM PR is 6:42 pace, my M PR is 7:22 pace, and yet my average weekly training pace is usually around 8:00-8:30 min/mile. So I, on average, train far slower than I could run a marathon. It seems counterintuitive to train slow, but it works (and others can attest to this as well).

Lastly, it's important to have ebb and flow to your training plan. So that comes with peaks and valleys in the training volume over training cycles. This allows the body to progressively build and increase in capabilities. If you try and string together plans with ever increasing volume without an appropriately lengthed down swing in volume, then you're likely to see burn-out/fatigue before you can reach your next "A" race. So you've got about 26-30 weeks between the August race and Princess Weekend. So ideally this is going to be two different plans. Since Princess Weekend is the "A" race, then use the length of the plan for Princess to count backwards to see how much time is remaining. If it's 18 weeks, then that leaves 12 weeks. So consider a short 11 week structured training plan and aim for another "A" race sometime around then (end of October/beginning of November). If you do a HM, then consider taking at least a week off before starting the Princess plan to allow some needed recovery and rejuvenation.

 

[alon86]

Find a structured training plan and follow it to the best of your ability. Choose a training plan that is close to the volume you're doing now at the start of the plan, and something that has a realistic amount of time spent training late in the plant that you can realistically commit to. If you for example, you know that doing five days per week of training is not going to fit with your life schedule, then don't choose a five days a week plan, and then cut off one day consistently to make it a four day a week plan. The author wrote it with the intent of it being a five day a week plan. There are lots of free available plans out there such as the Galloway and Higdon. Be sure to read the instructions to make sure the plan is appropriate for you and that you know how to execute the plan as written by the author. There are also plenty of plans available in books and on the internet from reputable sources (Fitzgerald, Hansons, Daniels, McMillan for examples).

If you're like most of us when we first started out or first started doing structured training, you're likely currently training too fast. It's not a guarantee, but it's extremely common. So be sure to use a calculator connected to your plan, or from another source (like Galloway, Hansons, Daniels, or McMillan) to set appropriate relative fitness level training paces. Don't use a "I want to run this pace/goal time at the end of the plan". Instead use a recent race result to determine appropriate pacing. So not a goal, but current fitness. If you haven't done anything recently, then you can consider doing either a mile time trial or an 800m time trial. The Galloway plans on runDisney have a good small section on using that data. Alternatively, you can use your 7 mile race in August, although that's an unusual distance and may give some of the calculators fits. But as an example, my mile time is 5:42, my HM PR is 6:42 pace, my M PR is 7:22 pace, and yet my average weekly training pace is usually around 8:00-8:30 min/mile. So I, on average, train far slower than I could run a marathon. It seems counterintuitive to train slow, but it works (and others can attest to this as well).

Lastly, it's important to have ebb and flow to your training plan. So that comes with peaks and valleys in the training volume over training cycles. This allows the body to progressively build and increase in capabilities. If you try and string together plans with ever increasing volume without an appropriately lengthed down swing in volume, then you're likely to see burn-out/fatigue before you can reach your next "A" race. So you've got about 26-30 weeks between the August race and Princess Weekend. So ideally this is going to be two different plans. Since Princess Weekend is the "A" race, then use the length of the plan for Princess to count backwards to see how much time is remaining. If it's 18 weeks, then that leaves 12 weeks. So consider a short 11 week structured training plan and aim for another "A" race sometime around then (end of October/beginning of November). If you do a HM, then consider taking at least a week off before starting the Princess plan to allow some needed recovery and rejuvenation.

Super helpful - thank you! I have been doing the "Run with Hal" app, and originally set the training as if the August race is a 15k (it's actually a 11.5k), then my plan was to reset it for the PHM in Feb. Today I reset the training plan for a HM in October, which is 12 weeks away. I like your idea of taking a week off and then setting the training plan again for the PHM in Feb. which will be 18-19 weeks. I don't have a recent race result for my time - I'm just hoping to do the 7 mile race under 12:00/mile and see what happens. I'm less concerned about speed and PRs and right now just focused on keeping a running pace and eliminating the walking breaks as much as I can!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Last weekend I ran 6.5 miles (some walking breaks but 12:02 min pace overall) so I fee like I'm in good shape for the 7 mile race in Aug.

