Question for Catholics

[AC7179]

Okay, I don't mean any disrespect, I'm just ignorant about this aspect of your religion and I was wonderfing if I could get some clarification.

My dd has a friend whose mother shot herself last week.
The funeral was like week.
I was not able to attend.
Another friend said that it was REALLY sad since the girl couldn't be comforted by knowing that her mom was in heaven, since Catholics believe that if you kill yourself you go to hell.
If that is the case, what is said at the funeral? Did they tell the little girl her mother is in hell?
Is this strict Catholic policy, or does it vary among the parishes?
Thanks for the answers!

 

[PrincessPatty]

I am Catholic, but not very knowldgeable, so someone here may have a different answer, from what I understand there are varying levels of how strictly a priest follows the religion. I cannot imagine our priest telling a young girl, or anyone, that her mother was in hell because she committed suicide. Maybe this was a very strict priest, but IMHO thats just cruel, and priests are supposed to be there for the families to help them cope, and in this case, he wasnt.

 

[AC7179]

Thanks.

Let me clarify that I don't know what the priest said.

I was just curious as to policy, I gues.s

 

[PamOKW]

I highly doubt any modern day Catholic priest would say such a thing. It's possible someone in this child's family may have made a remark like that. It is a sin to take your own life. However, the modern church realizes that to take your life you are also sick -- and that illness is not a sin. It used to be that if you committed suicide you didn't have a full funeral, but that also has changed for the same reason -- a recognition of mental illness being a major factor in suicide. Catholicism also believes in Purgatory. If there is something preventing you from entering Heaven, you may spend time here first before entering into Heaven. Very rarely would anyone go "straight to Hell". In act, Hell is rarely mentioned these days. The stress is placed on a forgiving God rather a punishing one.

 

[BuckNaked]

We're Catholic, and my BIL committed suicide almost 12 years ago. DH and I were a bit nervous about what would be said, but the priest was wonderful. He started off the service by saying that he knew there were people in the church that were judging, and that thought they "knew" where my BIL would be...he called on all of us not to judge, as only God knew the suffering, the pain, the agony that BIL had gone through in his life, so only God could judge.

I really think it depends on the priest, and this one was a gem.

 

[Buckalew11]

Not Catholic but I was told this when I was younger also. I questioned it and asked someone when I was a bit older. The unpardonable sin is denying Christ so it was explained to me that even though God wouldn't want you to take your own life and that your faith can carry you through many hard times, that committing suicide wouldn't send you to hell. The relationship that you have with God determines where you spend eternity.

I hope the little girl never hears such a thing. How horrible would that be!

 

[kdibattista]

My father committed suicide when I was 4 and although I did not attend the service, I have heard that the priest was quite respectful. My grandparents, however, are very strict Catholics and I know that it haunts them. I don't think they believe he went to heaven. I do, I have to... I guess that's what helps me get through it.

Prayers to that little girl... she will need them for the rest of her life.

 

[mom2boys]

Unfortanutely I can answer first hand. Almost three years ago the father of one of my sons' friends shot his wife & then committed suicide. He left his four children then ages 5-13 orphans.
They were Catholic with kids in Catholic school. He did this the night before the last day of school for the summer. It was horrible - still is for those kids.
The funeral was horrible. I was actually nausious walking into that church. They actually had a double funeral for them. OF course, many people including the priest had wonderful things to say about the wife. The "man" was a bit more difficult. The priest focused on the good memories the children had of their father and family activities. The father was very involved in cub scouts with his boys. Neither ever missed a scout function. The priest had to ask nine different people before he could find someone who could & would speak kindly of the "man".
You are correct that Catholisism teaches that committing suicide is a mortal (unforgivable) sin and a Christian burial is forbidden. I had a tough time reconciling what I'd been taught all my life with funeral that "man" recieved. In addition to what I'd learned, it seemed to be that a murder victim was sharing her funeral Mass with her own murderer. The Church now teaches that each case is to be determined on it's own (I don't recall at what level the decision is made). I still have to remind myself that it is not my place to judge this man or his funeral service. I do agree that the children had been tramatized enough and will carry enough baggage for the rest of their lives without a fire & brimstone sermon.
BTW - a neighbor, father of 6, committed suicide about 10 yrs ago. Not sure what denomination, but his Christian minister gave the fire & brimstone sermon announcing to the congreation, including the man's children that he would burn in hell for all eternity.

 

[AMcaptured]

Suicide is considered a sin, the taking of any life is sinful in the eyes of the church.

However, if I am not mistaken, it is not only the catholic faith which believes that suicide is a sin in the eyes of God. I believe most doctorines consider it a sin too.

Also, I can't imagine a priest saying it, it was probably a family member. I have found that family members are usually much more judgemental than any person of the cloth.

 

[MelessaG]

This is a bit off topic, but at the funeral of a friend who died while driving drunk (he was 20, if that-we were all so young back then) the preacher actually looked right at his parents and said "I wish I could tell you he was in heaven, but it's a sin to drink so I just can't promise you that." He says this DURING THE SERVICE. I'm glad to hear descriptions of priests who were able to handle similar situations with so much more class and grace. If I hadn't thought it would make the family feel even worse, I would have walked out of the church as soon as the words were spoken. Instead, I kept my seat and seethed for the rest of the funeral. What a thing to tell his grieving parents. (And yes I agree, he shouldn't have been drinking. Fortunately, and sadly, he was the only one killed in the accident. His girlfriend was slightly injured, but also at the funeral. I'm sure she was comforted by those oh-so-loving words too.)

