Proof that vaccination works...

[golfgal]

I'm not saying it's pointless - I'm just questioning why THIS disease, when there are many others which cause far greater distress, inconvenience, death etc. to a far wider-ranging spectrum of people. In short, it seems odd that you'd develop a vaccination for something that is "relatively" harmless and occurs usually once in most people during childhood. Even developing a vaccination for a mild cold would receive greater benefits for parents and child in terms of lost time in education & employment.

That said, I come from a country where all healthcare is paid for centrally, and also where caring for your sick child doesn't result in any direct penalty to you (i.e. you can have a certain degree paid time off work without using vacation time or losing pay).

The problem is that there are 1000's of viruses that cause the "common cold" and it would be pretty much next to impossible with current technology to create a vaccine for each and every one of those--and not cost effective and who in the heck wants 1000 shots?

Chicken Pox is caused by ONE virus.

You still pay for your healthcare, just in a different way. Most people in the US have paid time off, vacation time, sick days, etc.

50,000 hospital admissions in 6 years is less than 10,000 a year.
There are an average of 3.5 million cases a year.
That's a hospitalisation percentage of 0.23%, and a mortality rate of 0.002%
It's tiny.

(For comparison, your chance of being murdered in 2009 was twice that of being killed by chicken pox... and that's assuming you even contracted chicken pox in 2009 - otherwise it's 7000 times more likely that you'll be killed in a homicide each year than you will be by chicken pox)

Can't really vaccinate for murder though.

I agree, of the childhood illnesses, Chicken Pox is probably the most mild, but it is still a LOT less expensive to vaccinate people then it is to pay for the cost of hospitalizations, even for the very small percent of people that end up in the hospital compared to everyone that gets the vaccine.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Each vaccine costs something like $84, let's say $80 to round it down.
There are about 4 million kids born in the USA every year.
To vaccinate them all therefore costs $336 million, per year.
Granted, not a lot when spread over a nation - but can you think of how else $336 million could be used?
You could use it to research far more vicious diseases, to buy resources for school (can you imagine if each class of 25 Kindergarteners had an extra $2000 to spend on resources?) or even donate it to the developing world to help them out?
(The malaria vaccine that GSK have developed will cost $500 million - that's less than 2 years worth of chicken pox vaccines...)

You don't have to agree with me, but the above would all make me uneasy about the whole thing.

Well yeah, and let's look at all the money that is spent at Disney? Couldn't all of that money have been better spent solving world hunger?

 

[Bonnie151]

I'm extremely pro-vaccination (DD had measles just before she was due to get the MMR and that was horrendous!), but I just can't get overly excited about the chickenpox vax. I've never had the chicken pox but have built up a natural immunity to it, and both my kids have had chicken pox. However, even if that weren't the case, I can't see me rushing to get the kids vaxed if it were rolled out here. I don't know why I feel this way given that I'm usually on my high horse about vaccinations.

 

[DVCLiz]

I'm extremely pro-vaccination (DD had measles just before she was due to get the MMR and that was horrendous!), but I just can't get overly excited about the chickenpox vax. I've never had the chicken pox but have built up a natural immunity to it, and both my kids have had chicken pox. However, even if that weren't the case, I can't see me rushing to get the kids vaxed if it were rolled out here. I don't know why I feel this way given that I'm usually on my high horse about vaccinations.

I'm asking sincerely, is this possible? I would think it was more a case of your just not ever having been exposed to the degree that you would catch them. Is it possible to just spontaneously develop immunity?

 

[DVCLiz]

Each vaccine costs something like $84, let's say $80 to round it down.
There are about 4 million kids born in the USA every year.
To vaccinate them all therefore costs $336 million, per year.
Granted, not a lot when spread over a nation - but can you think of how else $336 million could be used?
You could use it to research far more vicious diseases, to buy resources for school (can you imagine if each class of 25 Kindergarteners had an extra $2000 to spend on resources?) or even donate it to the developing world to help them out?
(The malaria vaccine that GSK have developed will cost $500 million - that's less than 2 years worth of chicken pox vaccines...)

