question on certain rent board etiquette

[gazeborob]

OK,
I think I am missing something here. I have been trying to rent points for a trip next year to the BCV. I will only have them transferred to my account so I am in control. Correct me please if I am wrong, but I thought that you couldn’t transfer banked points. And from what I can tell, there is someone on the rent board going around and trying to get all the expiring points they can. If those points are expiring, in most cases they would have been banked from the year before. So, how are they getting them transferred? If there is a way around the system, I sure wish I knew it.

I will also say that I have noticed one person over there that has one post with 900 points for rent, and another with 600+ points. At the same time, they are trying to pick up points from other renters. I will say it is a little miss leading to me.

 

[magicalmcwho]

Hi,

I asked the 900 point person, why they were asking to buy points in one post and had 900 points for rent in the post just below that.
The reply:

I am trying to accomodate a large reservation for someone by renting some points.

Jim.

 

[disneyberry]

[SIZE=+0]

I don't really have a problem with the guy who buys them low and sells them high and is up front about it. I once had to get rid of some of our points, sold them to someone who does that and frankly, felt he did me a service. I could stop worrying about it and not take time off from work to deal with potential renters. (I have rented a couple of times, and believe me, if he made a profit, he earned it!).

mikesmom, this is a good explanation and ITA with what you wrote. Again, the issue w/ whoever is being referred to by the OP is that they are not being upfront about the fact that they are going to be re-renting the points. I think that if they were being upfront, it wouldn't be a problem.

As long as the IRS is being mentioned, I would like to know if you rent your points, do you need to claim that rental as income?

Yes, you are supposed to report rental income. Consult your tax advisor for details.[/SIZE]

 

[ssnelle]

Fellow DVC's

I am writing to you all a bit furious because I have been mentioned in a couple of the most recent threads, not by name of course but easy enough to figure out. Although I have done nothing wrong and I am a completely honest and ethical person, I feel the need to defend myself! Please anyone, go in and review my threads and posts and make up your own minds...I have already emailed webmaster DOC to review everything and let me know what he thinks.

We joined DVC last January ('04) and knew we wouldn't return so quickly banked our points. We then put up our points to rent and sold the banked, current and subsequently borrowed points at $10/point. It was so quick and easy, and quite frankly I had fun doing it, so my husband and I added another 250 points to our existing 150. I then rented those at $10/point and they all went quickly except for @ 200 borrowed points. At this point while I was renting the remainder of the borrowed points I was approached by a woman who needed 450 points for a grand villa and was having trouble getting them all from one party. So there I was with a thread trying to rent points and then I quickly added another new thread trying to rent more to help her...I didn't need to do this but I did. The only person who really offered a transfer was a family (a cluster of a family) that had 844 points. They would only transfer if I took them all. The grand villa people went through with their reservation although they shortened it and I had another person cancel a reservation plus I had this bulk of my borrowed points. So this is where I stood with @ 904 points. (At present it is down to @ 600 which is why someone saw me with 2 threads). YES, I started renting these points at $11/point because for those who do not know it, there is alot that goes into the rental process...there is time, energy, patience and risk. I purchased these points for almost $10...I would be a fool to do all that work for FREE thus why they are at $11.

I did recently inquire about someone who was renting very low points, $6/point (as did many others) but I did not go any farther. I have NEVER had anything transferred to my account except fot this one time 844 points. I am sort of angry about the implication by others that I have done anything unscrupulous, unethical or dishonest and do not appreciate being put in the same category of those who do, or those who do scam and plead for help and then capitalize on it...I never have done it and do not plan on it!

I am a stay-at-home mom with three little boys (2, 4 and 6) and quite frankly this rental stuff has taken a bit too much time out of my time with them. And now I have a pit in my stomach that won't go away because some people have implied I am in the like of those who are shady. It is 1:40 am and I sit hear writing this. I need to try to get some sleep before my 2 year old wakes to nurse.

Again, I emailed webmaster DOC explaining all this before writing this thread and asked him to review all my posts, threads, etc. pertaining to all this and am asking for him to email me with his feedback...I think I know what his response will be.

Good night.

Ellen

 

[SueOKW]

Hello Ellen - You mention risk.

