Questions for Representative Payees of Soc Sec for your dd or ds?

[HappyGilmore]

Looking for fellow rep payees of your own children for some help. So many questions I have.

My husband was diagnosed with stage 3b in operable lung cancer back in early 2009 and due to the severity of his condition he was granted soc sec disability benefits under the compassionate allowance program. Basically it was a very quick approval process and due to the fact we have two small children, thay qualified for a small benefit monthly. The benefit payments started soon after and as you can imagine 2009 was a crazy year with the diagnosis, treatment, and lifestyle changes that we had to make because he was no longer able to continue working. Meanwhile I continued working a full time job try while trying to maintain family, finances and my sanity. Soc Sec didn't really explain anything about how these accounts work so I thought nothing of it at first.

Our children had existing bank accounts (dh and I are joint owners) so I set their funds to go direct deposit to each child's account. When I had an expense for them (preschool tuition, clothing,doctor visits, pre-paid college payments ) I would save the receipts, keep track in an excel spread sheet, pay from my checking account and then transfer the funds from which ever child had the expense to my checking account or to pay the credit card that I used. Sometimes I wouldn't do the transfer right away it may be a month or two before I get chance to move the money to reimburse the money used from my account / creidt card. Last year I completed the accounting statement as I was required but I didn't even know that was required until I got it in the mail.

There are many things that I have since learned that I could be using the funds for that I haven't such as to pay medical insurance premiums, dental premiums, recreation etc. Since I haven't been really using the finds they have been acumulating a little. My thinking was to let $ acumulate then it could be used for big expenses that we might incur as they get older. Recently, I thought about opening checking accounts for each of them but because of the age of the kids the bank won't allow it under the current accounts. I found out that maybe I have been keeping the wrong type of account that I need an actual Rep Payee account- the titling may need to be changed on each account from their name with us as joint - to their name with my name as the rep payee? Also it seems that the account balance should not exceed $2000.00 but I don't know if that pertains to only ssi beneficieries or to everyone that has is a beneficiary or has a rep payee?? I have checked the soc sec website and find the info so confusing . Doesn't surprise me because it government. Anyway it seems to mix rep payee of soc sec benefits in with rep pay for ssi (which we dont have). It apprears to me that there are some differences but yet maybe it is the same. My specific questions are:

Can the balances exceed $2000.00 or do I need to keep it below? If I had been using the funds for things that I could have it would have accumulated lol. Am I limited to keeping only $2,000 max? If one of the accounts exceeds that now if I make a lump sum payment to payoff a small pre-paid college acccount would that be okay? Also I saw something about purchasing savings bonds - is that a way to keep the account under if necessary, what if they grow to over 2K?

If I have accounts for each of my children (which I had before they started getting the benefit) are these okay or do I need to open differently titled accounts?

Something said about mixing funds with "your" funds and while they have their own accounts for the deposit I move the money to mine to pay for things .. is this okay or a problem?

If I need to make changes, what about all past transactions where I transfered the funds to my account instead of taking out of each account to pay. Do I not worry about them and just go forward correctly (if I've been doing it wrong?).

Can I use the funds to pay for say a Disney ticket or fare on a trip (recreational)?

What about Christmas gifts for each child? I bought sepearately for each child and saved the receipts (haven't made the transfers yet) now not sure if I can use it for this? Is it is too late to make the transfers if I paid it should I have just bought using the funds directly?

I read on the ss website that you can even use the funds to purchase something like a TV that can be used by the family (not planning to do this) but that seems odd.

With the health insurance premiums, that comes out or my paycheck monthly and is about $500.00 for the family (my stub is broken down by employee 1 amt and
family another about $190 per paycheck) family includes my husband so how do I determine how much is for each child?
Dental is similar $55.00 per month covers all 4 of us do I divide by 4? and can I go back to last July to reimburse for all those months I've paid?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[PatsMom]

My husband was a representative payee for our daughter for about two years, until she turned 18. He was not on disability, he was drawing his regular retirement benefit. We were careful to keep my daughter's money separate, but didn't go to the lengths that you have.

