question on certain rent board etiquette

[OneMoreTry]

I think "naming names" may have some problems:

1. I'm sure the perpetrators would get very nasty. Criminals are real good at defending and justifying themselves. Even to the point of taking legal action against accusers, although I doubt anyone could sue in this situation.

2. Was it Cicero that said it's better to let a criminal go free than punish an innocent? In other words, a misunderstood innocent may be hurt.


But if you are gonna name names, I'm listening.

 

[CarolA]

Well, I am going to have to spend more time over there. (I thought at one point the IRS gave you a finder's bonus for tax evaders....wonder if that still works! ) Sorry, but I think I would have to point out the "paid price" on the rent post. If the poster doesn't like it, they can take thier business someplace else. (I am not too worried about someone tracking me down via these boards!)

And I think I found one of these people. I just topped his "rent" post on the rent/trade board.

It does occur to me that maybe he is violating the spirt of the board. It appears to be a full time business for this person and in that case the LEAST he/she could do is pay a sponsor fee!

 

[Alexander]

Yes, CarolA I did notice that! Let us know if you get a response as to what they are going to do with those points they are grabbing up. That was the one that offered me a villa during President's week when everything was sold out and they seemed to have plenty available to rent.

Since DVC reportedly has a naughty list, can we? I'm just kidding of course, I've learned to steer clear of these people, but I feel bad for those who get taken. I do try to PM people to give them a heads up to be careful.

 

[Dean]

I went and looked at the post Carol is referencing and posted on. After reviewing it, I think the beef is with DVC and not with this person. What I think is happening is they are taking advantage of a glitch in the system that allows transferred points to be extended by taking on the use year and home reosrt of the destination account. The others could always rent out their points if they so chose, they don't have to pass them to the person in question. For most it is likely a win-win situation. Anyone who spends time of the rent/trade board should know who the frequent renters are and thus are fully aware of what's going on.

From the OP on this thread, I thought what was happening was that the renter was lying saying THEY needed the points because they were in a bind then renting them out. If they're just giving others the opportunity to get rid of distressed points, I think that's no different than renting in general.

 

[bobbiwoz]

This thread is enlightening! The only person who contacted me reagarding a ressie that I eventually donated to charity, has many many posts on the R/T board. I was told (in PM) that he was treating friends to a Valentine weekend, and I thought that was so nice, and told him so, but he never commented on my comment, and frankly, that sent up a red flag to me. I only checked this information 10 minutes ago because of this thread.

I am a soft touch, and renting out points just can't be in my future.

Bobbi

 

[CarolA]

My beef is that they are running a business on the DIS boards using the servers paid for by the owners without paying compensationg. That just seems wrong. EBAY charges you a listing fee for example. And if they are telling sob stories to get points cheap that is certainly unethical.

If you want to run a rent business using DVC points fine, but do it right and on the up and up.

 

[rigsby25]

As long as the IRS is being mentioned, I would like to know if you rent your points, do you need to claim that rental as income? I just became a member in the fall, and I've borrowed already. I don't think it will ever happen, but I'd like to know.

 

[TCPluto]

I went and looked at the post Carol is referencing and posted on. After reviewing it, I think the beef is with DVC and not with this person. What I think is happening is they are taking advantage of a glitch in the system that allows transferred points to be extended by taking on the use year and home reosrt of the destination account. The others could always rent out their points if they so chose, they don't have to pass them to the person in question. For most it is likely a win-win situation. Anyone who spends time of the rent/trade board should know who the frequent renters are and thus are fully aware of what's going on.

From the OP on this thread, I thought what was happening was that the renter was lying saying THEY needed the points because they were in a bind then renting them out. If they're just giving others the opportunity to get rid of distressed points, I think that's no different than renting in general.

You're right Dean, expiring points would take on the use year and identity of the account they were transferred in to.

The way this is happening it may be a "win" for the seller, "win" for the buyer, but is often a "lose" for members at large making their own vacation plans. More often than not , these scalpers make several reservations during peak time periods, taking the accommodations away from members vacationing, for the purpose of profitting.

Some of these folks have expressed a sad story in getting points, although I don't know it to be the same person as Carol has identified. This guy just seems to be a ruthless capitalist. At the expense of those members not making use of early booking windows.

 

[crisi]

Alarming to me is that we always tell renters to look for someone with a board history....well, these people are getting a board history through both ends of their posts. And if they are willing to tell sob stories to get points, I'm not sure how far the ethical line they are willing to go. Its hard to tell anyone "renting points is relatively safe and few people get scammed" while watching this type of behavior.