 

[Buckalew11]

This is a bit off topic, but at the funeral of a friend who died while driving drunk (he was 20, if that-we were all so young back then) the preacher actually looked right at his parents and said "I wish I could tell you he was in heaven, but it's a sin to drink so I just can't promise you that." He says this DURING THE SERVICE. I'm glad to hear descriptions of priests who were able to handle similar situations with so much more class and grace. If I hadn't thought it would make the family feel even worse, I would have walked out of the church as soon as the words were spoken. Instead, I kept my seat and seethed for the rest of the funeral. What a thing to tell his grieving parents. (And yes I agree, he shouldn't have been drinking. Fortunately, and sadly, he was the only one killed in the accident. His girlfriend was slightly injured, but also at the funeral. I'm sure she was comforted by those oh-so-loving words too.)

It isn't a sin to drink according to the Bible. It is a sin to get drunk. WAhat that young man did was wrong and there were fatal consequences for him but IMO that preacher couldn't say where that man was for eternity because of the way he died. I don't know how I would have reacted, like you, it would have been hard to sit there, for sure!

 

[AMcaptured]

Catholics don't believe drinking alcohol is a sin. Excessive alcohol is but not casual drinking. What would an Irish funeral or an Italian wedding be without alcohol???

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Jesus died for ALL sin.

When mom gets to heaven, God will say "What sin? All I see is the blood of my Son, Jesus, who died on the cross to completely cleanse ALL sin. Welcome to heaven, my daughter."

Jesus' sacrifice was PERFECT. There is no sin (even if its "mortal" (what nonsense) that is not covered.


(I used to be Catholic, but this stuff about mortal sin and pergatory, etc. made me leave for a Bible church. )

 

[Buckalew11]

Jesus died for ALL sin.

When mom gets to heaven, God will say "What sin? All is see is the blood of my Son, Jesus, who died on the cross to completely cleanse ALL sin. Welcome to heaven, my daughter."

Jesus' sacrifice was PERFECT. There is no sin (even if its "mortal" (what nonsense) that is not covered.


(I used to be Catholic, but this stuff about mortal sin and pergatory, etc. made me leave for a Bible church. )

So, Joe, are you saing you believe that since Jesus died for everyone that everyone goes to heaven when they die? Whether they *believe* or not?

 

[ckmommy]

Jesus died for ALL sin.

When mom gets to heaven, God will say "What sin? All is see is the blood of my Son, Jesus, who died on the cross to completely cleanse ALL sin. Welcome to heaven, my daughter."

Jesus' sacrifice was PERFECT. There is no sin (even if its "mortal" (what nonsense) that is not covered.

Well said!!

 

[barkley]

So, Joe, are you saing you believe that since Jesus died for everyone that everyone goes to heaven when they die? Whether they *believe* or not?

can't speak for joe, but most christian denominations (not catholic) believe that if you don't know and accept christ as your saviour you don't go to heaven. that's why missionary work is done by lots in remote areas of the world (the popular blurb is "so we can give people the opportunity to learn and accept christ so they at least have a chance of going to heaven").
this def. does not mesh with my beliefs, but i get mailers by the dozens from the in-law's church asking for money to support these "soul saving" endeavors.

p.s. i find it interesting that the catholic church believes that choosing to opt out of some technological "life support" options is out and out suicide and therefore a mortal sin (i guess the mental health of a suffering, terminaly ill person who does'nt want to be kept alive by artificial means is'nt worth consideration).

 

[Disney Doll]

So much of what people think they know about Catholicism is based on the pre-Vatican II teachings, and not the more up to date teachings we follow now.

In the case of a tragic death such as a suicide, I think most priests would not dwell on or point out that suicide was a sin, because it is no longer considered a sin in the sense of the word. Most priests and the RC Church recognize the frailty of human mental illness, and what that might cause people to do.

I think God is a forgiving God. I don't think He looks for ways to keep people from Heaven.

 

[goofygirl]

The topic was on Religion & Ethics Weekly not long ago- an interesting read:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week908/feature.html

 

[GarrettJD]

I've been Catholic all my life-- being raised Catholic, you get a very different viewpoint on the faith than someone who comes into the faith as an adult. I sponsored my GF Nikkie when she became Catholic three years ago. We took intensive classes on the church, and everyone was invited to ask any question they had. Our priest teaching the class was open and honest and answered everyone's questions as best as he could. This was important, because there is so much misinformation about the church out there. As best as I understand, here is the modern church's teaching:

For sin to be present, the following two conditions must be met:
1. The person must know the act is a sin, and
2. The person must commit the sin willingly, with intention.

Therefore, suicide may not be (and 99.9% of the time probably is not) a sin, because someone who commits suicide usually has some kind of mental illness that "caused" them to end their life-- therefore, they did not do it willingly, with full intention.

Also, the Catholic church teaches that we can never judge who is in heaven or hell, because we are mere mortals and don't understand everything about an individual's life. The judgement is left up to God-- not us, priests, or even the Pope.

Also, I wanted to clear up a bit about mortal sin. Mortal sin is not "unforgivable". It's not really an action either-- more like a state of being. It simply means that the person has closed themselves off from God. Someone who has commited a mortal sin can turn back to God and be forgiven.

Hopefully this helps a bit. If you have any other questions about the Catholic Church, I'll be glad to answer them. I'm not an expert, but I can always call on my brother (a Catholic youth minister with majors in philosophy and religious studies-- way smarter than me. )

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

So, Joe, are you saing you believe that since Jesus died for everyone that everyone goes to heaven when they die? Whether they *believe* or not?

Yes, they have to believe, that is, accept the gift of salvation (as the Bible states).