Principal called police because our 9 year old rode his bike alone
- Thread starter DVCcurious
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Cheburashka
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- Dec 25, 2020
Pediatric neurologists are scientists and their skilled diagnosis is scientific evidence. They are the ultimate scientific authority on this issue, so anyone approaching this from a truly scientific perspective will seek their input.
You already are treating your child differently by having him in therapy, which is appropriate to his special needs. I agree there is no need to treat him differently in all ways, regardless of his diagnosis. I'm a huge advocate of high academic and behavioral standards for children with special needs. If his special need has a label of autism, that doesn't change who he is or how you or others interact with him day to day. It just can help you understand his needs better and help him become more successful.
I'm not going to badger you any more, so I'll sign off with this. You're not serving your son if you aren't taking him to the medical specialist that covers the kind of issues he's been having. A child with such a severe speech delay should be seen by a pediatric neurologist to rule out a neurological disorder. That's a standard of medicine and it is not in your child's best interest to sidestep that medical evaluation, just because you've read books on the topic and choose not to believe in it. You frankly need a professional and unbiased opinion.
Not believing in ASD is like not believing in mental illness. Just because you can't visibly see it and do a definitive test for it doesn't mean it isn't real. Saying you believe in autism but not ASD doesn't make any sense. They are the same thing "Autism" isn't just one presentation and it is NOTHING like Down Syndrome so that comparison doesn't even make any sense.
My 74 year old father is autistic. He got diagnosed late in life. He also went to Notre Dame and got a Physics degree, then graduate school for Electrical Engineering, and got married and had 3 kids and had a successful professional career. With autism. Imagine that. He is terrible at communicating, but I see a lot of him in my sons. He could probably have used some good interventions and supports when he was young when he had to repeat kindergarten. Instead, the nuns at his catholic school just beat him. I prefer what my kids have had available to them.
There used to be several different autism diagnoses. They were combined under the ASD name to simplify the way it is diagnosed and treated, as the core characteristics are all shared.
Your child is very, very likely autistic. An SLP isn't a reliable diagnostician of mental disorders, no matter how much of an "expert" she claims to be. Take your child to a Pediatric Neurologist and get a firm answer either way. At the end of the day, autism is a communication and socialization disorder, but it can cause a whole host of learning issues due to poor neural connectivity between different areas of the brain (too many connections in some areas, not enough in others). It is a brain wiring issue. Autism brains are literally different, and those differences HAVE been observed in imaging studies and in post mortem studies of actual brain tissue from people diagnosed with autism.
I have 2 sons with autism. One takes meds for anxiety and ADHD (not for autism specifically) and the other takes absolutely no meds at all. The one on meds has an IQ in the 140s. He is incredibly smart, but he has major deficits in all areas of communication and language use and understanding. He reads and writes at a 4th grade level. He is a junior in high school. He does college level math, though. He won't be college bound. He doesn't want to go and instead wants to work as a pastry chef.
The younger one has an IQ around 80 and was placed into a more restrictive environment in 7th grade after me insisting for years that he didn't need that and then realizing that he absolutely did and I had done him no favors by fighting that placement suggestion a couple years earlier. He is on a vocational skills pathway that will serve him well in life, because it teaches him usable application of real world skills. He has no ability to grasp abstract concepts in math, science and social studies. He attended up to 6th grade in a mainstream class and basically topped out, academically around 5th grade. He never could get the hang of the more complex stuff presented in 6th. He is in 9th now and slowly, slowly gaining academic skills, but his ability to communicate and relate to his peers and others has improved by leaps and bounds. He is also a gifted artist.
A tale of 2 autistic boys, who are complete opposites in literally every way. Autism has no face.
My 74 year old father is autistic. He got diagnosed late in life. He also went to Notre Dame and got a Physics degree, then graduate school for Electrical Engineering, and got married and had 3 kids and had a successful professional career. With autism. Imagine that. He is terrible at communicating, but I see a lot of him in my sons. He could probably have used some good interventions and supports when he was young when he had to repeat kindergarten. Instead, the nuns at his catholic school just beat him. I prefer what my kids have had available to them.
