Primary Grade Teachers: How would you score this?

[ekatiel]

Teacher here. K and previously 1, and 2nd. Also parent of a first grader.
I would like to begin by saying that I understand your frustration. However, it seems to me all but one of your issues could be a district/school/publisher issue, not a teacher issue.

Many of the things that parents dislike in our school are district mandates (like the fact that we have to teach our kinders how to bubble in answers so that they can take the publishers math tests three times a year-which is a waste of time and has no hands-on component which is essential in the primary grades.) Agreed. And this particular math test is a district benchmark formatted after the state's standardized test.

It sounds like your child is struggling, and you are not very receptive to hearing it. With the issues/scores you have listed, your child would be in intervention by the second week of Oct. in our district. Our progress report grades/scores are done by computer. We input the scores, and a progress report, based on district expectations, is generated. If our first grade teacher put in a 3 now, that child would be considered "below standards" by the "computer" and it would reflect so on the progress report. If a child is "below standards" they are put into intervention. This progress report was not done by computer. It was also given out in mid-september, and the testing for the report was done the second week of school. DS is now at least a "4" b/c he is bringing home books that are supposed to be level 4s, and she sends home their independent reading level, meaning that she is instructing currently on a 6.

A 3 is fine the first few weeks of school, but by Oct. it is below grade level. Even though your child met the standard, on the low end, he/she is no longer meeting it because expectations rose. A 6 by Oct is not unusual being that they need to be somewhere between a 14-18 by the end of the year in most districts. Once again, the progress report came out in mid-september.

Finally, the books can vary in a single level. I have easy 3's and hard 3's. It is not the teacher who levels the books, but the company. It is just different as the Fancy Nancy beginner books being level 1, but have all of the traits of a level 3 (about a 14-16 DRA). The books in our book room, which are leveled by the company which we purchase them from can vary drastically, and I still use them all. The books that she sends home are from her own collection. Many are trade books and do not have a level printed on them by the publisher. She has leveled them herself. They have yard sale stickers on them stating the "level". Her leveling is not correct, at least according to Scholastic's Book Wizard, which is one of the only sources I know that provides levels for trade books.

I am also only allowed to use 2 specific books to test for each level, one is hard and one is much easier. Some teachers are tough and only give the hard one, some let the children choose, and some give the easier book. My partner always gives the easy books at the end of the year so her children all leave on level. Our first grade teachers always reassess her students because they know this and it has caused them problems with parents (when children are considered lower in first than they were in K). I suspect something similar occurred here, as our next door neighbor is also in my son's class, and he, too, was a "4" at the end of last year but only a "3" this year.

Please try and remember the teacher is trying to help your child meet the expectations of the school/district, not annoy you or pick on your child. Work with her instead of against her. If you have already made a fuss about the progress report (which is not a big deal anyway-its first grade, who cares, Harvard will never know), you are already on her radar as being one of those parents

I do know that the teacher has good intentions, and she is very scientific in her teaching methods. I just fear that she is a bit too scientific and could use a little bit of grace in her methods. I am well aware that my progress report stink caused me to become one of THOSE parents. In my opinion, it was not OK to send a below level progress report to a child who tested on level. I do not think that she is a bad teacher. I think that she is actually a really good teacher. We just need to find a way to work together and help my DS be successful.

 

[mistysue]

My DD was tested as a 4 last October (1st grade) and it landed her in title 1 immediately.
I agree with the PP who said your child might be behind and you just aren't receptive to hearing it. If he is a 4 now he is probably on track to be behind- especially considering he hasn't gone up at all since last spring.

As to the backwards numbers, DD has backwards letters and numbers marked wrong every time. She had a spelling test last year where she had one word she didn't know and 8 words with a backwards letter or two... 10%. (as in she spelled 9/10 correct, but 8 of them were wrong for letter reversals)

What age is it "fair" to you to stop marking it wrong? You have to draw a firm line because there is always somebody who struggles more and you have to be fair. The kids who do it right should get credit for that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

*I am not a certified teacher

On handwriting workbooks--I make them fix it. (Because it is wrong)
On copy work--I make them fix it. (Because it is wrong)

On something that is not contingent on the direction of the letter (like the above) but I can tell the content--they have to correct the letter for practice, but I do not mark it wrong.

For numbers as in math--I don't count it wrong but make them fix it for practice.

We homeschool and I have that flexibility.

My 2nd child has some subtle vision issue--so in 3rd grade she still has a couple of reversals every now and again.

