Questions from Prospective Resale Buyer

[matt_in_nh]

Hi, I have been looking over the ROFR threads and doing some spreadsheet analysis paralysis to try to narrow down where I want to buy. I know the mantra (buy where you want) but honestly, I think I like the idea of sleep around points more than I want to stay at this resort only every year. I also think over time, I may settle at a preferred resort. Right now, I have a vacation booked next year with a split stay at AKL and SSR. I have some questions

1. Dues are paid in December. Is that also true when borrowing points from the next year or do those become payable immediately if you borrow?
2. I am trying to figure out how to value a stripped contract vs contract with banked points and ones with current use year. If the contract is stripped, when are the dues paid and by whom? If the contract is loaded with banked points, I assume some of those are paid, how to value those? I can see different scenarios. I dont want to pay back an owner for dues for points that need to be used in the next 2 months for example. Is there a rule of thumb people use to balance the points currently available?
3. I am probably looking at 200 points-ish with stays in either Studios or one bedrooms. One bedroom stays would be limited to AKL, SSR, BWV or BLT. What are the chances of getting one bedrooms in those resorts 7 months out? I assume SSR no problem and I assume AKL value 1 bedrooms would be a no go. What about BW and AKL standard, BLT, can I grab those at 7 months?
4. My spreadsheet right now looks at overall cost of ownership with the amount of years on the contract left. I have a ranking for resale value and trying to figure out how to factor that in. If you consider resale, then VGF is very attractive but has a high initial outlay. But then using those points to stay at SSR or BWV seems silly.
5. The cheapest way to get points is SSR (not surprising) but there are lots of SSR contract for sale and people don't seem to like the resort. I typically rent a car and like it that way so I can park by my room, I like that. However, I don't like the volume of contracts for sale, it seems getting out might be more challenging than say VGF. But the low initial cost and low dues makes SSR attractive. I like AKL because of the the unique setting and cheaper points per night. Can one typically grab a 1bed value at 11 months?

Thanks for reading, I value all of your input. This board is a great resource. If you have other things I should be considering please throw that out there.

 

[Cfabar1]

Hi, I have been looking over the ROFR threads and doing some spreadsheet analysis paralysis to try to narrow down where I want to buy. I know the mantra (buy where you want) but honestly, I think I like the idea of sleep around points more than I want to stay at this resort only every year. I also think over time, I may settle at a preferred resort. Right now, I have a vacation booked next year with a split stay at AKL and SSR. I have some questions

1. Dues are paid in December. Is that also true when borrowing points from the next year or do those become payable immediately if you borrow?

Dues are not paid immediately when you borrow. dues can be paid monthly or annually.

2. I am trying to figure out how to value a stripped contract vs contract with banked points and ones with current use year. If the contract is stripped, when are the dues paid and by whom? If the contract is loaded with banked points, I assume some of those are paid, how to value those? I can see different scenarios. I dont want to pay back an owner for dues for points that need to be used in the next 2 months for example. Is there a rule of thumb people use to balance the points currently available?

I tend to just get out the calculator and see how much am I paying per year of the contract. Some people would say $+10 for banked and -$10 for stripped, or some other number along those lines. Given the constant changing nature of the resale market, I don't have a hard and fast rule like that. Also, depending on how the use year falls, my travel availability, etc. it might be nice to know there are banked points, but in practicality they might be useless, or more likely, not offer me the value I would be interested in paying a premium.

3. I am probably looking at 200 points-ish with stays in either Studios or one bedrooms. One bedroom stays would be limited to AKL, SSR, BWV or BLT. What are the chances of getting one bedrooms in those resorts 7 months out? I assume SSR no problem and I assume AKL value 1 bedrooms would be a no go. What about BW and AKL standard, BLT, can I grab those at 7 months?

BW standard is tough at 7 months. right now due to renovations BW is extremely tough in general.
AKL standard is easier, because the value rooms are hard to get. 1 BR is the least popular room type.
BLT if you're flexible on view type is easy at 7 months.
SSR is very easy to book, you are right.