One thing that made accounting easier is that we saved her benefit for her college education. We had the monthly deposit into my husband's checking account, then a direct transfer to a 529 plan for her college. When I did the annual accounting, I just listed the 529 account as hers, even though I was the owner and she was the beneficiary. So I would think a joint account would be fine.

I never heard of a $2,000 limit but the rules could be different for disability benefits. Your best bet is probably to check with your social security office.

My understanding was that the money had to be spent on the child or clearly segregated for their benefit. I also understood from our local social security office that paying the monthly utilities, etc would be acceptable if we just divided by three and figured one third was her expense. The accounting form is not very specific - it just asks how much did you spend and how much did you save as I recall.

 

[golfgal]

Part of the $2000 limit is that if your "net worth" is over a certain amount, you don't qualify for the benefits. I know our neighbors have a disabled child and he can't "own" anything (under $2000) or he loses his SSDI and other benefits. I would consult your DH's social worker (if he has one) or a local ombudsman to assist you through this process. I would also open a checking account in your name for the "care of" the kids so you can write checks right from that account. I know our neighbors have a separate account for their son but it just has their name on the checks. When our kids babysit for their son they note in the memo line that it is for "RA care".

 

[minkydog]

SSI is different from SSDI. SSI is income-based and you cannot have assests above a certain limit or you lose the benefit. SSDI is disability based, there fore you can own assets and not lose the benefit. My DH is on SSDI and my youngest two children receive a benefit based on his disability.

I don't keep the kind of record you do. It sounds like you're making things unnecessarily hard on yourself. We keep records of household expenses for the month and divide that figure by 4, the number in our household. The remaining figure is almost exactly 1/4 of our monthly expenses. We make those documents available to the powers that be annually. The SSA approved our method and we have never been questioned in 5 years.

 

[HappyGilmore]

Part of the $2000 limit is that if your "net worth" is over a certain amount, you don't qualify for the benefits. I know our neighbors have a disabled child and he can't "own" anything (under $2000) or he loses his SSI and other benefits. I would consult your DH's social worker (if he has one) or a local ombudsman to assist you through this process. I would also open a checking account in your name for the "care of" the kids so you can write checks right from that account. I know our neighbors have a separate account for their son but it just has their name on the checks. When our kids babysit for their son they note in the memo line that it is for "RA care".

I don't know if the net worth applies since my children aren't disabled - they don't get ssi either.

 

[abdmom]

I'm the representative payee for my children for survivor's benefits. The accounting document comes yearly. The only thing I have to do is state how much money was spent on the children and how much was save. There is no detailed accounting required. If you save any, they will question the savings. Between the housing expenses, food, tuition etc., I have no difficulty spending the money.

 

[HappyGilmore]

SSI is different from SSDI. SSI is income-based and you cannot have assests above a certain limit or you lose the benefit. SSDI is disability based, there fore you can own assets and not lose the benefit. My DH is on SSDI and my youngest two children receive a benefit based on his disability.

I don't keep the kind of record you do. It sounds like you're making things unnecessarily hard on yourself. We keep records of household expenses for the month and divide that figure by 4, the number in our household. The remaining figure is almost exactly 1/4 of our monthly expenses. We make those documents available to the powers that be annually. The SSA approved our method and we have never been questioned in 5 years.

It's just a little frightening to me to know that if the funds are "mis-used" that you can be legally required to pay them all back and also could face a fine and imprisonment .

I am not "intentionally" going to mis use the funds and but somethings are different to some people - it's all in the interpretation. I don't want to be mis interpreting. Believe me I was shocked to find out that the kids qualified for a benefit. I was in tears when the rep told me about it and I felt such a big weight lifted off my shoulders. I just don't want any hassles. Since his diagnosis on 4/23/2009 I had several times where I completely lost it emotionally while in my car and alone I had to pull over because I couldn't drive in that condition. I think this stemmed from trying to maintaining hope and composure while around him and the kids so that it wouldn't be apparent how worried I was about losing the love of my life and my dd's losing their daddy. I think I am just getting around to living all those days that I missed while I was in a fog about the news of the illness. Now things have calmed down, treatment is complete and so far his quarterly cat scans have showed no cancer growth - Praise the Lord. While I am thankul for the benefit the responsibility of keeping track seems to be important and tedious.