So instead of being upset with the teacher--perhaps looking into why he does so many reversals. (And to be honest, I don't quite understand the mirroring numbers issue. Wouldn't he also do that with 2-letter words?)

I don't calculate grades in the very early years--so it is more important that they know they didn't write it correctly. But I only X it if it is a handwriting exercise in first grade.

 

[MrsPete]

So, primary grade teachers, how do you grade mirrored numbers? --Katie

I'm a high school teacher, so I have no real opinion on how a first grade teacher'd grade mirrored numbers, but I do see a different problem here: You're overly caught up in grades. He's barely started school; don't start him out with the idea that grades are the be-all, end-all of the whole experience. If you teach him to "grade grub", he'll constantly be disappointed in himself every time he makes a 92 and wonder why it couldn't have been a 100. Kids' elementary school grades are rarely seen by anyone outside the school. There's no real reason to worry about whether he gets an A or a C on the test. It's not a battle worth fighting.

Now, what does matter in first grade is that he feel capable and compotent, and he feels that he's doing well in school. Grades may contribute to this feeling, but grades alone will never provide that internal sense of "I'm good at school." Obsessing over grades will be counter-productive.

If this were happening with my child, I'd look over the test with him and say, "Look! You got these questions right, but you reversed the numbers! Silly boy! Let's take extra care on the homework to make sure you get 'em right next time. And when you take your next test, take a minute to check those numbers." That acknowledges that he understands the concepts and actually got the problems right -- but it also doesn't let him off the hook to work on getting those numbers right. Also, if he genuinely has a problem that isn't diagnosed yet, and if he is really flabberghasted by the mirrored numbers, you'll know that some testing is in order. If it's just a matter of growing and practicing, look over his homework and have him correct anything that he's reversed. That practice will be more valuable than the numbers written in the teacher's gradebook.

Around middle school it'll be time to start to focus on actual grades. Then it'll be time to introduce the idea that grades = college options = scholarships, etc. That's the time to let him understand that he should push for As.

So I was floored when I received a progress report the next week that had reading marked as an "area of concern" with the statement, "We have a long way to go to get from a 3 to a 6 in just four short weeks!" written on the report. I was thinking, "That's your JOB!!!" I refused to sign the report until it was amended to show him on grade level.

When I read that comment, I hear, "I want you, the parent, to realize that he needs to improve, and I'm saying it in an upbeat way." I do not hear, "I don't want to do my job." Refusing to sign something 'til the teacher ammended it is also over-the-top. You could've written in your comment and sent it back. I think you are being THAT PARENT.

 

[ancestry]

On a different note I'm shocked that you actually get grades in the early classes. In our district no one is given a grade until 6th grade. Up until then it is exceeds the standards, meets the standards, or below standards for everything.

You are going to have a long 12 years ahead of you if you let all of these issues bother you. If things really affect my kids I stand up for them but in the course of life grades from 1st grade really don't matter and neither does what was written on a 1st grade progress report.

Just my two cents as a mother of four and a college teacher.

 

[ekatiel]

I'm a high school teacher, so I have no real opinion on how a first grade teacher'd grade mirrored numbers, but I do see a different problem here: You're overly caught up in grades. He's barely started school; don't start him out with the idea that grades are the be-all, end-all of the whole experience. If you teach him to "grade grub", he'll constantly be disappointed in himself every time he makes a 92 and wonder why it couldn't have been a 100. Kids' elementary school grades are rarely seen by anyone outside the school. There's no real reason to worry about whether he gets an A or a C on the test. It's not a battle worth fighting.

Now, what does matter in first grade is that he feel capable and compotent, and he feels that he's doing well in school. Grades may contribute to this feeling, but grades alone will never provide that internal sense of "I'm good at school." Obsessing over grades will be counter-productive.

If this were happening with my child, I'd look over the test with him and say, "Look! You got these questions right, but you reversed the numbers! Silly boy! Let's take extra care on the homework to make sure you get 'em right next time. And when you take your next test, take a minute to check those numbers."