There is a risk when buying points. As the person buying the points I find I am usually taking the risk, not the person selling. Every time I've had to send the money first and wait for the check to clear. I can't see how the seller is at risk in that scenario. When you bought that big contract you were certainly at risk if you paid up front.

If you mean you're at risk because after you've helped someone you are now stuck with a lot of points - I see what you mean. That was a whopping amount of points to buy for $10 per. Breaking even rather than making money would help to lessen the risk of being stuck with them, I suppose. If selling gets too difficult at $11 it's only a difference of $840 and I imagine they would be gone pretty quickly!

 

[simpilotswife]

Practices like what has been mentioned have been going on for several years. That and "scarfing up peak reservations for rental at exorbitant prices which no one is supposed to mind because it can't possibly be profitable and everyone has the same 11 mo window" have been a big complaint for a long time.

While there are not many people who practice what has been laid out it does happen with regularity by some posters on the DIS. Naming names is not allowed though as that is considered to be a personal attack. The allegations against these posters cannot be proven and it is pointless to try.

All that we as concerned DVC members can do is raise the subject periodically to heighten awareness. Beyond that our hands are tied.

 

[Dean]

Hello Ellen - You mention risk.

There is a risk when buying points. As the person buying the points I find I am usually taking the risk, not the person selling. Every time I've had to send the money first and wait for the check to clear. I can't see how the seller is at risk in that scenario. When you bought that big contract you were certainly at risk if you paid up front.

If you mean you're at risk because after you've helped someone you are now stuck with a lot of points - I see what you mean. That was a whopping amount of points to buy for $10 per. Breaking even rather than making money would help to lessen the risk of being stuck with them, I suppose. If selling gets too difficult at $11 it's only a difference of $840 and I imagine they would be gone pretty quickly!

There are risks on both sides. I know some have the mistaken idea that because you can cancel and get all your points back, it's not risk, that's stupid. I usually rent about once a year or a little more on average but I've been doing it for 10 years so I have a fair amount of experience with it. Certainly if you got full payment up front prior to making the reservation and renting at say 10 months prior to your use year and in that use year, there would be no risk. But in any other situation, there is risk. Risks include

• The check may not go through.
• You may mis out on other rentals in the process
• If you work with a deposit and full payment later, they may not pay when the time comes.
• The risks associated with banked and borrowed points.

Of course there are ways to minimize the risks from both sides. The main one from a renter's standpoint is to always work with current years points and in the first half of the use year. That's not feasible in all cases though.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Fellow DVC's

I am writing to you all a bit furious because I have been mentioned in a couple of the most recent threads, not by name of course but easy enough to figure out. Although I have done nothing wrong and I am a completely honest and ethical person, I feel the need to defend myself! Please anyone, go in and review my threads and posts and make up your own minds...I have already emailed webmaster DOC to review everything and let me know what he thinks.

We joined DVC last January ('04) and knew we wouldn't return so quickly banked our points. We then put up our points to rent and sold the banked, current and subsequently borrowed points at $10/point. It was so quick and easy, and quite frankly I had fun doing it, so my husband and I added another 250 points to our existing 150. I then rented those at $10/point and they all went quickly except for @ 200 borrowed points. At this point while I was renting the remainder of the borrowed points I was approached by a woman who needed 450 points for a grand villa and was having trouble getting them all from one party. So there I was with a thread trying to rent points and then I quickly added another new thread trying to rent more to help her...I didn't need to do this but I did. The only person who really offered a transfer was a family (a cluster of a family) that had 844 points. They would only transfer if I took them all. The grand villa people went through with their reservation although they shortened it and I had another person cancel a reservation plus I had this bulk of my borrowed points. So this is where I stood with @ 904 points. (At present it is down to @ 600 which is why someone saw me with 2 threads). YES, I started renting these points at $11/point because for those who do not know it, there is alot that goes into the rental process...there is time, energy, patience and risk. I purchased these points for almost $10...I would be a fool to do all that work for FREE thus why they are at $11.

I did recently inquire about someone who was renting very low points, $6/point (as did many others) but I did not go any farther. I have NEVER had anything transferred to my account except fot this one time 844 points. I am sort of angry about the implication by others that I have done anything unscrupulous, unethical or dishonest and do not appreciate being put in the same category of those who do, or those who do scam and plead for help and then capitalize on it...I never have done it and do not plan on it!