There used to be several different autism diagnoses. They were combined under the ASD name to simplify the way it is diagnosed and treated, as the core characteristics are all shared.
Your child is very, very likely autistic. An SLP isn't a reliable diagnostician of mental disorders, no matter how much of an "expert" she claims to be. Take your child to a Pediatric Neurologist and get a firm answer either way. At the end of the day, autism is a communication and socialization disorder, but it can cause a whole host of learning issues due to poor neural connectivity between different areas of the brain (too many connections in some areas, not enough in others). It is a brain wiring issue. Autism brains are literally different, and those differences HAVE been observed in imaging studies and in post mortem studies of actual brain tissue from people diagnosed with autism.
I have 2 sons with autism. One takes meds for anxiety and ADHD (not for autism specifically) and the other takes absolutely no meds at all. The one on meds has an IQ in the 140s. He is incredibly smart, but he has major deficits in all areas of communication and language use and understanding. He reads and writes at a 4th grade level. He is a junior in high school. He does college level math, though. He won't be college bound. He doesn't want to go and instead wants to work as a pastry chef.
The younger one has an IQ around 80 and was placed into a more restrictive environment in 7th grade after me insisting for years that he didn't need that and then realizing that he absolutely did and I had done him no favors by fighting that placement suggestion a couple years earlier. He is on a vocational skills pathway that will serve him well in life, because it teaches him usable application of real world skills. He has no ability to grasp abstract concepts in math, science and social studies. He attended up to 6th grade in a mainstream class and basically topped out, academically around 5th grade. He never could get the hang of the more complex stuff presented in 6th. He is in 9th now and slowly, slowly gaining academic skills, but his ability to communicate and relate to his peers and others has improved by leaps and bounds. He is also a gifted artist.
A tale of 2 autistic boys, who are complete opposites in literally every way. Autism has no face.
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Please look through this. You have a misunderstanding of what Autism Spectrum means.
https://the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/
https://the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/
DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
We have a meeting with an attorney for a half hour Monday morning where we'll brief him on the facts and get his opinion on next steps. He'll probably have to request the report and supporting documents from CPS and prepare our defense. It'll probably cost us like $5,000 I'm thinking. Hopefully it's not that much.
I've (obviously) spent quite a lot of time researching this "educational neglect" claim and I have found two completely contradictory policies/ laws. This just shows how screwed up the legal /CPS system is.
Both of these are true:
1) Parents have the right to refuse a recommendation of special education services for any reason.
2) A parent who does not allow the school district to provide special education services that the district believes the child needs can be charged with educational neglect.
So you can deny services but then they'll just turn around and go right after you for neglect.
We will appeal the indicated report and if we lose then the punishment is being listed on some registry until our son turns 28 years old. This is not a criminal matter and there are no financial penalties they can assess (at least from my research). I'll confirm this with the attorney Monday.
In the end if they give us a choice of being indicated or agreeing to allow the school to provide special ed services we are going to choose an indicated report of educational neglect. We believe that our son was abused in the special ed program and we will never put him in harm's way again.
I just wonder if this principal can keep filing these claims over and over and over. I mean if we never agree to allow the school to provide special ed services can't he file a CPS claim against us every school year? Or every month? Or every day?
Went to the doctor today to get my blood test results. I have high cholesterol and I have a high platelet count. He said that puts me at a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. I'm going on some daily pills he prescribed to me and he recommended baby aspirin. Anyway this isn't really good news considering the anxiety I've been feeling the past two weeks. But at least I can start taking this medicine now. I thought only old people had to take daily pills. Now that I'm almost 45 does that make me "old people"?
I've (obviously) spent quite a lot of time researching this "educational neglect" claim and I have found two completely contradictory policies/ laws. This just shows how screwed up the legal /CPS system is.
Both of these are true:
1) Parents have the right to refuse a recommendation of special education services for any reason.
