Question for Muslim visitors to WDW

[KPeveler]

I don't get this either. Why does a women have to be totally covered and the males can wear anything. For any muslims where does this teaching come from?

Renee

Actually, that is not what the Muslim teaching is. Technically, men are supposed to be covered to a certain extent as well. Some Muslim teachings say that even men should cover their head (similar to the kipa/yarmulke in Judaism). It is simply that some Muslim men choose not to interpret the law in this way.

It may also be that the woman chooses to wear the burqa on her own. just because a woman is dressing like this does not mean that she is being forced. in fact, i know several women who cover their hair or even their face because they want to, because they feel it is part of their religion. No man forces them to do this.

So, no, Muslim law does not allow a man to wear whatever he wants. However, it is not always interpretted this way. (This law was taught to me by several muslim teachers, including a Muslim woman from India and a man from Turkey or Iran.)

As to the belly dancer in Morocco, there are multiple cultures in Morocco, and not all of them are Muslim. However, the Muslim culture is the prodominant culture, as has been since the spread of the Islamic Empire in the 7th century.

 

[Tinker74]

Actually, that is not what the Muslim teaching is. Technically, men are supposed to be covered to a certain extent as well. Some Muslim teachings say that even men should cover their head (similar to the kipa/yarmulke in Judaism). It is simply that some Muslim men choose not to interpret the law in this way.

It may also be that the woman chooses to wear the burqa on her own. just because a woman is dressing like this does not mean that she is being forced. in fact, i know several women who cover their hair or even their face because they want to, because they feel it is part of their religion. No man forces them to do this.

So, no, Muslim law does not allow a man to wear whatever he wants. However, it is not always interpretted this way. (This law was taught to me by several muslim teachers, including a Muslim woman from India and a man from Turkey or Iran.)

As to the belly dancer in Morocco, there are multiple cultures in Morocco, and not all of them are Muslim. However, the Muslim culture is the prodominant culture, as has been since the spread of the Islamic Empire in the 7th century.

That might be so...But were I come from in the Uk there are a LOT of muslims and Iam yet to see one of the muslim men wearing anything even close to a burqua.
The men here all seem to wear westernized clothing whereas the women are a mixture..some in just head scarves and modest clothing but some the minority though wear full burquas with just their eyes showing.
It all depends round here on how strict the Husband or father is.

 

[KPeveler]

i was just saying what the actual law says... sadly, it is often interpretted differently by individuals, to the detriment of women.

 

[NotUrsula]

I've been told that there is no rule requiring that modesty coverings be a certain color -- the black thing seems to just be customary in many countries because black fabric can be lighter weight without becoming translucent in sunlight, and it wears well. Afghan women usually don't choose black -- the most common color for a full Afghan-style burqa is actually a very pretty periwinkle blue, and a soft orange color is also quite popular. We also should remember that if you wear this sort of clothing every day in a country like Iraq or Iran, Florida heat isn't going to be quite so bad, though the humidity certainly takes some getting used to. As for men, they are supposed to wear rather modest clothing, too -- the observant Muslim men I know will not wear shorts or sleeveless shirts in mixed company.

Lighter colors are cooler, certainly, but loose clothing that covers most of the body can be quite a lot more comfortable in heat than more fitted Western style clothing. It keeps the sun off your skin and lets air freely circulate underneath.

BTW, there are several companies now that are making swimwear specifically for Muslim women; they look rather like a hooded Shalwar Kameez, and the tops tie to the pants at the hip so that they can't ride up in the water. They don't look very different from those competition full-wetsuit types, only loose through the body. I have some Muslim ladies in my water exercise class, and they seem quite comfortable in such suits.

 

[peel]

The last time I was at Magic Kingdom I saw several Muslims doing their prayers somewhere between Adventureland and Frontierland while I was riding the train. They seemed to be in a paved area behind one of the CM Only gates. I assume they allow that spot to be used for the daily prayers. I would ask at Guest Relations for designated quiet areas.

 

[2minny]

This topic is so interesting! Last time we were at WDW, we saw two families and my 13 year old asked, "why are the women/mothers covered, yet the teen daughters are dressed very skimpily". She remarked, almost skimpier than American teens. I thought that was an interesting observation. My daughter asked "do you think they're rebelling?"
Thoughts on this? Just curious if there are rules for the girls in the family? I know I'm probably very naive in this area.

 

[Ileana]

One year (almost 7 years ago now) we went to Wet & Wild, (as everyone should know is a WATER PARK), where we watched a family of 5 muslim women covered HEAD TO TOE in their Abaya's, face covered, the whole nine - who were going on all the water rides!!!!