I am a stay-at-home mom with three little boys (2, 4 and 6) and quite frankly this rental stuff has taken a bit too much time out of my time with them. And now I have a pit in my stomach that won't go away because some people have implied I am in the like of those who are shady. It is 1:40 am and I sit hear writing this. I need to try to get some sleep before my 2 year old wakes to nurse.

Again, I emailed webmaster DOC explaining all this before writing this thread and asked him to review all my posts, threads, etc. pertaining to all this and am asking for him to email me with his feedback...I think I know what his response will be.

Good night.

Ellen

I just want to set it straight that it wasnt you who I was reffering to. Maybe others were referencing you, but it certainly wasnt the focus of my original post

 

[SueOKW]

There are risks on both sides. But in any other situation, there is risk. Risks include

• The check may not go through.
• You may mis out on other rentals in the process
• If you work with a deposit and full payment later, they may not pay when the time comes.
• The risks associated with banked and borrowed points.

Of course there are ways to minimize the risks from both sides.

Yes, the people I've rented from have always waited for the check to clear - totally understandable. My easiest rental was a paypal transaction. that goes hand in hand with getting the full payment up front. So - really the risks as I see them are missing out on a better client and the banking and borrowing bit.

Dean, I bow to your expertise in all areas of this - I have very little experience in buying and none in renting. However, it seems that if you are at risk of losing points, couldn't you cut your losses and sell the points at a lower price? I would also work with paypal rather than wait for checks to clear. More expedient and all that.

Very interesting discussion.

 

[ssnelle]

To those who pm'd me, thank you. I know I am not the one that was targeted by this post, but the fact that some recent ones questioned me, I wanted to set the record straight that I have always been on the up and up. Why else would I expose who I am if I had something to hide...another thing, on many of my posts and threads and replies I give my personal home and cell phone #'s...I don't think ANYONE who is scamming would do that.

As far as risk involved, Sue OKW is almost right. Once an owner has been paid and the check has cleared, the owner then only has a small risk. But getting to that point, there is risk involved especially when dealing with banked and borrowed points, as well as when people want reservations w/in 60 days of vacation commencing. Also, I have only thus far rented to 9 persons and have been dealing only with personal checks. So yes, there are risks for the owner, it is not peaches and cream. All my rentals have gone beautifully so far and they have been as pleased as I...I have even received personal thank you letters from 4 persons with their payment thanking me for all my time and help...and again, I have enjoyed doing this...until now.

An interesting sidekick to all this, the large family I transferred the 844 points from had an interesting situation. Last year they rented to a party who at check-in time in December asked the person at the desk if they could change their reservation...they had a 2 night reservation in a studio and wanted to use those points to change to one night in a one bedroom and pay cash for the 2nd night in the 1 bedroom. I am flawed to say that this request was not only granted, but the owner (who had no knowledge of any of this) was charged an extra 2 points the following Monday that was needed to make the studio/bedroom switch for that first night. All of this he did not know until he/they went to make the transfer to me...that is when he discovered this. Apparently, the person at the desk was not terribly knowledgeable and member services was closed. SO they granted all this, and strangely enough when member services opened Monday morning they let it go through w/out even contacting the member. I am not stating this stuff goes on routinely, but that sure was scary to hear as an owner. Needless to say, when he discovered this two weeks ago he fought and got the points back...good for him!

Good day, Ellen

 

[magicalmcwho]

Hi,

I would like to say I didn’t mean to imply that the user was scamming anyone in my previous post. I posted only because I thought the user may be running some sort of point rental business. I only thought that because of the buying and renting of points posts next to each other (that’s what I get for thinking). I would like to apologize and say I am truly sorry if the user was offended and hurt by the post.


Jim.

 

[TCPluto]

I think Ssnelle is the victim of incredibly poor timing! Just as this discussion broachs the topic of buying low and selling high, she posts in mutiple threads doing just that, for different reasons it appears, than causes so many the concern.

Snelle is not the person I referenced.

At $12-$15 pp, we're still saving folks hundreds of dollars on Disney reservations, so I don't think the price is the issue for anyone either. Selling at less just transfers a greater savings to the renters, which is fine if you want to do that too.

Sorry, Snelle. You're timing couldn't have been worse.

 

[crisi]

Another risk for the owner....

