question about fishmeat, Lent and Fridays

[oxfordcircus]

I've tried to find the answer to this through Google, but I haven't been able to find the answer. I read an article about the McDonald's Fish Filet sandwich being "invented" for sale on Fridays and during Lent. It made me wonder:

1. Why isn't fish meat?
2. Why Fridays not during Lent?
3. Why Fridays during Lent?
4. Are these things in the Bible?

I don't mean these questions to be disrespectful. I am just curious, because of the article and also because I've recently noticed that my office lunch service serves only catfish on Fridays though few if any of our employees are Catholic.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Lent and the "rules" of lent are not in the Bible (though people will say that the "tradition" comes from the 40 days Jesus spent in solitude). In the Early Church, I believe, Friday was a fast day (meaning no eating), but was later relaxed. I don't know why fish is acceptable. I guess someone who is still Catholic or was in the Catholic church longer than I was will be able to answer your questions.

 

[Crankyshank]

1) fish isn't considered flesh. same line of thinking with vegetarians that only eat fish I guess. Historically speaking, meat was a luxury in the olden days.

2. Why Fridays not during Lent? It's in penance in honor of Jesus dying for our sins.

3. Why Fridays during Lent? It's actually supposed to be Wednesdays and Fridays during Lent, or at all during let if you're really devout. Wednesdays because that's the day of the week Judas betrayed Jesus and Fridays because that was the day Jesus was crucified. Over time it just became Fridays, for the same reason as before.

4. Are these things in the Bible? Technically yes since the crucifixion is in the Bible. Does it say "do not eat meat on Fridays"? No, that's just Church tradition.

 

[bekkiz]

Not a Catholic, but I love Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lent
"The forty day period is symbolic of the forty days spent by Jesus in the wilderness and possibly the forty hours he spent entombed"

"The Lent semi-fast may have originated for practical reasons: during the era of subsistence agriculture in the West as food stored away in the previous autumn was running out, or had to be used up before it went bad in store, and little or no new food-crop was expected soon "
Fish were cheap and plentiful, so it's an easy way to feed yourself

I know that's not a complete answer, but it's a start.

 

[dcgrumpy]

It used to be every Friday, it was changed by Pope Paul VI in 1966

 

[lovemygoofy]

I don't know that I have the answers either but a few things I've learned from my learning to be a Catholic but not ready to convert class

From what I gather and many know the fish symbol is a symbol of Christianity(though I'm still not sure why) and it could be acceptable to eat instead of regular meat.

Eating fish on Wed and Friday is a way of pennance. I know that some that only practice only during Lent but my inlaws practice this throughout the whole year. If you are having lobster that night, I'm pretty sure thats not a pennance.

As for in the Bible or not, I think again it's all about interpretation. Until I started taking this class, I was under the impression that Lent was about sacrificing something from yourself as well as giving something back and we try to practice that in our household.

 

[helenabear]

It used to be every Friday

Technically it should still be done on Friday or some sort of penance should be done weekly.

The idea of abstaining from meat comes from somewhere in Leviticus (I can't recall off the top of my head)

Ash Weds and Good Friday are the only days for fasting. However, I am doing my best to fast the full 40 days of Lent.

The whole idea of giving up something is about being tempted and being able to reject temptation in addition to sacrificing.

Giving up meat a long time ago was consided giving up something special. Fish was everywhere and the others were not (so I have been told).

 

[va32h]

The period of Lent - the time leading up to Easter, is supposed to be a time of penance and reflection. The thing with Fridays comes from, I think the idea that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Actually, I believe Catholics are invited to perform an act of penitence on any Friday, not just Lent.

I remember reading something about the fish aspect being a way to prop up the fishmongers of Rome, who were having some economic troubles. I'll have to try to remember where I read that.

But it's not that they have to eat fish - they are just not supposed to eat "flesh". I have no idea why fish isn't considered meat.