Soaked to the bone and wearing full gear. Most interesting thing I ever saw in my life.

 

[stm61]

we were in the Ski Patrol area of BB last fall and there was a large Muslim family group there. The adult women, mother and grandmother age, stayed on the sides and watched, fully covered. The men and younger women, teen and 20's, were in the pool with the kids. The men and boys wore swim trunks, the men might have had sleeve less t's, and the young girls wore 1 piece suits. The women in the pool wore pedal pushers or pants and t shirts, long and short sleeves. One had a head covering on, the others did not. They were all enjoying themselves, tho they didn't interact with anyone else. I didn't see them on the bigger slides, but their kids might have been to young.

 

[BensMom]

I remember on one of the hottest days of our trip last August...I saw a muslim family arriving at the MK,,The mum was head to toes in a black burqua.
I almost fainted thinking how HOT she must be....She was also pushing a double pushchair loaded with bags.
Her Dh on the other hand was dressed in shorts and a tee.

We probably shouldn't go there, but, yes, I think that too! Along these same lines, I was witness to a Muslim family at Blizzard Beach. The father and two sons were in teeshirts and regular swimtrunks. The poor mother sat on a chaise, full-dress BLACK, sweating. Finally, this woman went in the water up to her neck, all this material floating around her! It was an interesting sight for this Episcopalian!

 

[KPeveler]

This topic is so interesting! Last time we were at WDW, we saw two families and my 13 year old asked, "why are the women/mothers covered, yet the teen daughters are dressed very skimpily". She remarked, almost skimpier than American teens. I thought that was an interesting observation. My daughter asked "do you think they're rebelling?"
Thoughts on this? Just curious if there are rules for the girls in the family? I know I'm probably very naive in this area.

Yes, the same rules apply for the girls (over a certain age... you often will not see toddlers wearing head coverings. can you imagine trying to get a 2-yr-old to cooperate with those)

The girls may have been "rebelling" or maybe the mother chooses to wear the traditional clothing out of tradition, but does not feel the need to require her girls to wear it. there are as many explanations and beliefs as there are Muslims!

 

[Stitch's Greatest Fa]

Hi, I am from the UK. I am a teacher here of 7 and 8 year old kids and Christain by religion. 85% of the kids in our school are muslim so before I am flamed or judged I know quite a lot about the religion of Islam.

Point 1: They don't have to eat pork or drink alcohol at WDW so why is this an issue.

Point 2: Noone is forcing muslim women wearing burkas or jubbahs (headscarf) to go on wet rides, entirely up to them if they get wet. Again I don't think this is an issue.

Point 3: The idol is not religious so does this matter.

Orthodox muslims are not supposed to draw portraits, takes pictures or video or watch tv, they are not supposed to see images of anyone other than God.
Thankfully this is not an issue in our school.

Bottom line and before anyone starts I am not getting at the OP, I understand their interest and concern but noone is forcing anyone to go to WDW or do anything in particular whilst there. WHat I am saying is going to WDW is a choice and if it does not agree with someone's religion they should take a holiday elsewhere.

 

[NotUrsula]

... 5 muslim women covered HEAD TO TOE in their Abaya's, face covered, the whole nine - who were going on all the water rides!!!!

Yes, it happens when Muslims go to water-intensive destinations. Most women are pretty wary of doing it, though, and rightly so -- swimming in multiple layers of loose fabric can be very hazardous. I think that these new swimsuits are wonderful for those women; no more choosing between safety and sitting on the sidelines watching the rest of the family have fun.

This is one of the new companies -- I can see similar suits (probably minus the hood) catching on with a certain population in the western world, too -- especially women with weight problems who are bashful about appearing in public in less modest swimwear. Water activities are good exercise, after all. http://www.ahiida.com/

BTW: I don't see any reason why Muslims and members of other faiths that have certain rules about appearance and fraternization cannot go to WDW, as long as they are aware of the limitations. Threads like this one serve a good purpose in giving out information. I wasn't seeing any flames at all, unless you count a few mentions of how unfair it seemed for women to wear enveloping black clothing in the heat while the men in their families were dressing much more lightly. That kind of wondering is understandable -- as outsiders many of us have trouble imagining voluntarily putting ourselves into a situation that would seem to us to be very physically uncomfortable, but thus it is. As long as we don't condemn or get too personal about it, some curiousity seems to me to be a good way to learn.

 

[Stitch's Greatest Fa]

Well said NotUrsula, I like the way you worded that last comment

 

[BensMom]

Just like you have strippers in a Chrisitan nation like good ol' United States of America.

There are strippers at EPCOT?!! OH MY! Then both the bachelor party AND the wedding can be at Disney!