 

[cruise-o-matic]

You're right Dean, expiring points would take on the use year and identity of the account they were transferred in to.

The way this is happening it may be a "win" for the seller, "win" for the buyer, but is often a "lose" for members at large making their own vacation plans. More often than not , these scalpers make several reservations during peak time periods, taking the accommodations away from members vacationing, for the purpose of profitting.

Some of these folks have expressed a sad story in getting points, although I don't know it to be the same person as Carol has identified. This guy just seems to be a ruthless capitalist. At the expense of those members not making use of early booking windows.

This is the same guy discussed in a thread about "Cash nights...." In some respects, he provides a service by buying up distressed points so that DVC owners can recoup some $ as opposed to $0 (actually, losing $ once you figure in maintenance fees and annualized points costs). Then he has to go go through the process of renting out these points. Some DVCer's consider renting a hassle, so if you could transfer at $8 and get your $ and be done with it, maybe it's worth it rather than trying to go through the rental process yourself and make $2-3 more per point.

I guess the big concern about transferring points is that someone could have a 25-50 pt BCV contract (ie low initial cost outlay to join DVC and low amount of annual maintenance fees), get any resort points for $8 or less and have them "laundered" into BCV points. Then in turn use them for the 11 month booking advantage for $15+ per point. That's not fair to the BCV owners (or non-BCVer's who want to try to book at 9am at 7 months out for that matter). That's a loophole that needs to be closed.

As far as sob stories, etc. If you've dealt with this person before and have proof they're lying, report it to a Mod.

 

[CarolA]

Technically you should probably report rental income to the IRS. However, I doubt they will chase you down for a one time rental. If you make it a business then... all bets are off.

 

[TCPluto]

I like Cruises analogy, referring to them as "laundered" points, that's exactly what they become.

The stories told to induce members to let their points go at a discount would be very difficult to prove/disprove, probably impossible I would suspect.

 

[Ergens2]

Now I am a little worried. This is the first time I am renting points from someone for my vacation. I am not a DVC member (yet! Hopefully after this trip my husband will come to his senses!) and am looking forward to a nice stay in a HAFH. My renters seems like a very nice person and I aready have a conf #. Does this sound legit? I guess I am already commited since I have set my payment to this person.

 

[goldilocks_63]

Several months ago, I was told that there would be a new reservation system.

I"m hoping that it will be able to track home resort, and expiration periods better...

Then that would put an end to this little laundering scheme.

Goldi

 

[Alexander]

Found another interesting scenario playing out on the rent/trade board....One member has points for sale at $11/point in one thread and is looking to rent points from another member at $6/point in another thread. This is the kind of thing that frustrates me! Those who may also be looking to rent those points for a really low price will likely lose out to someone who is likely going to turn around and rent them for $11! I think I just need to stay away from that board!

 

[SueOKW]

I've always had excellent communication with people I rent from. I think I've paid $10 every time. I've never been let down.

So Ergerns2, some bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch. How you verify that your reservation is safe and legit etc, is beyond my ken, since as a member, any points I buy transfer into my account. However, there are many wise people on this board that can help you.

Sue

 

[mikesmom]

I don't really have a problem with the guy who buys them low and sells them high and is up front about it. I once had to get rid of some of our points, sold them to someone who does that and frankly, felt he did me a service. I could stop worrying about it and not take time off from work to deal with potential renters. (I have rented a couple of times, and believe me, if he made a profit, he earned it!).

I have noticed the person soliciting cheap points with sad stories of friends, neighbors, cousins, etc. Certainly can't prove it's a scam,but it sure seems like she has way more than her share of these people in her life month after month!

 

[Dancind]

I started a post about this same person last summer, when I was trying to get a reservation for F&W in Oct. They had several rooms available, all at about $14 per point. They told me they couldn't do any better because "that reservation cost them more". I couldn't believe they were using the DIS boards to run a business, since this is where they also buy their points. The thread went on for quite a while, and they're still at it.

 

[Muushka]

I once questioned (I believe) the same soliciter with the mods. I was told
that they can't find anything wrong with the rentals offered. Humph

 

[DVCconvert]

Well, for better or for worse, I posted a link to this thread on the rent board.
I honestly believe that those renting points for the first time should have some 'heads up'....ahhhh...it will proably get nuked anyways

EDITED TO ADD:
yup, nuked. Not sure why. I was informed that the rent board was not a discussion board. My intention was only to raise the conscieness (sp?) of new renters to this possilble mistreatment (or inflated pricing)