You don't have to agree with me, but the above would all make me uneasy about the whole thing.

Thank God we don't make decisions based on this kind of thinking. Really, you'd rather buy construction paper and glue for kindergartners than save lives?

Your thinking seems to be that the money could be better spent elsewhere, so if some kids have to die in the process...oh, well, so be it. That is mind-boggling to me. Vaccines for infectious and sometimes fatal diseases should always come ahead of other spending, in my opinion.

 

[punkin]

I'm asking sincerely, is this possible? I would think it was more a case of your just not ever having been exposed to the degree that you would catch them. Is it possible to just spontaneously develop immunity?

I don't know. DH (before we were married) got the chicken pox. The rash came out while he was visiting me. I have never had it and did not catch it then (if you know anything about 20 and 21 year olds, you know that I was exposed PLENTY!!!). As soon as my mother saw the rash, she kicked him out of the house and made him wait outside until his mother came to pick him up. His brother (who had the chicken pox as a child-documented) did catch it and had an absolutely horrible case that required hospitalization. So I think it affects different people differently. I still have never had it. One of my DD's is immunized against it and the other is not (difference in school requirements).

 

[TheIncredibles!]

Each vaccine costs something like $84, let's say $80 to round it down.
There are about 4 million kids born in the USA every year.
To vaccinate them all therefore costs $336 million, per year.
Granted, not a lot when spread over a nation - but can you think of how else $336 million could be used?
You could use it to research far more vicious diseases, to buy resources for school (can you imagine if each class of 25 Kindergarteners had an extra $2000 to spend on resources?) or even donate it to the developing world to help them out? (The malaria vaccine that GSK have developed will cost $500 million - that's less than 2 years worth of chicken pox vaccines...)

You don't have to agree with me, but the above would all make me uneasy about the whole thing.

Exactly how much money should we as a nation spend on other people before we can start spending it on ourselves?

 

[jodifla]

You seem to be assuming vaccines for those other disease aren't available because scientists chose to prevent chickenpox instead, but that's not the case. I'm sure people are working constantly on a vaccine for the common cold. They just haven't been able to come up with one.



Yeah, if you lived in the U.S. you might have a better idea of how chickenpox can impact the life of a working parent.

Boy, isn't this the truth! I was out of school for 10 days with the chicken pox. If I'd had lots of brothers or sisters and exposed them as well, it could have rolled through the family, causing someone to need to be home for several weeks.

Back in the 70s, this wasn't a huge deal. By and large, moms were home, and you could be absent something like 23 days a semester before there were any consequences. Now, how exactly would a working parent stay home for weeks?

Overall, the fact the children aren't fighting off measles, mumps, whopping cough, chicken pox....makes it possible for two-income families.

 

[deegack]

Each vaccine costs something like $84, let's say $80 to round it down.
There are about 4 million kids born in the USA every year.
To vaccinate them all therefore costs $336 million, per year.
Granted, not a lot when spread over a nation - but can you think of how else $336 million could be used?
You could use it to research far more vicious diseases, to buy resources for school (can you imagine if each class of 25 Kindergarteners had an extra $2000 to spend on resources?) or even donate it to the developing world to help them out?
(The malaria vaccine that GSK have developed will cost $500 million - that's less than 2 years worth of chicken pox vaccines...)

You don't have to agree with me, but the above would all make me uneasy about the whole thing.

Well the war in Iraq is going to cost over at trillion (yes with a T) dollars by the time it ends and we pay for the health care costs of the injured veterans. (CBO figures) Considering no one has really been able to give a good reason why we actually are there, imagine the amt of construction paper and glue the kindergarten class could buy.

BTW my BFF growing up almost died from complications of chicken pox. He ended up in icu for 6 weeks and had last rites at one point. So I consider the $86 I paid (or my insurance company paid) for my daughters chicken pox vaccine to be worth it.

 

[Nette]

The problem is that there are 1000's of viruses that cause the "common cold" and it would be pretty much next to impossible with current technology to create a vaccine for each and every one of those--and not cost effective and who in the heck wants 1000 shots?

