Purchasing resale, what happens to contract extensions?

[DeeBee3]

I am a direct owner of Copper Creek, but we have toyed around with adding on resale. If we were to buy one like Boardwalk or Beach club with a 2042 expiration, but Disney offers an extension (like OKW), what happens to resale owners? Do you get the offer for an extension? Or only direct owners. Just thinking about pros/cons if that ever came up.

Thanks!

 

[skippytx]

The OKW extension was a disaster, and BWV and BCV are way too valuable of properties for DVC to offer extensions at. I wouldn't worry about that. The take rate on OKW was like less than 20% I think, and DVC is in a bad situation holding the bag in 20 years on like 80% of the resorts points.

Those properties will get refurbished and resold as brand new resorts at very high prices in another 20 years.

To answer your question directly though, everyone who was an owner was offered the extension. That isn't something that would matter when it comes to direct/resale.

 

[hglenn]

The OKW extension was a disaster, and BWV and BCV are way too valuable of properties for DVC to offer extensions at. I wouldn't worry about that. The take rate on OKW was like less than 20% I think, and DVC is in a bad situation holding the bag in 20 years on like 80% of the resorts points.

Those properties will get refurbished and resold as brand new resorts at very high prices in another 20 years.

To answer your question directly though, everyone who was an owner was offered the extension. That isn't something that would matter when it comes to direct/resale.

I completely hear you regarding the OKW extension... I've heard that repeatedly on here... However, that said, do you think that there will be absolutely zero "renewal" incentives for current owners? I just cannot understand how they will be able to justify having 5 resorts go from "sold out" to "brand new" over night and having all of those points to resell... I'm a new BWV owner and I know that it's certainly a possibility and I'm ok with it - however, obviously, I'm hoping there will be something offered to existing owners to continue the relationship..... Would love to hear "possibilities".

 

[Sandisw]

In a true extension, like OKW, the ground lease is extended, meaning it applied to everyone. There is no way to offer to some and not others in that situation. But, chances of that happening, are pretty slim.

Now, could they decide to give owners at the resort first chance to buy points at whatever new resorts will replace it? Sure. Could they make that resale vs. direct? Probably.

If DVD decides to continue to have those locations in the DVC mix, it makes the best sense and the most profitable for them to redevelop and sell as new. And, I think if they were going to lean this way, they would have decided by now.

 

[hglenn]

In a true extension, like OKW, the ground lease is extended, meaning it applied to everyone. There is no way to offer to some and not others in that situation. But, chances of that happening, are pretty slim.

Now, could they decide to give owners at the resort first chance to buy points at whatever new resorts will replace it? Sure. Could they make that resale vs. direct? Probably.

If DVD decides to continue to have those locations in the DVC mix, it makes the best sense and the most profitable for them to redevelop and sell as new. And, I think if they were going to lean this way, they would have decided by now.

Perhaps that explains some of the recent aggressive ROFR buy-backs for those resorts? Maybe they do already know what they're doing..... but will likely change with every leadership iteration.....

 

[Sandisw]

Perhaps that explains some of the recent aggressive ROFR buy-backs for those resorts? Maybe they do already know what they're doing..... but will likely change with every leadership iteration.....

I don't think the buying back would be because of any sort of extension because I am not sure how it would benefit them to own more points. I think when DVD does things like it does with ROFR its just to keep people guessing, and maybe to take enough to raise the market price so that people will buy direct instead at the new resorts.

Why buy BCV at $160 when you can get RIV or VGF for not a lot more and end up with an extra 20 plus years of ownership? There were just too many problems with the extension for it to make sense to offer and IMO, the big one is the points chart...they could not adjust it if its an extension. Only if it becomes a new resort.

 

[hglenn]

I don't think the buying back would be because of any sort of extension because I am not sure how it would benefit them to own more points. I think when DVD does things like it does with ROFR its just to keep people guessing, and maybe to take enough to raise the market price so that people will buy direct instead at the new resorts.

Why buy BCV at $160 when you can get RIV or VGF for not a lot more and end up with an extra 20 plus years of ownership? There were just too many problems with the extension for it to make sense to offer and IMO, the big one is the points chart...they could not adjust it if its an extension. Only if it becomes a new resort.

Ah! Yes, that makes total sense... the point charts have to be a very good opportunity for them to modify those - and, based on location, a desirable change...

 

[dvc lover 1970]

DVC will never offer an extension on bwv or bcv. They will happily reclaim them in 2042, refurbished them and resell them with a ridiculously high point chart and price. RIV will then become the value deal of the epcot resorts.

 

[sndral]

My speculation is that DVC will continue to operate OKW as is for the additional 15 years of the extensions to 2057. Any deed they ROFR/foreclose on & then resell as direct has the 2057 end date so w/ the original owners who opted to extend & the subsequent direct sales 25%+ of OKW is now extended contracts. How they’ll handle owning over half of OKW for 15 years I don’t know. https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...option-rate-of-okw-15-year-contract-extension
To me it’s telling that since 2007 when they offered OKW owners extensions they have not made the offer to owners at any other 2042 resort.
I can see them selling to 3rd parties the non WDW resorts, razing the 2 smaller WDW resorts - BCVs & BRVs. I suspect BWVs will close for a big 3-5 year refurb & then w/ it’s prime location walkable to DHS & Epcot it’ll go on sale for new buyers w/ a new 50 year lease, name & higher point charts.