2) A parent who does not allow the school district to provide special education services that the district believes the child needs can be charged with educational neglect.
So you can deny services but then they'll just turn around and go right after you for neglect.
We will appeal the indicated report and if we lose then the punishment is being listed on some registry until our son turns 28 years old. This is not a criminal matter and there are no financial penalties they can assess (at least from my research). I'll confirm this with the attorney Monday.
In the end if they give us a choice of being indicated or agreeing to allow the school to provide special ed services we are going to choose an indicated report of educational neglect. We believe that our son was abused in the special ed program and we will never put him in harm's way again.
I just wonder if this principal can keep filing these claims over and over and over. I mean if we never agree to allow the school to provide special ed services can't he file a CPS claim against us every school year? Or every month? Or every day?
Went to the doctor today to get my blood test results. I have high cholesterol and I have a high platelet count. He said that puts me at a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. I'm going on some daily pills he prescribed to me and he recommended baby aspirin. Anyway this isn't really good news considering the anxiety I've been feeling the past two weeks. But at least I can start taking this medicine now. I thought only old people had to take daily pills. Now that I'm almost 45 does that make me "old people"?
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DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
Last edited:
DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
So what you're saying is that a person with autism can lead a successful life without receiving autism treatments or drugs or special education services from the elementary school.
I totally agree with you.
He didn't have it easy. He struggled a LOT. He and my mother have had a tumultuous marriage, largely due to communication problems. He hit a wall in his professional career because he lacked the people skills to be an executive, despite having the technical expertise in the field.
He made a suicide attempt at age 33 while on a work trip in Germany. He was then diagnosed with major depressive disorder and later, Bipolar disorder. He admitted to having spent his entire life up to that point "masking" and he had a nervous breakdown.
So, I would say that his life could have been immeasurably more enjoyable and less stressful than it was.
Oh, he is also a functional alcoholic. So, there is that too.
DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
When our son is of an appropriate age we will give him the choice to go to a neuropsychologist and get tested. We will give him the choice to join the schools' special ed program. But right now he's too young to make these decisions so we have to make the best decision we can for him.
"of an appropriate age" is TBD. I'm thinking 12 or 13 but it will depend on what we think of his maturity by then.
Again, I'd rather error on the side of doing nothing than error on the side of too much intervention.
"of an appropriate age" is TBD. I'm thinking 12 or 13 but it will depend on what we think of his maturity by then.
Again, I'd rather error on the side of doing nothing than error on the side of too much intervention.
Jmljasmine
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2020
As for old people- nah. I have hypothyroidism and have been on daily pills since I was diagnosed at 8.
DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
MAJOR UPDATE
I have a major update today. This is just such BS I'm besides myself. We talked to an attorney this morning. He said that we would lose the educational neglect claim and we should basically just agree to the special ed services.
We talked it over and decided that there's such a short time in the school year we can agree to the services and by the time they start up again school will basically be over. And we decided to move to a new school district over the summer so we'll never have to see these people again.
So I called the abusers at the district and I told them we'd be willing to come back. I sent an email to the head of special ed services and said that we'd like to have our son screened, etc. Then I forwarded that email to the CPS person and I said "we've thought about your recommendation to work with the school. I have contacted the school to begin services. Please take this into consideration on your investigation into educational neglect". And she responded "That's great. However we are going to indicate you for lack of supervision."
I kid you not. They are now going BACK to the original claim.
So I called an attorney we talked to a month ago that we liked. He said to call him back if we're indicated. We put down a $3,500 retainer and he's going to represent us. In his opinion CPS was going to go forward with BOTH claims (educational neglect and lack of supervision) but they were trying to bully us back into the district's special ed program. And I guess it worked because I can't go to the special ed person I emailed today and said I changed my mind. And they'd just probably reinstate the educational neglect accusation if I did.
In one way I feel better having an attorney take over from here. No, I don't like spending the money. But I just can't take this anymore. We are moving over the summer to a new district to get this behind us. Unfortunately the attorney said the new district will get all of the information from our current district so it won't really be a clean slate.