I'm just hoping to do the 7 mile race under 12:00/mile and see what happens.

So if your goal pace is a 12 min/mile and if you find it at all challenging, then you're probably training too quick. I'm guessing the recent 6.5 mile run was your long run on the weekend, right? Does the "Run with Hal" app give you suggested pacing based on anything? Generally his instructions on the internet based plans are looser and not based on numbers. He tends to be more open and use language like "conversational pace" and such (link). But I've found in coaching others that the subjective language like that tends to mean runners self-select paces that are far too quick in training to be beneficial. You may find it even easier to eliminate walking breaks by doing say a 13:00 or 14:00 min/mile running pace in training instead of a 12:00 min/mile pace (if that's anywhere close to a fitness level 7 mile race for you). Running will be easier during training, reduce chances of injury due to training too fast, and you'll get faster over time (even though that isn't a current goal). You might worry that not doing a 12:00 min/mile pace on your weekend long runs won't properly prepare you to be able to run a sub-12 during your race, but you'd be surprised what happens when you slow down. I totally get where you're coming from. Just helping to make sure you're not racing your training runs.

 

[alon86]

So if your goal pace is a 12 min/mile and if you find it at all challenging, then you're probably training too quick. I'm guessing the recent 6.5 mile run was your long run on the weekend, right? Does the "Run with Hal" app give you suggested pacing based on anything? Generally his instructions on the internet based plans are looser and not based on numbers. He tends to be more open and use language like "conversational pace" and such (link). But I've found in coaching others that the subjective language like that tends to mean runners self-select paces that are far too quick in training to be beneficial. You may find it even easier to eliminate walking breaks by doing say a 13:00 or 14:00 min/mile running pace in training instead of a 12:00 min/mile pace (if that's anywhere close to a fitness level 7 mile race for you). Running will be easier during training, reduce chances of injury due to training too fast, and you'll get faster over time (even though that isn't a current goal). You might worry that not doing a 12:00 min/mile pace on your weekend long runs won't properly prepare you to be able to run a sub-12 during your race, but you'd be surprised what happens when you slow down. I totally get where you're coming from. Just helping to make sure you're not racing your training runs.

This is super helpful, thank you. The Run with Hal app has me at 12:38 pace on all runs in the next 10 days (I can't see pace any farther than that) but I have been running closer to 11:30-11:50 on most runs. It's so counterintuitive to run slower but I'll do it!

 

[HangWithMerida]

This is super helpful, thank you. The Run with Hal app has me at 12:38 pace on all runs in the next 10 days (I can't see pace any farther than that) but I have been running closer to 11:30-11:50 on most runs. It's so counterintuitive to run slower but I'll do it!

Sounds like Hal is trying to get you to slow down too! So many runners battle this. I did too starting out, but I’ll second @DopeyBadger regarding slowing down. When the time comes, you‘ll have more speed than you realize and you’re less likely to get injured or completely burned out while training in the meantime. My paces are minutes slower than his, but follow the same pattern.

 

[Kitty-chan]

2) I'm definitely going to try to sign up for the Princess Sunrise Yoga, but was thinking of doing the 5k too, as a trial run for the 1/2. Would you recommend this for my first time, or no? Pros/cons? The challenge (10k + 1/2) is appealing, but I don't want to bite off too much my first year. But I'm hoping to do it in 2023!

Thanks!

Pro: Two Disney races in one weekend! Twice the medals, twice the magic, etc.

Con: How do you feel about being in the corrals at around 4am two days in one weekend?

I did the Star Wars 5k and 10k in 2019. It was a lot of fun, but getting up in time to be on the bus at around 3:15am was a BIT MUCH. No regrets though!!

 

[camaker]

Pro: Two Disney races in one weekend! Twice the medals, twice the magic, etc.

Con: How do you feel about being in the corrals at around 4am two days in one weekend?

