Pros and Cons of Full Day Kindergarten please

[MichelleVW]

I'm sure this has been talked about a thousand times over on the DIS, but my district is proposing full day kindergarten and I am looking for opinions and insights on this. Personally right now, I'm not for it. The only pro I see to it would be daycare reasons (and not everyone is looking for that.) I know kindergarten is far more academic than when I was a kid, but my kids' teachers still got it done in half a day. Anyone else's observations are welcome. I'll be going to the board of ed meeting this week where they will be discussing this.

I had one in full day and one in half day and the full day was a million times better in my opinion. The full day had the same curriculum as the 1/2 day did, just more time to do it in. The one in full day got to do a lot more interesting things since there was more time in the day. I used to volunteer in the 1/2 day Kindergarten and it was crazy rushed, I got tired seeing all the stuff that poor teacher had to cram in such a few short hours.

Con: 5 year old away from mother for 8 hours straight

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This doesn't come in play for most people since their aren't that many stay at home moms.

Pros, they are gone ALL DAY!

Cons, they won't go to bed until 9 due to naptime.

There's not really a nap time in kindergarten, and besides, I don't think kids need to go to bed much before 9 anyway.

 

[kinntj]

Our district has 3 full day kindergarten classrooms and 3 half day classrooms. Parents can request the full day and if there's more requests than spots (78), they do a drawing and twins are automatically in if one gets picked.

We didn't request full day because I stay home and my DD didn't need the extra time in math or reading.

As far as I see, the curriculum doesn't change from half day to full day. Both classes are learning the exact same things each day, but the full day has more time on the reading (very good for struggling kids) and may spend more time on the math lesson. They do more projects that relate to the theme of the week than the half day kids.

Going from 1/2 day K to full day first wasn't that big of a deal. They have a whole summer of different schedules in between anyway. My dd was use to the full day schedule after two weeks.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

My DD was one of the last years in our county to go to half-day K. She also was never in a mixed-grade classroom, even though her school went to mixed-grade classrooms in the early grades (before 3rd Grade when the state testing really started). There was only one class (out of 4 in her grade) at the school that was single-grade.

She is graduating HS with Honors and with a 4.3 average. She was accepted at the 5 colleges she applied to (including a Public Ivy), getting scholarships to 4 of them. So I think she did ok.

YMMV and that's cool too.
agnes!

I understand your point, and think it's valid, but also remember that education continues to evolve. The Ivies have been around for hundreds of years (well, except for Cornell, the Johnny-Come-Lately of the Ivies) and have been filling their classes for that time with the best and brightest of high school graduates. A hundred years ago most of their students didn't even go to kindergarten, as no such thing existed, and their students today most likely went to half day kindergartens, as those were the norm when today's 18 year olds were 5 years old and starting school.

The issue is that the half day kids who are in kindergarten today will be competing against the kids who go to a full day program, and therefore the half day kids will be behind from the start. Many will catch up and many will pass their full-day compatriots, because water finds its own level, but if you take two children of similar intellectual capacity and expose one to a greater amount of a quality education and expose the second to a lesser amount of the same quality education, how is it possibly better for the child who receives less?

I went to a half day kindergarten, too, as that is what was offered when I was that age. I went on to private grammar school, a prep school, and then graduated from most people's idea of the "top Ivy" and then picked up a couple of advanced degrees from the same University and a different university, but that doesn't mean that I would not have benefited from even more kindergarten.

I guess I am confused by this logic. You could do away with every grade using this logic. "The real ones who benefit from high school are college professors because the students know how to read and write papers". It's ignoring the fact that students who enter college, or first grade or whatever, more prepared tend to leave more prepared, which benefits the students, and benefits the society they'll be living in and working in.

Exactly correct, in my opinion. Very well stated!

There's not really a nap time in kindergarten, and besides, I don't think kids need to go to bed much before 9 anyway.