 

[minkydog]

It's just a little frightening to me to know that if the funds are "mis-used" that you can be legally required to pay them all back and also could face a fine and imprisonment .

I am not "intentionally" going to mis use the funds and but somethings are different to some people - it's all in the interpretation. I don't want to be mis interpreting. Believe me I was shocked to find out that the kids qualified for a benefit. I was in tears when the rep told me about it and I felt such a big weight lifted off my shoulders. I just don't want any hassles. Since his diagnosis on 4/23/2009 I had several times where I completely lost it emotionally while in my car and alone I had to pull over because I couldn't drive in that condition. I think this stemmed from trying to maintaining hope and composure while around him and the kids so that it wouldn't be apparent how worried I was about losing the love of my life and my dd's losing their daddy. I think I am just getting around to living all those days that I missed while I was in a fog about the news of the illness. Now things have calmed down, treatment is complete and so far his quarterly cat scans have showed no cancer - Praise the Lord. While I am thankul for the benefit the responsibility of keeping track seems to be important and tedious.

But it doesn't have to be. You're making it difficult and tedious. The benefit is for the care and upkeep of the children. That means you can use the money for groceries, mortgage, car payments, clothing,schooling, utilities, pretty much anything that your children require to keep them fed and sheltered. Put the money into your household funds and keep monthly household records. That's all that is required. I had a hard time with this in the beginning. Like I should be able to manage this because I am their mother! What kind of parent can't take care of their children, right? But that's what SSDI is there for, so family's can weather these storms without falling completely to pieces.

I'm really happy to hear that your hubby is stable now. i can really identify with your feelings. DH is severely disabled with heart/lung disease. He has been in intensive care many times and his health fluctuates from pretty decent to OMG! every year. I feel like I live in a state of waiting for something to happen all the time. It is very difficult for me to make future plans because i can't really count on a future with him. At the moment things are going well, and I'm grateful for that. We have to hold on to the good things in our life and be grateful for the assistance we receive and deserve.

 

[golfgal]

SSI is different from SSDI. SSI is income-based and you cannot have assests above a certain limit or you lose the benefit. SSDI is disability based, there fore you can own assets and not lose the benefit. My DH is on SSDI and my youngest two children receive a benefit based on his disability.

I don't keep the kind of record you do. It sounds like you're making things unnecessarily hard on yourself. We keep records of household expenses for the month and divide that figure by 4, the number in our household. The remaining figure is almost exactly 1/4 of our monthly expenses. We make those documents available to the powers that be annually. The SSA approved our method and we have never been questioned in 5 years.

I don't know if the net worth applies since my children aren't disabled - they don't get ssi either.

OOPS, forgot the "D", edited

SSDI does have some qualifications for assets. There are other qualifications if you are an adult and married like in Minky's case. Part of the limits are that they want you to use that money for the benefit of the minors. If you are carrying too much money in their savings accounts, perhaps you are withholding necessary things from the child (which isn't happening but it could be perceived that way).

 

[tvguy]

I'm the representative payee for my children for survivor's benefits. The accounting document comes yearly. The only thing I have to do is state how much money was spent on the children and how much was save. There is no detailed accounting required. If you save any, they will question the savings. Between the housing expenses, food, tuition etc., I have no difficulty spending the money.

I think Survivors Benefits are handled differently. I got them, but we never had to account for how we spent them. Now Veterans Administration benefits, the paperwork was a nigItmare, and considering those benefits were 1/10th of what Social Security paid a month, it was a hassle. My dad had a couple of years to get the family finances in order after he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. He and my mom made some big changes so that we could live on just what my mom earned. All my benefits went into the bank for college. My mom very aggresively managed that money. When CD rates hit 16%, she locked all the money up for 5 years, which was when I hit college. By then CD rates had dropped to 8%, so my mom sure made the right move.