 

[almburr]

A friend of ours shes in HS. Her father is Muslim but she is not. Parents are divorced. What she told me is that once a girl starts is when she coveres herself. And that the head of the house tells them to cover. This is what she told me. Her dad treats her like crap, first born and a girl.

 

[Applemomma]

Now see this is another reason why I'm so glad to be taking my kids to Disney World. We live in a mostly caucasian community where the most common religion is Baptist (we're United Baptist, I teach Sunday School). While our family has always tried to explain that there are different religions, for two little girls (ages 10 and 6 when we go) "seeing" will be so much more educational then "mommy says so"! And sad to say we have to travel a couple thousand miles to experience this!

While we would never want anyone who is Muslim to feel that we are looking at them as an "attraction" I kind of hope that we are on that train going by a quiet spot during a time of prayer so my girls can see a glimpse of another religion's dedication to prayer (I wish I had that kind of dedication!).....just another learning experience! As well a woman in full burqua (that's not spelled right I'm sure) will be another chance for them to see people exercising their religous freedoms and "doing" what they "believe " in.

I have always been fastinated by how simular the Jewish and Muslim customs are. Some call them the Abrahamic faiths don't they?

I think I've exceded my quotation and bracket limit in this post!

Cheers!

 

[pashari]

This topic is so interesting! Last time we were at WDW, we saw two families and my 13 year old asked, "why are the women/mothers covered, yet the teen daughters are dressed very skimpily". She remarked, almost skimpier than American teens. I thought that was an interesting observation. My daughter asked "do you think they're rebelling?"
Thoughts on this? Just curious if there are rules for the girls in the family? I know I'm probably very naive in this area.

A number of years ago I went on a guided trip to Spain. There was a Muslim mother traveling with her daughter and her niece (they were about 17 years old - the mom was probably in her 40s). As most of the other people on the tour with us (my mom & I went) were senior citizens we hung out alot on the 16 day tour of Spain/Portugal/Morocco. As to head covering, the mom wore one (also long sleeve shirts and pants). I asked the daughters why they did not and they said that it is a Muslim woman's choice to cover her head or not to cover her head and depends on where she is at in her spiritual journey to God.

It was interesting to note that the girls wore shorts and t-shirts in Spain and Portugal but wore long pants and long-sleeved shirts in Morocco. We did swim in a pool at one of the hotels in Morocco and the girls both swam with one piece bathing suits and the mom did sit on the edge of the pool and dip her feet in up to her calfs.

They also said that the storys you hear about men "forcing" their women to do anything usually come from a lower socio-economic class and have less education. That most women who choose to cover up do so of their own free will and actually feel more comfortable with the anonimity it gave them. The mom worked at the university in Cairo Egypt. She was married but her husband had died a number of years ago. The were somewhat affluent.

I guess I just don't want the misperception that if the average american see's a muslim woman with a head covering it isn't a sign of subserviance to a man, but more of their own way of showing their respect for God. After all, Muslim, Christian or Jewish - we are all children of Abraham.

hugs -

lisa

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

slightly OT,
I'm not Muslim, but I'd rather see a muslim woman (or girl) in "full garb" as some put it, than dressed like most Americans showing everything they have (or dont have).
It also saves me an elbo to the rib. My protective wife jabs me in the gut if I even look in the general direction of a scantilly dressed girl.

As far as dress goes, my wife tries to look like a lady everywhere, but she actually dresses more revealing at WDW than at most places, just because (as she puts) "If your gonna undress anyone with your eyes it had better be me".

Still she dresses like most there do; with modest shorts and at worse a sleeveless shirt.

My biggest pet pieve with dress issues isnt as much the way some of these girls and women dress, but rather the way their boyfriends/husbands will stare down other men as if to say "Are you looking at my girl, punk???" I'm thinking if it isnt for sale why are you advertising? Instead of wanting to fight every guy who looks at their girl they should ask their girl to put on some modest clothes. Problem eliminated. If their girl dresses like Christina Aguilera (or whoever) guys WILL look.

 

[Whosemom]

I can see people wondering about the "idols." Done like Disney, they don't bother me at all. But at our local science museum there's this whole search-for-the-clues adventure room (looks like Indiana Jones). They want you to bow to this idol thing to get one of the clues. Clearly fictional, but I found it highly offensive. Again, different, but I can see asking.

 

[KPeveler]

I have always been fastinated by how simular the Jewish and Muslim customs are. Some call them the Abrahamic faiths don't they?

Actually I was a religious studies major in college, focusing on the development and shared traditions of western (i.e. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) religions. there are a lot of shared traditions. i think people need to remember this, that it is not "us and them" but "we"