This is exactly what I told him. He does not know that I am unhappy with the teacher's grading methods. He also does not know about the progress report scuffle. I would never let my feelings about a teacher impact him in any way. Any remarks I make about the teacher are said in private away from him. I do not focus on grades with him. I'm not sure he even knows what a "good grade" is versus a "bad grade". I focus on mastery with him. I asked the question initially because I knew mirrored numbers was a gray area, and I wanted to see what other teachers would do. It looks like the field is pretty much split. This year is tough because my teaching and grading style does not mesh with this teacher's style. We will deal. DS is not always going to encounter people who give him the benefit of the doubt. I am considering asking the teacher for a conference so we can come up with a plan to help DS be successful, since he seems to be struggling a bit. That way, we can discuss any needed modifications (for the mirrored numbers) or extra help he may need (in his reading). I think that will be more helpful than dickering with the teacher over a grade, whether I agree with the grade or not. --Katie

 

[polkadotminnie]

Sorry, but it would be marked wrong in my classroom.

I have 10 years experience teaching first grade and 11 years in second grade, it would be marked wrong in my class too. In our area, place value basics are introduced in kindergarten.

 

[MouseLover]

Our policy for first grade is that all reversals are wrong.

 

[ekatiel]

Our policy for first grade is that all reversals are wrong.

Wow-- this really surprises me. I can see counting mirrored numbers as wrong (although I obviously don't agree with it !), but it is widely known that it is developmentally normal for children to reverse letters and numbers until they are 8 or 9. If the answer to a math problem is "3" and the child writes the 3 backwards, you really count off?? In first grade?? I'm just shocked. --Katie

 

[Swimalie]

On a different note I'm shocked that you actually get grades in the early classes. In our district no one is given a grade until 6th grade. Up until then it is exceeds the standards, meets the standards, or below standards for everything.

You are going to have a long 12 years ahead of you if you let all of these issues bother you. If things really affect my kids I stand up for them but in the course of life grades from 1st grade really don't matter and neither does what was written on a 1st grade progress report.

Just my two cents as a mother of four and a college teacher.

I was thinking the same thing about grades being given. Our school district doesn't start with grades until 3rd grade. Until then they are S+, S and U.

As for marking it wrong, I'm not a teacher but if my son, who is in first grade, got that wrong I'd be working with him more on getting it right next time and worrying less about the teacher having mind-reading powers. I have a teacher like that this year for my son. She is strict and expects a lot and I love her for that. That is what my son needs. He can slack off a lot since he gets bored at times (he's a DRA 16 and gets bored easily). We work with him daily on getting his letters and numbers right.

Good luck.

 

[ekatiel]

I was thinking the same thing about grades being given. Our school district doesn't start with grades until 3rd grade. Until then they are S+, S and U.

As for marking it wrong, I'm not a teacher but if my son, who is in first grade, got that wrong I'd be working with him more on getting it right next time and worrying less about the teacher having mind-reading powers. I have a teacher like that this year for my son. She is strict and expects a lot and I love her for that. That is what my son needs. He can slack off a lot since he gets bored at times (he's a DRA 16 and gets bored easily). We work with him daily on getting his letters and numbers right.

Good luck.

These benchmark math tests are the only percentage graded material we've recieved so far. I haven't seen a first grade report card yet-- they come out next week, and I'm pretty sure they're still E, S, N, or U, not percentage grades, on the report card. I'm not sure why these particular tests are graded or how they convert that grade back to an E, S, N, or U. I'm sure it's a district mandate so they can keep tabs on the kids' math progress for the state standardized test that starts in 3rd grade. As I've said, I'm not going to bring up the grading to the teacher. If his report card ends up being below level, I will have a conference with her to see what kind of plan we can put in place to help my DS get back on track. I work with him at home pretty extensively, so it's not like I'm ignoring my kid in favor of nit picking the teacher. She and I just have different styles and it's been difficult to keep my mouth shut. I guess I'm learning something in first grade, too . --Katie

 

[torinsmom]

Thanks for your opinions guys. I will probably not say anything to her. It just seems like every week, I've got a problem with this teacher. I have not voiced most of them, but they just keep piling up. The only thing I made a stink about was her sending home a progress report that said my DS was below level in reading. Just the week before, we had a parent teacher conference, and she had me sign a paper that said he was on-level. She tested him as a DRA 3 (he was a 4 at the end of last year, and we read all summer, so I'm not sure the 3 was really accurate), but "3" is considered on level for the beginning of first grade in our district. So I was floored when I received a progress report the next week that had reading marked as an "area of concern" with the statement, "We have a long way to go to get from a 3 to a 6 in just four short weeks!" written on the report. I was thinking, "That's your JOB!!!" I refused to sign the report until it was amended to show him on grade level. Other than that, I've not voiced concerns.