FWIW, they do have rest time in my district's kindergarten program. Most of the children do not actually sleep, but they relax for thirty minutes after lunch. My DD6 was upset because this was one of the time blocks that they used for pull-out enrichment in her class, so she lost her rest time when she was pulled out for the TAG program.

 

[MichelleVW]

FWIW, they do have rest time in my district's kindergarten program. Most of the children do not actually sleep, but they relax for thirty minutes after lunch. My DD6 was upset because this was one of the time blocks that they used for pull-out enrichment in her class, so she lost her rest time when she was pulled out for the TAG program.

Yeah, my DD actually had a rest time too, but it was hardly naptime and very rarely did any of the kids actually sleep.

 

[jodifla]

Our district has gone to full day now, but with my DS, it was either half-day for free or you paid for the full day K.

We opted to pay, and are very glad we did. Half day isn't half day, it's more like 2.5 hours, you got there at 9 and left at 11:30! Our son also has a language disability, so having him there the extra hours was key for him...gave him time for pullouts and extra attention.

 

[tiggger1]

Full day kindergarten here. I like because the kids get more time to do stuff. It's not rushed. The class I volunteer in this year is great. They have about 20 minutes of free play in the morning, and then they have have centers ( usually a math center, a writing center, a game center and a reading center)Then they go to a 45 minute class either art,music, gym, computer. When they come back they finish the centers and then learn something new and then go to lunch/Recess. After recess, they do some more work, have more free play and then snack and go home.

 

[The Pink Cupcake]

This doesn't come in play for most people since their aren't that many stay at home moms.

I know plenty of SAHMs According to the 2009 census there are 5.1 million SAHMs. Yes. Most moms work, but there is a chunk that choose to stay home. But, we were rarely home

But I see your point. If your child is at daycare all day anyway, a full day of Kindergarten is not a big deal. But, believe me, for a SAHM it is huge!

Again, my goal was to be home with my child and teach them as much as possible. They were never behind and always ahead. Full day kindergarten would not have made a difference for them.

It is a personal choice with so many factors involved.

 

[MichelleVW]

I know plenty of SAHMs According to the 2009 census there are 5.1 million SAHMs. Yes. Most moms work, but there is a chunk that choose to stay home. But, we were rarely home

But I see your point. If your child is at daycare all day anyway, a full day of Kindergarten is not a big deal. But, believe me, for a SAHM it is huge!

Again, my goal was to be home with my child and teach them as much as possible. They were never behind and always ahead. Full day kindergarten would not have made a difference for them.

It is a personal choice with so many factors involved.

It may be a big deal for you, but you can't really speak for all the Stay at home mom's. I was a working mom from the time my girls were born, but if I had stayed home, I wouldn't have had a problem with full day kindergarten. I personally think it's a much better option than a measly 2 1/2 hour day.

 

[torinsmom]

I teach preK/K and I cannot imagine teaching what we need to teach if the kids were 1/2 day. We have K kids come in not knowing a single letter sound. We have kids that don't recognize number 1-5. We have kids that have never picked up a pencil. Yes, some of these are from low income homes, which is probably not any of you here, but we have also had the kids of college educated stay at home moms come in the same position. Some don't know how to change their clothing on their own if they have an accident. Some have never been told no, or even been away from mom and dad for more than an hour.

These kids are supposed to be reading at a level 6 independently by the end of the year, no matter how they start. Just an example of a level 6 book...

"Where is my hat?" said Ben. Ben looked under his bed. "It is not here", he said.

So, kids need to learn letter sounds, how to blend those sounds, sight words, etc. They also need to learn grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. They need to be able to write 2-3 sentences to a prompt.

In math, kids are expected to know(recognize, read and write) numbers 1-30, 2D and 3D shapes, days of the week, months of the year, seasons, patterns, time, positions, addition and subtraction facts, graphing, sorting, beginning measurement, ordinal numbers, etc.