I did the Star Wars 5k and 10k in 2019. It was a lot of fun, but getting up in time to be on the bus at around 3:15am was a BIT MUCH. No regrets though!!

Two early days in one weekend? Come join us for the Dopey four-in-a-row!

 

[HangWithMerida]

Yes, 2 early days in a row is a challenge. Race mornings are not the sort of early most people do on a regular basis, especially when you factor in time zone differences that many people are dealing with. No need to Dopey gatekeep early mornings. We know, we know, Dopey is the most!

 

[Livelovedance]

If it were me, I'd choose the Fairy Tale Challenge over the 5K + the half marathon. Disney races are unlike any other that I've experienced, and I think any option is a good one if it means you get to run in Disney. For me, I just think the 5K is too short. My first runDisney weekend I did the Princess 5K and 10K. I had done plenty of 5K races at home, but I spent that entire race nervous about finishing on time (not realizing that race is more laid back!). I did the 10K the following day and had a blast!

I've done all three since then and my favorites are always the 10K and half. The early wake ups can definitely be tough, but I feel like the excitement in the moment makes it a little easier. The longer distance makes the early wakeup a little more worth it to me because you get more out of the experience overall. Also, if medals are your thing and you're trained enough to do a 10K and a half marathon back to back, you'll get a third challenge medal out of it if you complete both!

Good luck with your decision!

 

[HangWithMerida]

If it were me, I'd choose the Fairy Tale Challenge over the 5K + the half marathon... Also, if medals are your thing and you're trained enough to do a 10K and a half marathon back to back, you'll get a third challenge medal out of it if you complete both!

Good luck with your decision!

Definitely something to consider if you are already thinking about running 2 of the 3 races! Who doesn’t love more bling?!

 

[The Expert]

Yes, 2 early days in a row is a challenge. Race mornings are not the sort of early most people do on a regular basis, especially when you factor in time zone differences that many people are dealing with. No need to Dopey gatekeep early mornings. We know, we know, Dopey is the most!

The time zone thing is REAL for those of us coming from the west. I'm on Mountain time, so I've started taking a redeye flight in for the trips where I'm focused on races. It worked great for MW 2020. I got enough rest to function for the day and hit the expo, but was well and ready to go to sleep by about 8pm. It also helps to shift your meals a bit. We were eating dinner around 5pm. And staying DVC, we have breakfast and snack items in the room to have pre-race and any time the urge strikes.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

BUT since there is so much time between Aug - Feb, I was thinking of signing up for a local 1/2 somewhere around Oct/Nov?

You've already received excellent advice about training. I'll share my experience from my first half marathon in the hopes that it helps you.

To begin with, my first race was run for the sole purpose of earning that medal. Running was the thing I had to put up with in order to earn the medal. In hindsight this was a terrible approach. It became way too easy to run "tomorrow" and before long tomorrow had become 3 weeks later. I managed to salvage my plan by skipping all the easy weekend runs and just doing long runs every weekend. Consequently, I came to hate running. Again, my mental motivation was not set properly.

On race day itself, I was full of fear. That's right, fear. I had convinced myself I was either going to miraculously cross that finish line or fail spectacularly. Even though I had gotten all the long runs in, I still had no real merited confidence. I had convinced myself that my training was somehow wrong. And that led to near disastrous results on race day. Fear and adrenaline caused me to start way too fast and not even half a mile in, I knew something was very, very wrong. It felt like I had shin splints. I realized that I needed to slow down. And so I decided to slow down to a pain free, but still effort required pace. I would either slog my way to the finish line or get swept.

Eventually, nearly 3 hours later, I finished and was never in any danger of being swept.

So what could I have done better? Honestly, I look back and think that I should have heeded the advice of others to run a local race first. Why? Because I would have made all of those mistakes at a non goal race. And I would have gained the confidence I needed at a non goal race. Then during my goal race, I could have started slow and then picked up the pace once I had my legs under me. Each time I approach a goal race, I remind myself that I need to start slow and let the race come to me. Every time I do that I have a much more enjoyable race and it usually results in either a faster time and/or more fun.