I have a major update today. This is just such BS I'm besides myself. We talked to an attorney this morning. He said that we would lose the educational neglect claim and we should basically just agree to the special ed services.
We talked it over and decided that there's such a short time in the school year we can agree to the services and by the time they start up again school will basically be over. And we decided to move to a new school district over the summer so we'll never have to see these people again.
So I called the abusers at the district and I told them we'd be willing to come back. I sent an email to the head of special ed services and said that we'd like to have our son screened, etc. Then I forwarded that email to the CPS person and I said "we've thought about your recommendation to work with the school. I have contacted the school to begin services. Please take this into consideration on your investigation into educational neglect". And she responded "That's great. However we are going to indicate you for lack of supervision."
I kid you not. They are now going BACK to the original claim.
So I called an attorney we talked to a month ago that we liked. He said to call him back if we're indicated. We put down a $3,500 retainer and he's going to represent us. In his opinion CPS was going to go forward with BOTH claims (educational neglect and lack of supervision) but they were trying to bully us back into the district's special ed program. And I guess it worked because I can't go to the special ed person I emailed today and said I changed my mind. And they'd just probably reinstate the educational neglect accusation if I did.
In one way I feel better having an attorney take over from here. No, I don't like spending the money. But I just can't take this anymore. We are moving over the summer to a new district to get this behind us. Unfortunately the attorney said the new district will get all of the information from our current district so it won't really be a clean slate.
ucf_knight
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2017
You need to listen to the podcast “do no harm”. It’s about how cps in Texas took kids away from their families for accidents occurring in the home. Not completely what you’re going through but will offer a great insight on how to deal with cps. It’s good you already have an attorney. Good luck with everything. My only opinion would be to, if you could afford it, take him out of public schooling. It’s a huge sacrifice as public schools often have better special Ed service but if you don’t want them I’m sure there’s a school out there that’d be better suited for you all.
AZMermaid
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
I assume they’ll write an IEP? That will go with him to the new school. But how many days do you have left? we have 28 with a half time psych.... so only 14 possible days for testing. If your son misses a few.... he might not get tested in time....I can pretty much guarantee that they’ll let the new school know you were in the process of testing though, since this has been so contentious.
I agree that letting them do it and finding a school that better meets your needs is probably the best option. Here in AZ, you can get the state to pay for private school for special needs students if you go through the right hoops. We also have school choice so unless it’s full, you can go to any public school you want.
I agree that letting them do it and finding a school that better meets your needs is probably the best option. Here in AZ, you can get the state to pay for private school for special needs students if you go through the right hoops. We also have school choice so unless it’s full, you can go to any public school you want.
Jmljasmine
Mouseketeer
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- Apr 7, 2020
TwoMisfits
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2002
OP, I 2nd the previous poster...you should really explore homeschooling or full time private tutoring for the fall...
DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
I have to meet with the assistant to the person who lied on the PWN tomorrow. That will begin the process. They have to start testing from scratch then they have to write recommendations, then we have to have a committee on special education meeting, then they can start providing services. So I don't expect anything to happen until June 1 and our school ends about June 25 so it's like 3 weeks of services. That's why we are doing this: to appease CPS and it will only be a few weeks then we're moving.
We have talked to many people who live other places and no one has had the experience we've had.
So they can go ahead and tell the new school that he has an IEP. I assume that the new school can't possibly be any worse than our current school. And I mean the lying to us, the yelling at our son, the general jerks they've been almost the entire time we've dealt with them. Constantly pushing a special-ed only classroom.
It's like if you work for a terrible boss. They can make your life hell and you can't do anything about it but leave. We've reached that point.
I feel like crap. Just this is just a terrible feeling that we're going through this.
DVCcurious
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
No good. CPS will definitely charge us with abuse if we home school. We are on their radar and they will not accept us giving our "special needs severely autistic" son no special ed services.
starry_solo
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Talk to your attorney, see if you can negotiate a settlement with CPS that will not result in you being put on the statewide child abuse index.
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