Other concerns that I have not voiced: There was one math test where she did not read the problems to the kids, she just handed them the test and had them do it themselves (the fourth week of first grade). She sends home independent level readers for the kids to read at home (which bugs me in itself b/c I was always taught to send home the kids' instructional guided readers)-- the readers are labeled with DRA levels, but they are not accurate. My DS was sent home two different books labeled as a DRA 4, they seemed a little difficult, so I typed the titles into Scholastic's Book Wizard. One was listed as an 8, and one was listed as a 10. Anyhow, it's just been one thing after another, and it's only the 9th week of school. I haven't brought up any of these other concerns, but I'm just getting more and more frustrated with this teacher. --Katie

As a teacher, you should know that parents and teachers are a team when it comes to student learning. So, yes, your child, the teacher and you have to work to get him on level. I can definitely tell the kids whose parents read with them at home. I'm sure you read with your child, so I'm not sure why you think it's all the teacher's job.

Did she amend the report? I wouldn't be able to do that if the record showed the child was not on grade level--I would be in a load of trouble! Sounds like she made a mistake when she talked to you the week before, or that the date listed for kids to be at a higher DRA level was between the first and second report you received. If a child was at a level 3 and had to be at a level 6 in a few weeks, I would have told the parent the child was on task, but was at risk of not making the 6 without a lot of practice at school AND home.

This is exactly what I told him. He does not know that I am unhappy with the teacher's grading methods. He also does not know about the progress report scuffle. I would never let my feelings about a teacher impact him in any way. Any remarks I make about the teacher are said in private away from him. I do not focus on grades with him. I'm not sure he even knows what a "good grade" is versus a "bad grade". I focus on mastery with him. I asked the question initially because I knew mirrored numbers was a gray area, and I wanted to see what other teachers would do. It looks like the field is pretty much split. This year is tough because my teaching and grading style does not mesh with this teacher's style. We will deal. DS is not always going to encounter people who give him the benefit of the doubt. I am considering asking the teacher for a conference so we can come up with a plan to help DS be successful, since he seems to be struggling a bit. That way, we can discuss any needed modifications (for the mirrored numbers) or extra help he may need (in his reading). I think that will be more helpful than dickering with the teacher over a grade, whether I agree with the grade or not. --Katie

You will have to get over your teaching style being different. DS is a senior in high school and I have BTDT quite a few times. The only time I intervened was when a math teacher was berating him for his handwriting in front of other kids, when he has a writing disability documented in his IEP. Being a different type of teacher doesn't make you better or worse. And is this bothering your son, or just you? I know when my son had these kind of teachers(hard for me to connect with or understand), he adjusted fine, and I was the one who was frustrated.

I do think a conference with the teacher is a good idea. Find out what she is doing to help him get up to level in reading and to correct the mirroring in math. You can do some of the same things at home, so he is getting the same message both places. It will do no good to get into a battle over teaching styles. I would express my confusion over the on level/below level marks so close together.

For reading, I find that learning sight words is the one thing that really seems to help children make that jump to the level 6/8. We use flash cards and the kids use movable alphabet(letters in a box) to "spell" the words. For the mirroring, after your child writes a number, have him read it back. This will be especially helpful for the ones where he writes 13, but means 31. For writing the number backwards, a model should be used until he is writing them successfully. It may also help to have him practice writing numbers in shaving cream, grits on a tray, etc. to get the technique into his motor memory.

Good luck!

 

[WantToGoNow]

My dd7 is in 2nd grade this year and her teacher is very strict about everything. There are points deducted if the letter/number goes below the bottom line on the paper or not perfectly rounded at the top and would definitely mark it wrong if the numbers were backwards/mirrored.

As for the readers, she has brought home everything from books that have a few words to a page to books that are probably more leveled for her 5th grade brother. I think it takes the teachers a while to figure out what level books the kids need because now she's bringing home more level appropriate books for her.

 

[KKB]

for over 20 years I am HORRIFIED that reversals or mirror images are "counted wrong" by ANY child in first grade. As said here, it is a DEVELOPMENTAL issue.
Should it be corrected by the teacher & noted to the child--YES.
But an answer is wrong because a child doesn't know the answer, doesn't know how to find the answer or careless--REVERSALS ARE NONE OF THESE.
This is NOT leniency--it is developmentally appropriate.
NOW, I realize that sometimes teachers hands are tied, particularly in our insane testing world right now (one reason I became a school librarian 3 years ago...)...but this SO proves the inappropriateness of some of the standards being formulated today.