4. My spreadsheet right now looks at overall cost of ownership with the amount of years on the contract left. I have a ranking for resale value and trying to figure out how to factor that in. If you consider resale, then VGF is very attractive but has a high initial outlay. But then using those points to stay at SSR or BWV seems silly.

I kind of disagree - the dues are lower at both SSR and BWV, though, admittedly buying VGF to stay at SSR makes a lot more sense than buying VGF to stay at BWV (because it is so hard to get in there IME.). Also, right now, in most instances VGF direct is cheaper than VGF resale.

5. The cheapest way to get points is SSR (not surprising) but there are lots of SSR contract for sale and people don't seem to like the resort. I typically rent a car and like it that way so I can park by my room, I like that. However, I don't like the volume of contracts for sale, it seems getting out might be more challenging than say VGF. But the low initial cost and low dues makes SSR attractive. I like AKL because of the the unique setting and cheaper points per night. Can one typically grab a 1bed value at 11 months?

For me, the way we go to WDW, SSR is not the right resort for me. We go one or two nights to visit the parks. We stop in 1 or 2 parks per visit, and then come back later. We don't come in for 7 days to enjoy a full vacation lifestyle. So, SSR just isn't for us - BC, BW, Monorail Resorts, and to some extent AK are the right ones for us.

I don't own at AKL, so I can't speak to that. A lot of it depends what time of the year, I'm sure. We are staying in December for 1 or 2 nights in an AKL 1 Bed Value, and funnily enough, at time of booking, it was the ONLY room category available at all of WDW. That is not the norm though.

Thanks for reading, I value all of your input. This board is a great resource. If you have other things I should be considering please throw that out there.

My last piece of advice is this. Owning DVC is not only a logical decision, but an incredibly emotional one as well. I would visit the properties, and figure out which one is the one you like the most, so you get that home resort booking advantage. Admittedly for 1 BRs that doesn't matter as much. If, (especially) it is Boardwalk, and you can stomach the idea of a 2042 expiration date, then I would recommend buying there. Your other resorts will be easy to book in comparison to Boardwalk.

 

[eticketplease]

If the contract is stripped, when are the dues paid and by whom?

You will owe the dues to Disney by January 15th for the year. If you are from the USA then you can set it up for monthly payments instead of a lump sum. A lot of stripped contracts will have terms that the seller will pay dues for those stripped points but really that is just a credit towards your purchase and you are responsible for the dues.

 

[DaveNan]

2. I am trying to figure out how to value a stripped contract vs contract with banked points and ones with current use year. If the contract is stripped, when are the dues paid and by whom? If the contract is loaded with banked points, I assume some of those are paid, how to value those? I can see different scenarios. I dont want to pay back an owner for dues for points that need to be used in the next 2 months for example. Is there a rule of thumb people use to balance the points currently available?

As stated, people use $8 to $10 for each point to add or subtract to the total cost. Typically, the person who uses the points pays the MF on the points. If a contract is loaded, the buyer typically gets the MF associated with those points added to the contract at closing. If points are missing, the buyer gets credited at closing. You can always ask for different terms in your offer. The contract will define the terms. If you put a rental market value of $16-$18 and use $8 for the MF, that leaves you with the $8-$10 value. Having a need for the points or not wanting to rent can impact your interests. The resale market tends to actually put a lower value on missing or extra points. So, a contract with 100% banked points is worth $8-$10 more than one with no banked or borrowed points and 100% of current UY. A contract with 50% banked points is worth $4-$5 more.

3. I am probably looking at 200 points-ish with stays in either Studios or one bedrooms. One bedroom stays would be limited to AKL, SSR, BWV or BLT. What are the chances of getting one bedrooms in those resorts 7 months out? I assume SSR no problem and I assume AKL value 1 bedrooms would be a no go. What about BW and AKL standard, BLT, can I grab those at 7 months?