Chicken Pox is caused by ONE virus.

You still pay for your healthcare, just in a different way. Most people in the US have paid time off, vacation time, sick days, etc.



Can't really vaccinate for murder though.

I agree, of the childhood illnesses, Chicken Pox is probably the most mild, but it is still a LOT less expensive to vaccinate people then it is to pay for the cost of hospitalizations, even for the very small percent of people that end up in the hospital compared to everyone that gets the vaccine.

And that virus isn't the same one as in the vaccine. If you read papers about studies about the varicella vaccine, they call the "normal" chicken pox (not in the vaccine) "wild varicella" and the vaccine strain is named for the company that makes the vaccine. So you can (and some people do) still get CP even if you're vaccinated.

I'm asking sincerely, is this possible? I would think it was more a case of your just not ever having been exposed to the degree that you would catch them. Is it possible to just spontaneously develop immunity?

Yes. Both my mother and grandmother as well as one of my brothers never had chicken pox and it wasn't for lack of exposure. I, on the other hand, got them twice. I always say I got my brother's case for him.

 

[scrapquitler]

Your childhood doctor may have been like mine and decided to play the odds that it would get taken off the required list before you started school.

I actually called my mother to ask her because I find this idea intriguing. Mom says that she can't imagine that the family doctor we had then would have NOT done any vaccine, but that she doesn't specifically remember me having the smallpox vaccine, so she assumes that I must have had it and just not gotten the scar from it. My brother was born in 1969, and he has the scar. It's very unlikely that one of us would have had it and not the other.

 

[C.Ann]

Exactly how much money should we as a nation spend on other people before we can start spending it on ourselves?

Very good point..

 

[YodaGirl]

Some have mentioned (or implied) that not enough children die from chicken pox to warrant the vaccine. I truly don't understand that. To me, one child dying from a preventable vaccine is too many. Heck, ask the parent of a child who has died whether or not (s)he feels that the vaccine is necessary.

Even if death wasn't possible, don't you (general you) want to prevent your child from suffering when possible? There are so many things that, as parents, are just beyond our control. I can't imagine watching my child go through something like chicken pox all the while knowing that I could have prevented his/her suffering.

 

[kellyg403]

I am provaccine. I was not really crazy abou the CP one though. After having a discussion with my pediatrician, we discussed that boosters are going to be very important as the vaccine would probably not be efective while many people would be going through their childbearing years. How many struggling 19 yo are going to get the booster? Being pregnant with cp is not good. Becoming strerile from cp not good.

My yds was one of the first groups of kids that had to have the vaccine. His older brother was immuno compromised so he was not fully vaccinated and did not get the shot. Yds got a rash that his dr could not figure out, turned out to be shingles. He was 10 and never had the chicken pox. Poor kid was in misery. 3 weeks later his brother broke out in the cp and 2 weeks later so did yds. Our dr said it was pretty darn rare to get shingles without having the pox but was probably the vaccine. ODS had the pox all over and was very sick. Yds, maybe 15 spots.

It can happen!

Kelly

 

[beachlover9395]

Well the war in Iraq is going to cost over at trillion (yes with a T) dollars by the time it ends and we pay for the health care costs of the injured veterans. (CBO figures) Considering no one has really been able to give a good reason why we actually are there, imagine the amt of construction paper and glue the kindergarten class could buy.

(Hey, not to mention that our U.S. government provides Universal Healthcare for the Iraqis and Afghans. Of course, U.S. citizens can't have it .....)


I'm thrilled to hear about the reduction in deaths due to the varicella vaccine. I felt like I was going to die when I had it back in elementary school. I was COVERED from head to toe and still have many scars. I would have gladly taken it and any needed boosters. My kids were exposed to it before we got them vaccinated. Hopefully, they'll get it for their kids!

 

[Bonnie151]

I'm asking sincerely, is this possible? I would think it was more a case of your just not ever having been exposed to the degree that you would catch them. Is it possible to just spontaneously develop immunity?