 

[NotUrsula]

The distinction about fish pre-dates Christianity; it goes back to the Jewish dietary laws. Fish are exempt from the rule that says that flesh must not be eaten with blood, thus they are not considered flesh. Also, fish is exempt from the meat/dairy distinction. Of course, Jewish dietary laws specify that it is only a fish if it has fins and scales. Shellfish are not supposed to be eaten at all; but obviously that distinction hasn't carried over.

Remember that the early Church developed in places where fish was a plentiful freely available food that did not require resources to raise. Poverty food. The idea of abstaining from meat represents abstention from luxury foods, which makes eating seafood as an Lenten alternative a very ironic choice in a large part of the U.S. Personally, I think that in certain parts of the US, eating hamburger or dark-meat chicken would hew closer to the original intent of the practice. If you really want to honor the original intent the best method is to simply eat a vegetarian diet on Lenten Fridays.

 

[BethR]

3. Why Fridays during Lent? It's actually supposed to be Wednesdays and Fridays during Lent, or at all during let if you're really devout. Wednesdays because that's the day of the week Judas betrayed Jesus

I think that Judas betrayed Jesus on Thursday evening - the night before He died.

 

[goofygirl]

More on the "jesus fish" symbol:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys


<><

 

[oxfordcircus]

/sarcasm/ Thanks for clearing that up, guys. /sarcasm off/

I'm thinking I don't need to feel any religious pressure to eat catfish this Friday...or Thursday...or Wednesday either.

 

[my4kids]

The distinction about fish pre-dates Christianity; it goes back to the Jewish dietary laws. Fish are exempt from the rule that says that flesh must not be eaten with blood, thus they are not considered flesh. Also, fish is exempt from the meat/dairy distinction. Of course, Jewish dietary laws specify that it is only a fish if it has fins and scales. Shellfish are not supposed to be eaten at all; but obviously that distinction hasn't carried over.

Remember that the early Church developed in places where fish was a plentiful freely available food that did not require resources to raise. Poverty food. The idea of abstaining from meat represents abstention from luxury foods, which makes eating seafood as an Lenten alternative a very ironic choice in a large part of the U.S. Personally, I think that in certain parts of the US, eating hamburger or dark-meat chicken would hew closer to the original intent of the practice. If you really want to honor the original intent the best method is to simply eat a vegetarian diet on Lenten Fridays.

Yes this it exactly what I was going to say! Fish was plentiful and "poverty" food and not at all a luxury. Giving up meat was a sacrifice. My father in law won't eat meat on Fridays but would eat lobster. I think this is wrong. I love sushi but it is a luxury for me so I would not eat it on Fri. during lent. I also would not eat out at a restaurant as that is a luxury as well. To me, eating a hamburger for dinner instead would be a greater sacrifice. I still don't eat meat on Fri. though - I go vegetarian/pasta rice tuna fish ok as that is a sacrifice for me. It takes thought to remember not to eat pepperoni on your pizza ,etc. so it keeps lent and Jesus' sacrifice in your mind all day.

 

[Mamu]

We bend and twist everything to fit our own needs.

Lent is a time of reflection, looking back over the year to find our wrongs in life. Penence correcting our wrongs through prayer and charitable deeds. Fasting, not gorging on fish (this is where we've twisted things) limiting one's food intake to 1 meal a day. No meat allowed.

 

[golfgal]

The fish thing came from long ago in order to increase the profits of some local merchants. It has morphed into the sacrifice aspect which is a good way to spend Lent overall but it's origins are less then Holy. We learned a lot of interesting twists to some of the 'doctrines' of the Catholic Church during our Theology classes in college.

 

[DISUNC]

I've tried to find the answer to this through Google, but I haven't been able to find the answer. I read an article about the McDonald's Fish Filet sandwich being "invented" for sale on Fridays and during Lent. It made me wonder:

1. Why isn't fish meat?
2. Why Fridays not during Lent?
3. Why Fridays during Lent?
4. Are these things in the Bible?

I don't mean these questions to be disrespectful. I am just curious, because of the article and also because I've recently noticed that my office lunch service serves only catfish on Fridays though few if any of our employees are Catholic.