 

[torinsmom]

for over 20 years I am HORRIFIED that reversals or mirror images are "counted wrong" by ANY child in first grade. As said here, it is a DEVELOPMENTAL issue.
Should it be corrected by the teacher & noted to the child--YES.
But an answer is wrong because a child doesn't know the answer, doesn't know how to find the answer or careless--REVERSALS ARE NONE OF THESE.
This is NOT leniency--it is developmentally appropriate.
NOW, I realize that sometimes teachers hands are tied, particularly in our insane testing world right now (one reason I became a school librarian 3 years ago...)...but this SO proves the inappropriateness of some of the standards being formulated today.

So, if the answer is 41 and the child writes 14, do you count it right? I understand accepting reversal of a single digit in K or 1st grade, but not an answer that changes the number completely.

 

[janey99]

I am shocked that you know your DH has dyslexia, and your child is writing a lot of reversals and mirror "phrases" (counting multi-digit numbers as a phrase) at the age of 8, and you are thinking this is a grading issue with the teacher.

I would also think it's telling that you feel his reading was strong all summer (possibly after reading the same selection of books on multiple occasions) but the teacher feels (probably after seeing/hearing him read unfamiliar books) he is at a lower level. Dyslexics, particularly those with high IQs, memorize books and stories and in elementary school can fake it pretty well.

Dyslexia runs in families. I would be spending my energy looking into more evaluation to determine if my DS needed support. The impact of dyslexia on the rest of a child's life can be greatly minimized if he/she is taught alternative educational strategies early.

Jane

 

[lisalis]

I taught first grade for a few years and I would not count reversals wrong, but mirrored numbers wrong because of the place value issue. We did not give grades, but had standards. I would write that the student was still developing writing #s to 100 and place value mastery. I would orally test addition and subtraction facts to get an accurate assessment for this student.

I agree with the PP that the issue is not really the grade, but why your daughter is writing the numbers mirrored. While many students may do this occasionally in first grade, it should be tapering off. The teacher and you need to get to the root of the problem.

 

[LynneyPooh]

Our policy for first grade is that all reversals are wrong.

I'm sorry, but I truly believe that your area is wrong with this policy. At the first grade level, especailly the first quarter of school, teachers need to remember this is NEW to these children. Kindergarten is very different compared to first grade. Personally I feel that a little questioning of OP's son was in order to decide if it was a true mirror/reversal, or does DS have no idea of the numbers. In addition I would not count the entire problem wrong for this if I determined that he knew the answer but wrote it incorrectly. I would take a point or two off per reversal so the student would know it is partially correct, and partially incorrect. A child does not have to have an IEP or 504 Plan for good teaching practices to be used. A teacher should, as much as possible, in our large classrooms today, modify/accommadate every child IF IT IS NEEDED. In addition this child would now be on my radar because while I know this is normal and developmentally appropriate for this age, it could also be an early indicator of a learning disability. I would not rush to have the child tested, but start making notes/observations to see if it stays the same, or gets better to make a more informed judgement on the situation.
As with all other posters, this is IMHO, (based on my experiences as a teacher).
BTW I am certified in the areas of Early Childhood, Elementary Ed, and Special Education. I currently teach Spec. Education resource students (meaning that these are children identified with learning disabilities who can function in the regular classroom).

 

[fakereadhed]

I am not a teacher, but I have a first grader, and my mom was a 1st/2nd grade teacher for 35 years. There has been a push to ignore child development and expect more of kids sooner, in comparison to even 10 years ago when my DD was in first grade. First grade is now like second grade of the past.

The question is, how is your son handling the corrections on the math? Is he upset? Is he frustrated with reading? If not, I'd let it go. If it is going to impact him negatively, I'd talk to the teacher. First grade shouldn't be awful! It should be hard, but not completely frustrating. If he's taking it well, I would just wait and see. The nice thing is that you realize that it's not a big deal to do the reversals. I called my mom and she told me to relax!

 

[sk!mom]

It sounds like your child is struggling, and you are not very receptive to hearing it. With the issues/scores you have listed, your child would be in intervention by the second week of Oct. in our district. Our progress report grades/scores are done by computer. We input the scores, and a progress report, based on district expectations, is generated. If our first grade teacher put in a 3 now, that child would be considered "below standards" by the "computer" and it would reflect so on the progress report. If a child is "below standards" they are put into intervention.

This