It's the opposite, actually. I was exposed over and over and over as a child (my mother was a great believer in having me play with infected kids so I would catch it - never did!). I was exposed again when I was pregnant so I went to the doctor for a blood test which showed I'd built up a natural immunity. It's seemingly fairly common - wish I'd known before because I'd spent much of my adult life paranoid I'd catch it!!

 

[sukhakuli]

(Hey, not to mention that our U.S. government provides Universal Healthcare for the Iraqis and Afghans. Of course, U.S. citizens can't have it .....)


I'm thrilled to hear about the reduction in deaths due to the varicella vaccine. I felt like I was going to die when I had it back in elementary school. I was COVERED from head to toe and still have many scars. I would have gladly taken it and any needed boosters. My kids were exposed to it before we got them vaccinated. Hopefully, they'll get it for their kids!

Not really true. My dh deployed to Afghanistan for a year as a SMO (senior medical officer) and he was in charge of the health care for his part of the province. They don't provide health care to Afghans for free. They train the doctors there who have abysmal training, they try to get charities to donate supplies (they got them a blood refrigerator and an ambulance), they meet with the ministry of health to talk about health care. My dh started a feeding program all on his own to give food to kids who were starving (they had to meet certain requirements, so not every child would get it, only those who would die otherwise, they didn't have enough supplies), but they do not give free healthcare to all Afghans. In fact, they often turned them away. They provided healthcare to people who had been injured as a direct result of American or NATO intervention there. Sometimes they did get scammed, like they brought in a woman who had been shot by the Taliban, but they said it was our troops. She did get treatment, and it definitely saved her life, but taking care of civilians for free was not part of dh's mission, or the mission of the other doctors who were under him.

As far as vaccinations goes, we believe in it and my kids are fully vaccinated.

 

[beachlover9395]

Not really true. My dh deployed to Afghanistan for a year as a SMO (senior medical officer) and he was in charge of the health care for his part of the province. They don't provide health care to Afghans for free. They train the doctors there who have abysmal training, they try to get charities to donate supplies (they got them a blood refrigerator and an ambulance), they meet with the ministry of health to talk about health care. My dh started a feeding program all on his own to give food to kids who were starving (they had to meet certain requirements, so not every child would get it, only those who would die otherwise, they didn't have enough supplies), but they do not give free healthcare to all Afghans. In fact, they often turned them away. They provided healthcare to people who had been injured as a direct result of American or NATO intervention there. Sometimes they did get scammed, like they brought in a woman who had been shot by the Taliban, but they said it was our troops. She did get treatment, and it definitely saved her life, but taking care of civilians for free was not part of dh's mission, or the mission of the other doctors who were under him.

As far as vaccinations goes, we believe in it and my kids are fully vaccinated.

Off-topic:
I stand corrected, and it sounds like some of the conditions your husband experienced over there were abysmal and very difficult. Thanks to him for his service!

And I agree with you about vaccinations. It's amazing how far medicine and vaccines have come in 40 years!

 

[themilesfamily]

I guess it depends on ones definition of "successful".. Compared to some who ended up 100% crippled, yes - her treatment was successful..

C.Ann, thanks for sharing her story. That must have been incredibly difficult for her and the entire family -- and it sounds like it continues to be difficult as she struggles with the after-effects of the disease.

Something that really opened my eyes to the power of vaccines was, when doing genealogical research on my family, I was looking through cemetery records searching for the grave of a family member. A few cemeteries had lists of not only when the person was buried, but what they died of. (This was a list from the 1930's.) It was shocking to see how many children were buried and how often they'd died of measles, polio, diphtheria, etc. There were A LOT. There were also a lot of people who died of pneumonia -- that was another one I saw repeatedly.

 

[Kath2003]

The problem is that there are 1000's of viruses that cause the "common cold" and it would be pretty much next to impossible with current technology to create a vaccine for each and every one of those--and not cost effective and who in the heck wants 1000 shots?

True, so any developments would be the result of (costly) research.

Can't really vaccinate for murder though.

All I'm saying is that, at a point when spending is supposed to being limited, it seems odd that a government would choose to spend money on a low-impact disease of all things.

As for the comments about the developing world...I don't even know how to respond to that