7 month availability is a very complicated topic. In general, the monorail and epcot resorts are limited compared to the others. Time of the year matters. Oct 1 through Jan 8 and holiday weeks are much more difficult to book all categories. Studios are tough than 1BR. You can look at diffent sources to get actual room counts. Categories with very few rooms will be tough (BWV std and bwv, BLT std and park, AKV club and val). After that, DVC owners look to use as few as possible points. AKV STD will be gone before SAV, GFV and PVB STD will be gone before Lake..... In general, during peak times for studio only count on SSR pref, OKW, and maybe AKV SAV (Kidani) for studios at 7 months. For 1BR, you can add the lower point categories and the high point categories might be doable at exactly 7 months at the other resorts. As far as none peak times, if you are flexible, you can get 1BR and even score studios. You need to be on it at 7 months and maybe flexible with your days and which specific resort. You will likely be in the high point views (excluding park). I have used my SSR points at BLT, VGF, PVB, RIV, BWV, BCV, VGC, AUL, HHI, and VB.... so it can be done. You just need to be flexible.

5. The cheapest way to get points is SSR (not surprising) but there are lots of SSR contract for sale and people don't seem to like the resort. I typically rent a car and like it that way so I can park by my room, I like that. However, I don't like the volume of contracts for sale, it seems getting out might be more challenging than say VGF. But the low initial cost and low dues makes SSR attractive. I like AKL because of the the unique setting and cheaper points per night. Can one typically grab a 1bed value at 11 months?

SSR is huge. There are just more points to be resold. SSR is also one of the least popular (the least) resorts among resale buyers. Many people feel it is outside the bubble and do not like the apartment/garden style of the resort. They prefer a large lobby with a large, connected building. SSR and OKW can feel like 2000's era Florida themed apartment buildings, not an escape to a different location or time. Additionally, have a bus loop feels like the value and moderate resorts, compared to the luxury category. That said..... The rooms are every bit as nice, having walking access to DS, and being able to park close to room for grocery/luggage drop off, are all nice. Finally, if you are driving to the parks, you are close to your car and you don't care about the bus loop. So, while many people have no interest in SSR, others actually prefer it. Just know the warts..... As far as the AKV value.... even 1BR are tough. It can be done, but look read up on "walking" and getting nights after the walkers drop them on the threads. You can't just log on at 11 months and be guaranteed of availability. During peak times (and low point seasons), the value 1BR are not typically available. You need to look for available nights before you reservation window and "walk" it to the exact nights you want.

 

[Sandisw]

Certainly sounds like you could jump into the market with SAPs to start because you really don't have that one "favorite" resort that you want to be at for the trips.

SSR is a great choice and we have our SAP's there. But, we did sell 200 of them last year to add on more at VGF, because we wanted home resort advantage there. We had had no problem getting the 1 bedrooms at 7 months with our SSR points, but the addition of all those resort studios gave us pause and knew that would change....sure enough, this year, what we normally would have gotten, for some of our trips, would not have happened had we not already had the rooms.

Near park resorts will always command more on the resale market than the big resorts like SSR....but, I am one who says don't buy for resale value and assume selling will be less than you paid...we used a 50% reduction when we bought just to see how long we'd need to own to break even.

I would not buy expecting SV rooms at BLT and BWV, even in 1 bedrooms. Use the charts from LV and PV so that if SV is there, again, bonus way to save points.

JMO, but I believe the best way to calculate things is to compare what you would be spending for DVC against what you are currently spending for your visits to WDW and decide, if it makes sense to own vs. continue paying cash (or renting if you are a renter) and how long you'd have to own to feel you made the right decision.

ETA: The biggest thing is all these calculations go out the window for many DVC owners because owning causes you to change your travel habits, and you end up adding on points down the line!

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Hi, I have been looking over the ROFR threads and doing some spreadsheet analysis paralysis to try to narrow down where I want to buy. I know the mantra (buy where you want) but honestly, I think I like the idea of sleep around points more than I want to stay at this resort only every year. I also think over time, I may settle at a preferred resort. Right now, I have a vacation booked next year with a split stay at AKL and SSR. I have some questions