As far as the Fairy Tale Challenge, I used to believe that races on two consecutive days would destroy my legs for the longest distance. When Disneyland had a Star Wars race challenge, I wanted that so much that I decided to test myself. And once again in a strange way, I found that multi race weekends are actually better for me. Speaking for myself, a multi race weekend helps me work through 98% of my nervous race energy during the shorter race(s). And once I'm at the challenge race, I'm focused and ready. I personally find the 10K to be a great distance. It's long enough to test you, yet also short enough to not completely tire you out and wipe out the morning. With a well thought out plan that includes enough back to back training runs, your body will already know how to handle back to back longer runs and how to properly recover from them so you're good to go the next day.

 

[Kazrak]

As far as the Fairy Tale Challenge, I used to believe that races on two consecutive days would destroy my legs for the longest distance. When Disneyland had a Star Wars race challenge, I wanted that so much that I decided to test myself. And once again in a strange way, I found that multi race weekends are actually better for me. Speaking for myself, a multi race weekend helps me work through 98% of my nervous race energy during the shorter race(s). And once I'm at the challenge race, I'm focused and ready. I personally find the 10K to be a great distance. It's long enough to test you, yet also short enough to not completely tire you out and wipe out the morning. With a well thought out plan that includes enough back to back training runs, your body will already know how to handle back to back longer runs and how to properly recover from them so you're good to go the next day.

Both times I've done the two-race challenges, I've found that the 10k was more of a struggle than the half. The 10k was a lot of 'don't push too hard, save yourself for the half tomorrow, oh god I have an entire half marathon tomorrow why am I doing this' and the half was 'woohoo, half marathon baby, we're golden'.

Might just be me.

 

[alon86]

Both times I've done the two-race challenges, I've found that the 10k was more of a struggle than the half. The 10k was a lot of 'don't push too hard, save yourself for the half tomorrow, oh god I have an entire half marathon tomorrow why am I doing this' and the half was 'woohoo, half marathon baby, we're golden'.

Might just be me.

I fear this would be me too!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

One advantage of multi race challenges when properly trained is that you should feel stronger heading into the longest run unless you overdo a shorter run or get injured.

I caught a pretty nasty chest cold roughly 7 days before I had to leave for Disney World to run my first Dopey in 2019. Very little energy for about 5 days and on departure day, I was still fighting off the last effects of it. I couldn't talk for long periods of time without a coughing fit. I had some trepidation about being ready for the marathon because of that. I gave myself permission to skip and/or allow myself to be swept from the 5K and/or 10K if necessary to preserve a shot at Goofy. I also vowed to take both the shorter distances very, very slowly just in case. What I found was that I felt okay during the 5K and even stronger during the 10K. Around mile 12 of the half, I felt very confident about finishing the marathon the next day because I had never felt so strong at the end of a half marathon in my life before. I knew I had a lot more miles in me.

 

[The Expert]

One advantage of multi race challenges when properly trained is that you should feel stronger heading into the longest run unless you overdo a shorter run or get injured.

I caught a pretty nasty chest cold roughly 7 days before I had to leave for Disney World to run my first Dopey in 2019. Very little energy for about 5 days and on departure day, I was still fighting off the last effects of it. I couldn't talk for long periods of time without a coughing fit. I had some trepidation about being ready for the marathon because of that. I gave myself permission to skip and/or allow myself to be swept from the 5K and/or 10K if necessary to preserve a shot at Goofy. I also vowed to take both the shorter distances very, very slowly just in case. What I found was that I felt okay during the 5K and even stronger during the 10K. Around mile 12 of the half, I felt very confident about finishing the marathon the next day because I had never felt so strong at the end of a half marathon in my life before. I knew I had a lot more miles in me.

Hold on, are you saying that if you sign up for Dopey, you also get the Goofy shirt and medal?! I feel like an idiot that this never actually occurred to me before!

Also I know this was NOT the point of your post. Great advice!

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hold on, are you saying that if you sign up for Dopey, you also get the Goofy shirt and medal?! I feel like an idiot that this never actually occurred to me before!

6 medals = 4 individual races + Dopey medal + Goofy medal