The rule is "You cant eat Meat on Fridays during Lent", it says nothing about you must`eat Fish. Pizza is a HUGE seller on Fridays during lent!!!!

It use to be you couldn't eat Meat on Fridays every week. That was changed to just Lent in the 60's sometime. I was told that meat use to be considered a delicousy. So therefore you couldnt eat it on Friday, therefore that is your penance. Also, I never heard of fasting on any day in the Catholic religon(12 year parochial school here). Nor have I ever fasted. Way back in the olden days (this was changed in the 60's too) One couldnt eat after midnight on Saturday until you had to recieved communion on Sunday. Communion had to be taken on a empty stomach. This is no longer the case.
In my house growing up, Pizza or Pancakes or Tuna or Grilled cheese or spaghetti were the Friday night servings....Still is!

 

[golfgal]

The rule is "You cant eat Meat on Fridays during Lent", it says nothing about you must`eat Fish. Pizza is a HUGE seller on Fridays during lent!!!!

It use to be you couldn't eat Meat on Fridays every week. That was changed to just Lent in the 60's sometime. I was told that meat use to be considered a delicousy. So therefore you couldnt eat it on Friday, therefore that is your penance. Also, I never heard of fasting on any day in the Catholic religon(12 year parochial school here). Nor have I ever fasted. Way back in the olden days (this was changed in the 60's too) One couldnt eat after midnight on Saturday until you had to recieved communion on Sunday. Communion had to be taken on a empty stomach. This is no longer the case.
In my house growing up, Pizza or Pancakes or Tuna or Grilled cheese or spaghetti were the Friday night servings....Still is!

You were never told you were supposed to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday? Weird. Also, fasting isn't totally obstaining from food, basically you are supposed to eat no more then 1 1/2 meals that day. You are also supposed to obstain from eating an hour before Communion, which since most services take almost an hour that is pretty easy to do.

 

[canwegosoon]

Helenabear...good luck on your committment

To clear 1-2 things up re: Lent
1) Fasting technically needs to be only followed by 18 yo-59yo's in good health-and is limited to one simple meal a day(I do soup and 1sl bread). Meatless Fridays are for 14yo's and older. Both of these are traditions(they are not sins if for some reason they could not be followed) that are ment to show sacrifice and a reflection of prayer. Also according to the bible these things should be done with out calling attention(no one should know from your physical apperance you are fasting)
2)Ash Wed and Good Friday are technically the only fasting days.
3) I remember when we were little we had to give up something(personal sacrifice) for lent, as a personal prayer. Then things began to shift and instead of giving up something communities were encouraging acts of kindness or other similar acts(rice bowl, extra prayer time, community service)as a substution. But I know many people who still give up candy for lent.
4)Fridays(every fridays were origionally meatless fridays)...and if many of you look at your school lunches you will see that they still are.

 

[DISUNC]

You were never told you were supposed to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday? Weird.

Never!

 

[Laura]

The period of Lent - the time leading up to Easter, is supposed to be a time of penance and reflection. The thing with Fridays comes from, I think the idea that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Actually, I believe Catholics are invited to perform an act of penitence on any Friday, not just Lent.

I remember reading something about the fish aspect being a way to prop up the fishmongers of Rome, who were having some economic troubles. I'll have to try to remember where I read that.

But it's not that they have to eat fish - they are just not supposed to eat "flesh". I have no idea why fish isn't considered meat.

Well, fish is meat, but this tradition is so old that it's hard to say why some things are eaten and some not. If you read this: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09152a.htm it tells you that there has been more than one custom during Lent of what you can or can't eat.

The canon law simply refers to "meat".

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/canon/c1205-1253.htm

1) fish isn't considered flesh. same line of thinking with vegetarians that only eat fish I guess. Historically speaking, meat was a luxury in the olden days.

People who eat fish are not vegetarians.