1. Dues are paid in December. Is that also true when borrowing points from the next year or do those become payable immediately if you borrow?
2. I am trying to figure out how to value a stripped contract vs contract with banked points and ones with current use year. If the contract is stripped, when are the dues paid and by whom? If the contract is loaded with banked points, I assume some of those are paid, how to value those? I can see different scenarios. I dont want to pay back an owner for dues for points that need to be used in the next 2 months for example. Is there a rule of thumb people use to balance the points currently available?
3. I am probably looking at 200 points-ish with stays in either Studios or one bedrooms. One bedroom stays would be limited to AKL, SSR, BWV or BLT. What are the chances of getting one bedrooms in those resorts 7 months out? I assume SSR no problem and I assume AKL value 1 bedrooms would be a no go. What about BW and AKL standard, BLT, can I grab those at 7 months?
4. My spreadsheet right now looks at overall cost of ownership with the amount of years on the contract left. I have a ranking for resale value and trying to figure out how to factor that in. If you consider resale, then VGF is very attractive but has a high initial outlay. But then using those points to stay at SSR or BWV seems silly.
5. The cheapest way to get points is SSR (not surprising) but there are lots of SSR contract for sale and people don't seem to like the resort. I typically rent a car and like it that way so I can park by my room, I like that. However, I don't like the volume of contracts for sale, it seems getting out might be more challenging than say VGF. But the low initial cost and low dues makes SSR attractive. I like AKL because of the the unique setting and cheaper points per night. Can one typically grab a 1bed value at 11 months?

Thanks for reading, I value all of your input. This board is a great resource. If you have other things I should be considering please throw that out there.

1) Borrowing points is based on your use year and has nothing to do with calendar years. Your points are good for stays from the first of the month of your use year until the last day of the month 12 months later. You can book that stay up to 11 months earlier, regardless of whether you have the points at the time of booking, as long as you will have them at the time of the stay. You can borrow points from the next use year at that time if needed.

2) the market values a years points in a contract for sale at around $7-$9. They’re worth significantly more than that ($14-$16 is a good rule of thumb), so look for contracts with points, they provide better values.

3)

AKL values will basically never be available for trade, ever, studio or 1BR. If you decide to buy there, you should know that they will rarely be available even to owners, they’re extremely popular and there’s very few. They also only sleep 4.

SSR preferred and standard 1 bedrooms as well as AKV Savannah and Standard basically always will be, except perhaps in December. The corresponding studios at those resorts will generally be available except during Run Disney events and parts of the fall, and again December.

BWV Pool 1 bedrooms are achievable much of the year, except for parts of fall and most of December. Boardwalk studios of any view and standard 1 BRs are much harder to book at 7 months almost any time of year, except perhaps the hottest part of summer. The standard views are, again, very popular with owners due to their cheap point charts.

BLT same thing - if you’re looking for standard view as a non-owner, don’t expect it. If you’re ok with lake view, that will often (but again not always) be available.

So your least expensive baseline option is to own at SSR and plan to use those points for standard rooms at either SSR or AKV, which you’ll generally be able to trade to, and if you luck into anything else, bully for you.

4) Make sure you’re thinking about time and money and how they relate to each other. If you straight line costs, SSR and VGF will have similar buy in costs. If you assume even just 1% annual returns on the money you wouldn’t spend up front if you paid cash for the rooms instead of buying in, SSR takes a significant lead over VGF, and that grows as you increase your likely savings rate. If you ever want to travel in December, especially early December, you’ll be glad you own at a resort you want to (or have enough points to) stay at, as you will almost certainly be stuck at your home resort.

5) SSR has the most points. The people who love it LOVE it. If it was half the size, it would probably be much more popular. But the supply exceeds the demand without a discounted price. It has a lot going for it: it’s the only resort with 3 splash pads, one of only 2 with 2 feature pools (AKL being the other), it has 3 QS restaurants (if you include the golf courses which is on the back side of the main SSR building) plus another pool bar, it’s quiet and peaceful, and everyone actually loves the most recent room renovation, which is rare for a Disney resort - usually room renovations make half the owners mad. I wouldn’t discount it. And again, if you don’t like it, you’ll basically always be able to use the points at AKV except perhaps sometimes in December - just not on value rooms, which again, are quite hard to grab even at 11 months.

Anyways, you sound exactly like a person who should buy SSR to me. That’s my read.