We have standards we have to meet in science and social studies as well, of course. And don't get me started on teaching social skills and how to work in a group. The kids who have never been to daycare/preschool don't understand how to sit on the circle, how to raise their hand to speak, how to stand in a line, etc. That stuff takes weeks for us to teach.

I think it's crazy that a parent would think we have time to teach a child to tie their shoes. That is something a parent should be doing. I think until they teach them, they should send them in shoes they can handle themselves(velcro, slip-ons or other non-tie shoes). I can't tell you how many pairs of shoes I tie each day.

I also see a big difference in my kids who are with me during preK. They are so much more prepared for K. All 8 of my preK's(who will be my K's next year) know most of their letter sounds and 5 are reading. They all know 1-10 and 3 know 1-100 and are doing addition. The 5 readers can write to a prompt as well. And yes, they had lots of time to play too.

All this being said, if full day K is all that is offered and you want 1/2 day, K is optional in most states. You can use your state's standard course of study and teach your child yourself for the K year.

 

[The Pink Cupcake]

It may be a big deal for you, but you can't really speak for all the Stay at home mom's. I was a working mom from the time my girls were born, but if I had stayed home, I wouldn't have had a problem with full day kindergarten. I personally think it's a much better option than a measly 2 1/2 hour day.

My children got more than a measly 2 1/2 hours day With me Loved teaching them to read. Loved teaching them their math skills. Loved going to museums and science centers and nature walks. Loved them being with me

We are academically driven in this home. Full day kindergarten still did nothing for us.

I have no problem with full day. It was just not a good match for our family.

 

[The Pink Cupcake]

And don't get me started on teaching social skills and how to work in a group. The kids who have never been to daycare/preschool don't understand how to sit on the circle, how to raise their hand to speak, how to stand in a line, etc. That stuff takes weeks for us to teach.

Mine did just fine Again, it's what is being done at home. Some people stay home and do nothing. That is sad.

I would be mortified if a kindergarten teacher had to teach my child how to tie their shoe Although, that still means nothing. My best friend's son couldn't tie his shoes until second grade and is now a pediatric neurologist. I am sure his kindergarten teacher is still tsking her tounge over him not being able to tie his shoes, but life is ok for him now

 

[torinsmom]

Forgot to say in my post that we do have rest time for the first few months. It is 20 -30 minutes for those who do not fall asleep, and 1 hour for those who do.

 

[MichelleVW]

My children got more than a measly 2 1/2 hours day With me Loved teaching them to read. Loved teaching them their math skills. Loved going to museums and science centers and nature walks. Loved them being with me

We are academically driven in this home. Full day kindergarten still did nothing for us.

I have no problem with full day. It was just not a good match for our family.

You are the exception. I'm retired Air Force who now works in a daycare for fun. Most of these kids are there from sun up to sun down and the parents expect US to teach them things...they are too busy to be bothered.

 

[The Pink Cupcake]

Most of these kids are there from sun up to sun down and the parents expect US to teach them things...they are too busy to be bothered.

That is heartbreaking. Why even have children

 

[mjkacmom]

I know plenty of SAHMs According to the 2009 census there are 5.1 million SAHMs. Yes. Most moms work, but there is a chunk that choose to stay home. But, we were rarely home

But I see your point. If your child is at daycare all day anyway, a full day of Kindergarten is not a big deal. But, believe me, for a SAHM it is huge!

Again, my goal was to be home with my child and teach them as much as possible. They were never behind and always ahead. Full day kindergarten would not have made a difference for them.

It is a personal choice with so many factors involved.

As a SAHM, I wanted full day, but it wasn't offered. When my twins were born, I put ds in aftercare 3 days a week (he begged for 5), because we weren't as mobile as I would've liked (and I put a 2 year old in preschool for the same reason). Heck, all of my kids were reading and doing addition and subtraction before kindergarten. However, in spite of several playgroups, mommy and me classes, parks, walks, and outings, my kids LOVED the socialization of school.