 

[Cindy B]

The OP is making it much harder than it needs to be. Disability payments (I'll call them DIB) are different than SSI. SSI does have an income limit, whereas dib payments DONT.

The rep payee accounting form is pretty easy to do. When I worked for Soc. Security, there were individuals that would call rep payees if they filled out the form incorrectly or didn't understand the form. The "goal" in Soc. Sec. "eyes" is zero.. if you spend it all, or save it all.. they want to see zero.

For example you get 10,000 benefits, the form was to see 10,000 spent/saved or whatever and the net balance on the form to be zero.

Sure you could make beautiful spreadsheets and track exhaustively, but all they want to see is zero. I can't tell you how many rep conversations with rep payees I heard..

SSA Rep: We got your rep payee form in the mail and we have a question

Rep payee: Yes

SSA Rep: We see that you did not put a net amount on the form. Did you spend all the money given?

Rep payee; yes

SSA Rep: Next time, please make sure the form shows zero at the end and that all the money was allocated. Thank you.

That is it. Nothing more.

Survivors disability accounts are not really any different. SSI is different and has income restrictions but disability does not. Some people did get both, SSI and disability and if needed the disability check amount was reduced due to SSI guidelines.

 

[jlder72]

I receive SSDI and military disiblilty for both my self and my daughter.

SSDI: I opened up a seperate account for my daughter (with my name attached) for her SSDI benefits but I did not need to. As others have said, once a year soc sec send out a form to fill out that her funds were allocated but you do not have to keep detailed records to send it. You can put down general things like mortgage, food, school expenses etc. but no detailed spreadsheets are needed. I called to clarify this because I thought I had to do it monthly but never received anything monthly and was tols it was a form once a year.

Military disibility benefits: I have never had to shown any sort of record for these for my child. It may make a difference that I amm 100% total and permanent disabled so we also qualify for the CHamp VA health insurance for her. The other benefit of the 100% if she qualifies for college benefits that will more than cover her tuition, books, food and still leave her a little left over spending (supporting) money for the month and can stay on the health insurance.

IMHO you are putting too my energy into your record keeping. Use that time to spend with your family and help control your own sanity. I know what it was like before all mine went through but it only took a matter of months for the whole process for SSDI and immediatly for the military with my diagnosis but I excellent physicians helping and my county VA officer

 

[cm8]

It's just a little frightening to me to know that if the funds are "mis-used" that you can be legally required to pay them all back and also could face a fine and imprisonment .

I am not "intentionally" going to mis use the funds and but somethings are different to some people - it's all in the interpretation. I don't want to be mis interpreting. Believe me I was shocked to find out that the kids qualified for a benefit. I was in tears when the rep told me about it and I felt such a big weight lifted off my shoulders. I just don't want any hassles. Since his diagnosis on 4/23/2009 I had several times where I completely lost it emotionally while in my car and alone I had to pull over because I couldn't drive in that condition. I think this stemmed from trying to maintaining hope and composure while around him and the kids so that it wouldn't be apparent how worried I was about losing the love of my life and my dd's losing their daddy. I think I am just getting around to living all those days that I missed while I was in a fog about the news of the illness. Now things have calmed down, treatment is complete and so far his quarterly cat scans have showed no cancer growth - Praise the Lord. While I am thankul for the benefit the responsibility of keeping track seems to be important and tedious.

 

[aprilgail2]

I'm the representative payee for my children for survivor's benefits. The accounting document comes yearly. The only thing I have to do is state how much money was spent on the children and how much was save. There is no detailed accounting required. If you save any, they will question the savings. Between the housing expenses, food, tuition etc., I have no difficulty spending the money.

My friend got survivors benefits for both her kids and she just put it all into 529s each month for them and they had a nice stash of money towards college when they were old enough.