 

[Dyefrog]

The board's sponsor has done some of the heavy lifting for you regarding spreadsheet analysis based on value.

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/best-economical-dvc-resorts-to-purchase-spring-2023/

I too can get caught up in squeezing every dollar for all it's worth but over time have realized, there's a compromise that can result in a better experience. I bought direct at VGF for the blue card and have 3 of my children on the deed. It made sense at the time. I don't dislike VGF and most of my family love it there. However, as I look to the future and how my family with 3 generations becoming more involved and planning trips at least once a year, my options were compromised.

On a related thread, I posted asking advice for my situation and decided to buy resale at Boardwalk. It checks most of the boxes but the bonus is the point chart. Compared to VGF, first week of December '24, for a 2 bedroom has Boardwalk at 237 points and VGF at 387 points. The expiration of the resort is not insignificant, but current value, factoring in the purchase price of ~$109pp (Fidelity-no link, competes with sponsor) vs. ~$150 gives a much better bang for the buck. But as you may already know, Boardwalk is tough to book at 7 months so in my case I have to buy there.
My point though is to also consider where you intend to stay the majority of the time and determine:

1. Do I need to own there?
2. What will the total cost be, not just contract price.
   • Maintenance​
   • Point chart​

Not to mention convenience depending on how you use the resort. How much do the parks factor into it for transportation, rope drops, walk to resort, dining options, etc.

In my scenario, I'm expecting to sell my contracts within the last 10-12 years of contract so expiration date has very little to do with my reasoning.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

The board's sponsor has done some of the heavy lifting for you regarding spreadsheet analysis based on value.

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/best-economical-dvc-resorts-to-purchase-spring-2023/

They have, but this is the analysis that a ninth grader would do. I’d suggest there are better analysis that take into account all factors. CPAs, Financial planners, and business finance executives have all posted their analysis on these boards or elsewhere with much more rigorous methodology.

If nothing else, Mousesavers has one that’s a decent starting point, as well as quite frankly probably the best discussion of DVC value on the internet.


https://www.mousesavers.com/other-disney-vacations/disney-vacation-club/

 

[matt_in_nh]

I kind of disagree - the dues are lower at both SSR and BWV, though, admittedly buying VGF to stay at SSR makes a lot more sense than buying VGF to stay at BWV (because it is so hard to get in there IME.). Also, right now, in most instances VGF direct is cheaper than VGF resale.

What I meant is the cost of VGF is much higher than SSR so if you want to stay at SSR, just buy there. I like the longterm value of VGF but want to spend time at different resorts. I agree, you can always get SSR so it does not matter if you own there if you want to go once or twice.

My last piece of advice is this. Owning DVC is not only a logical decision, but an incredibly emotional one as well. I would visit the properties, and figure out which one is the one you like the most, so you get that home resort booking advantage. Admittedly for 1 BRs that doesn't matter as much. If, (especially) it is Boardwalk, and you can stomach the idea of a 2042 expiration date, then I would recommend buying there. Your other resorts will be easy to book in comparison to Boardwalk.

Agreed, I am considering coming for a couple days just to check them out.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[matt_in_nh]

You can look at diffent sources to get actual room counts.

What sources?

ou will likely be in the high point views (excluding park). I have used my SSR points at BLT, VGF, PVB, RIV, BWV, BCV, VGC, AUL, HHI, and VB.... so it can be done. You just need to be flexible.

I have read this a lot. For me, it comes down to trade offs.....I am willing to trade off cost for the inconvenience of a wait list or shifting days or a split stay.

ected building. SSR and OKW can feel like 2000's era Florida themed apartment buildings, not an escape to a different location or time. Additionally, have a bus loop feels like the value and moderate resorts, compared to the luxury category. That said..... The rooms are every bit as nice, having walking access to DS, and being able to park close to room for grocery/luggage drop off, are all nice. Finally, if you are driving to the parks, you are close to your car and you don't care about the bus loop. So, while many people have no interest in SSR, others actually prefer it. Just know the warts..... As far as the AKV value.... even 1BR are tough. It can be done, but look read up on "walking" and getting nights after the walkers drop them on the threads. You can't just log on at 11 months and be guaranteed of availability. During peak times (and low point seasons), the value 1BR are not typically available. You need to look for available nights before you reservation window and "walk" it to the exact nights you want.