 

[MichelleVW]

That is heartbreaking. Why even have children

I agree....we say the same thing every day at work. But at least it's a super nice daycare and the kids get lots of love every day from us!

 

[ReneeA]

I live in a district where there is still a choice. There used to be one half day kindergarten class and 2 full day classes in all 4 elementary schools in our district. Then it dropped to only 2 half day classes for all 4 schools, and now it's down to one half day class offered for all 4 schools. Even then, it's a small class with only about 15 kids in it since it doesn't seem to be a popular choice now.

My oldest is almost 10, and he went through the half day k class. Honestly, I put him in it because he was an Oct. baby and started when he was 4. I didn't think he was ready for all day, and I figured we'd hold him back and put him in the all day class the next year. He did fine academically, and we moved him ahead. He's still the youngest in his class...and struggles at times socially. It also takes him a little longer to pick up new concepts...but I think that's a personality thing rather than an education thing.

My DD went to the full day class. She was more than ready to go all day, and did fabulously. However, she was one who gave up naps by 19 months and really enjoyed preschool. School comes really easy to her (possibly too easy - she does seem to get bored at times).

What the teachers are saying is that the half day k kids as a whole score a little lower on the first set of state exams, and that they struggle with the long day in 1st grade. They do catch up eventually later in the elementary program, but that it's sometimes a struggle for them.

 

[momrek06]

The public school in town was 1/2 day but we sent the kiddos to the catholic elementary school and it was full day K.

Youngest DS' birthday is 12/30 … our town said the 'cut off' was 12/31. I did NOT think he would be ready for a full day K at 4.5yo. I choose to keep him in nursery school for one more year. He went to K at 5.5yo. BEST DECISION I EVER MADE. When he got to K, the kiddos were the 4yo's that would turn 5 by 12/31, there were 5yo's and then the 5.5yo's like my DS whose parents keep them out an extra year. It was quite the mix.

Now that being said many parents whose kiddos (like mine) would be on the younger side until 12/31, sent their kiddos to K at the public school (for ONE year) and not pay any (nursery school) fees THEN have them repeat K at the catholic school.

I just kept Mike at nursery school where he was very comfortable instead of going from nursery school, to public for one year and then to catholic to REPEAT that K year.

At the full day K, the kiddos napped after lunch UNTIL after Christmas break. After Christmas break there was no more napping. If your K did not want to nap, they did not have to, they could do some quiet work, coloring etc at their desk. My DS napped. But come Jan, he was 6yo and now ready for a full day of K.

I will say, the younger kiddos did struggle both academically and socially. Some parents pulled their kiddos out ESP if they were NOT 5yo when they started. There is just something 'magical' about that 5 year mark where the kids just seem to be the perfect age to start school. Any younger …

But times have changed, my DS is now 25yo and in law school so its been a while since I had anyone in K.

 

[grafxgirl]

Kindergarten is definitely not the same as it was when I grew up. I was a substitute teacher for a few years before I began teaching preschool full-time so I've had quite a bit of experience in seeing what goes on. Full day is a good thing because it is more structured, there are actual lessons and reading groups going on through the day. Even the all day preschool I teach is like this. Many kids are used to being away from home all day anyway because they've spent their time in daycare.

 

[bethy]

Nope, I feel the same way. Half day works best for my kids.

Put me in this camp. Luckily half day K is still an option in our schools. I spend a lot of time volunteering in our school and by third grade you cannot even remotely tell the difference between which kids went to full and half day K. Or even between the kids who went to all day Pre K (private b/c our district doesn't do public Pre-K) and those who went to traditional Pre-K for half days two or three times per week.

In our state, the only districts that have full-day-only K are the ones with lower socio-economic levels. In those districts, Full Day K apparently has a more siginificant impact on long-term student outcomes.

I agree that kids have the rest of their lives to go to school full time and then work full time. One more year spending a little more time with family can only have a positive impact on most kids. I am my child's first and most important teacher.