 

[wnielsen1]

I can see them selling to 3rd parties the non WDW resorts, razing the 2 smaller WDW resorts - BCVs & BRVs. I suspect BWVs will close for a big 3-5 year refurb & then w/ it’s prime location walkable to DHS & Epcot it’ll go on sale for new buyers w/ a new 50 year lease, name & higher point charts.

I don't think they will raze BRV. If there is one resort perfect for an extension it is that one. Either that or roll it into CCV by selling shorter term contracts that line up with CCV's expiration date. No matter what they decide it will be fascinating to watch.

 

[sndral]

I don't think they will raze BRV. If there is one resort perfect for an extension it is that one. Either that or roll it into CCV by selling shorter term contracts that line up with CCV's expiration date. No matter what they decide it will be fascinating to watch.

At BRV I guess they could do an addition to CCV like they did when they added the treehouses to SSR. CCV ends in 2068, so there’ll be 26 years left in 2042 for any converted BRV points.
I think they’ll ultimately offer something DVC at BC/YC, although to me it makes sense that they’ll initially focus on the behemoth that will be all those new BWV points.

 

[DeeBee3]

Very interesting to read all the feedback. We really love the location of BC or BW so if were to do an add-on it would most likely be those 2. We don't have to add on anywhere, but we like the boardwalk area and Epcot is our favorite park. I was just looking around and seeing what's for sale.

It's interesting to me to think Disney wouldn't offer something to the 2042 resorts. Seems a far way off, but really right around the corner. I know it doesn't seem like they care about customer service right now, but to take all the contracts and then go resell them would really put the icing on the cake.

 

[Sandisw]

Very interesting to read all the feedback. We really love the location of BC or BW so if were to do an add-on it would most likely be those 2. We don't have to add on anywhere, but we like the boardwalk area and Epcot is our favorite park. I was just looking around and seeing what's for sale.

It's interesting to me to think Disney wouldn't offer something to the 2042 resorts. Seems a far way off, but really right around the corner. I know it doesn't seem like they care about customer service right now, but to take all the contracts and then go resell them would really put the icing on the cake.

It is not DVD taking them in 2042. The contract ends and those resorts cease to exist.

Any future sales would be new resorts.

 

[RoseGold]

It's interesting to me to think Disney wouldn't offer something to the 2042 resorts. Seems a far way off, but really right around the corner. I know it doesn't seem like they care about customer service right now, but to take all the contracts and then go resell them would really put the icing on the cake.

Nothing to do with customer service. OKW was a cluster. Even on these boards, there were lawyers involved, and Disney backed down on their position, which is rare. They had a low take, and they made a legal pickle. Who knows what will happen?

Besides, why would Disney offer a cheap extension for a few bucks with an aging property and a retro chart? If they don't completely bulldoze BC/BW, they will slap some paint on them and rewrite the chart.

But to answer your actual question, messing with the terms of the ground lease would impact all owners, resale and direct.

It's possible they could offer some special deal for BC2 to BC owners, and I guess that could single out direct -- if there are even any direct BC owners left by then. But DVC didn't do that for VGF2 or any of the other extensions, like the treehouses. They offered the same discount to all members.

 

[hglenn]

It is not DVD taking them in 2042. The contract ends and those resorts cease to exist.

Any future sales would be new resorts.

Right, but the infrastructure is still there and on property so, technically, it's them taking back full ownership of the facilities and grounds... I suppose they can do with it whatever they want at that point... is that what you're saying? even completely repurposing the property into something different?

 

[NorCalDisFan]

Some refurbishments without development from the ground and then reselling new contracts will make lots of profit to DVD. Why they're not choosing the easiest way to make money?

 

[sndral]

…
Besides, why would Disney offer a cheap extension for a few bucks with an aging property and a retro chart? If they don't completely bulldoze BC/BW, they will slap some paint on them and rewrite the chart.
…

Disney does tear down to build new or re-theme. For years my family would stay in the small but lovely Oriental gardens section of the DL hotel - then they tore that down & rebuilt the whole area. More recently Disney tore down several CBR buildings to build the Riviera Tower. They are currently tearing down a lot of Epcot. Rides are redone - Maelstrom became Frozen, Energy is becoming GOTG, the movie ride became Micky’s runaway railway, etc.. No reason they won’t recycle DVC resorts too.

 

[RoseGold]

Disney does tear down to build new or re-theme. For years my family would stay in the small but lovely Oriental gardens section of the DL hotel - then they tore that down & rebuilt the whole area. More recently Disney tore down several CBR buildings to build the Riviera Tower. They are currently tearing down a lot of Epcot. Rides are redone - Maelstrom became Frozen, Energy is becoming GOTG, the movie ride became Micky’s runaway railway, etc.. No reason they won’t recycle DVC resorts too.

Of course. BC/BW are in prime location with retro charts. They might be recycled, but they won't be extended. I think at least one of them will get torn down for something bigger. The location is too good, and they will be really retro by then.

 

[hglenn]

Of course. BC/BW are in prime location with retro charts. They might be recycled, but they won't be extended. I think at least one of them will get torn down for something bigger. The location is too good, and they will be really retro by then.

Yeap, I can totally see this now.... makes sense. Ok, so I've got 20 years to build up my point bank somewhere else while getting to enjoy BWV until then....

 

[RoseGold]

Yeap, I can totally see this now.... makes sense. Ok, so I've got 20 years to build up my point bank somewhere else while getting to enjoy BWV until then....

Maybe. Or maybe the Yacht Club flip is coming soon!