Thanks for this, I did read on the "walking" and I think I get it. So basically you have to really work for it and maybe get lucky. Bottom line the gist I am getting is dont assume you can get value, probably not worth factoring that in.

Thanks for you reply

 

[matt_in_nh]

I would not buy expecting SV rooms at BLT and BWV, even in 1 bedrooms. Use the charts from LV and PV so that if SV is there, again, bonus way to save points.

ok, so this is similar to value rooms at AKL?

 

[matt_in_nh]

Make sure you’re thinking about time and money and how they relate to each other. If you straight line costs, SSR and VGF will have similar buy in costs. If you assume even just 1% annual returns on the money you wouldn’t spend up front if you paid cash for the rooms instead of buying in, SSR takes a significant lead over VGF, and that grows as you increase your likely savings rate

Good point!

 

[matt_in_nh]

The expiration of the resort is not insignificant, but current value, factoring in the purchase price of ~$109pp (Fidelity-no link, competes with sponsor) vs. ~$150 gives a much better bang for the buck.

I disagree, I expect the 2042 deeds to decrease in value soon and be hard to sell at some point. There are almost no resales of HH today because of the dues but the deed is a lurking devaluer IMO. I am staying away from the 2042 deeds if I buy.

 

[tom1944]

I disagree, I expect the 2042 deeds to decrease in value soon and be hard to sell at some point. There are almost no resales of HH today because of the dues but the deed is a lurking devaluer IMO. I am staying away from the 2042 deeds if I buy.

That was my original thought but at the right price and the expectation to use until expiration I might purchase a Boardwalk contract.

 

[eticketplease]

ok, so this is similar to value rooms at AKL?

Yes BLT there are only 24 standard studios.

This also affects poly to a lesser degree with the Lake studios as they are only on 1 side of 1 longhouse.

What sources?

I am not sure these are allowed but I like:
DVC HELP
https://www.dvcfieldguide.com/dvc-checklist
DVC INFO

 

[Sandisw]

ok, so this is similar to value rooms at AKL?

Yes. AKV Value and CL are even hard for owners to secure, let alone those that don't own there. For BWV and BLT, its those who don't own that will have difficulty...most owners, outside the really busy DVC time from mid September to right after Marathon in January, are able to book during the home resort period.

If buying something like SSR in hopes to regularly trade into those resorts into the lowest category of rooms, could be frustrating....that is why you plan for LV and PV...then, if those open up for one of your trips, or you get them by stalking/waitlisting, then its a bonus!

 

[tom1944]

Yes. AKV Value and CL are even hard for owners to secure, let alone those that don't own there. For BWV and BLT, its those who don't own that will have difficulty...most owners, outside the really busy DVC time from mid September to right after Marathon in January, are able to book during the home resort period.

If buying something like SSR in hopes to regularly trade into those resorts into the lowest category of rooms, could be frustrating....that is why you plan for LV and PV...then, if those open up for one of your trips, or you get them by stalking/waitlisting, then its a bonus!

I was looking at this today and it seems to me even at 11-month a BLT 1BR standard and BWV 2BR standard would not be a guarantee.

 

[eticketplease]

that is why you plan for LV and PV

I kept racking my brain trying to figure out those abbreviations. Finally figured out lake and preferred rooms. It’s 10:30 am and DS has had me up since 5 and still haven’t had my coffee lol

 

[Sandisw]

I was looking at this today and it seems to me even at 11-month a BLT 1BR standard and BWV 2BR standard would not be a guarantee.

Remember, at BWV 2 bedrooms are all lock offs, so when the studios are gone, so are the 2 bedrooms....but, I agree...BLT SV rooms at 11 months are not a guarantee either, but not to the degree that AKV Value and CL are

 

[eticketplease]

I was looking at this today and it seems to me even at 11-month a BLT 1BR standard and BWV 2BR standard would not be a guarantee.

BWV for sure will be gone as there are no dedicated 2BR so once standard studios are gone you are out of luck.