In another thread it was posted that DVC will charge for room damage - we haven't heard of it, but that would be my biggest concern with renting points - that the renter would trash the room and I'd get stuck holding the bill! With my luck, I'd be the first DIS owner who got charged for renter damage.

I think its really cool that the rent/trade board exists, but its naive to believe that you can't get scammed on any end of the transaction.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I think "naming names" may have some problems:

...


2. Was it Cicero that said it's better to let a criminal go free than punish an innocent? In other words, a misunderstood innocent may be hurt.

I hope we all learned from ssnelle here. I'm quoting my previous post.

 

[SueOKW]

Another risk for the owner....

In another thread it was posted that DVC will charge for room damage - we haven't heard of it, but that would be my biggest concern with renting points - that the renter would trash the room and I'd get stuck holding the bill! With my luck, I'd be the first DIS owner who got charged for renter damage.

I think its really cool that the rent/trade board exists, but its naive to believe that you can't get scammed on any end of the transaction.

I agree. Personally I believe the risk is more on the buyer's side - that's all. I've been very successful in my buying - and it was from people on this rent/trade board. I too, am happy it exists.

I can't imagine selling - the hassle and middle-ish risk would be a major pain to me. I do think I would sell though, before I'd give the points to my brother-in-law!!

 

[RobDoc]

To address some of the comments in this thread ...

I'm not aware of any DIS site guideline violations in any of the posts currently on the Rent/Trade Board. In the past, the few problem issues we've ever had on that board were due to those who took it upon themselves to force their own vigilante actions on the Rent/Trade Board. As evidenced in this thread itself, the assertion by some that those who rent more than others are doing something unlawful or unethical or worse may have overstepped some boundaries themselves - resulting in incorrect accusations and, in some cases, hurt feelings.

Please review the Rent/Trade Board policy changes noted in this thread:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=764916

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[ssnelle]

Thank you DOC. I appreciate the above and the personal email as well. I also want to thank all who have supported me (MANY pm's) and have received personal apologies from the two who questioned my doings.

As I wrote back to one of them, I am sure that some persons skate on the side of unethical, but maybe we should all let the judges take care of it rather than the innocent wear the scarlet letter.

What makes me feel horrible about all this is the would-be non-member renters who have been following this post and threads...how we all must come across to them, and yet how can we expect them to join us in membership if this is how we treat each other? Can we all just put this to rest and enjoy the good and fun that comes with ownership?

Thanks again, Ellen Hernandez (ssnelle)

 

[SoCalKDG]

Please review the Rent/Trade Board policy changes noted in this thread:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=764916

We do realize that there are circumstances when it may be disadvantageous, due to banking deadlines and cancellation policies, to cancel an existing reservation. We will allow existing reservations to be posted no more than 6 months in advance of the arrival date and will allow one such offering to be active at any given time on the site. This policy should allow those who find their schedules change on short notice ample opportunity to rent that reservation or reuse those points for another date.

This should help.

By the way, I don't think this thread mentioned once about renters getting screwed, thus this thread shouldn't have any impact on them.

 

[Dean]

Yes, the people I've rented from have always waited for the check to clear - totally understandable. My easiest rental was a paypal transaction. that goes hand in hand with getting the full payment up front. So - really the risks as I see them are missing out on a better client and the banking and borrowing bit.

Dean, I bow to your expertise in all areas of this - I have very little experience in buying and none in renting. However, it seems that if you are at risk of losing points, couldn't you cut your losses and sell the points at a lower price? I would also work with paypal rather than wait for checks to clear. More expedient and all that.

Very interesting discussion.

Sue once the full payment is made and cleared, the only real risk (assuming it was made non refundable as I always do) is legal action by the rentee and the fact that an owner has a certain amount of liability and therefore risk for all "guests". But if you ask for a deposit and payment later, there is a considerable risk if payment isn't forthcoming. That's one of the reasons that any transfer of points should be paid for up front prior to the transfer. I usually don't use paypal or ask the other party to pay the extra fees as an add on to their rental. But if you had to "cut your losses" that would be a major risk IMO, I try to stay out of that situation. When I rent I try to rent ONLY for reservations that occur in the first half of my use year and using current years points only. That's not to say it's always worked out as such. Usually what happens is I have someone who's rented from me before who wants to rent again so I end up bending my usual "rules" from time to time.