Primary Grade Teachers: How would you score this?

[ekatiel]

Hi Guys-- Let me start off by saying that I am a former elementary school teacher, and I have a master's degree in teaching. I quit to stay home with my kiddos. My first grader reverses letters and numbers all the time. I know that reversals are completely normal until age 8, so I'm not that concerned yet. I received a graded math test today where my son reversed several individual digits (the teacher did not count off of individual digit reversals), but he also mirror wrote a few numbers (01 for 10, 02 (with the 2 backwards) for 20,and so on). The teacher counted the problems with the mirrored numbers wrong. Is this standard practice in first grade? It is obvious that he meant 10, 20, 30 and so on (he was asked to count "ten frames" and write the numbers below the frame). His numbers are almost perfectly mirrored, except that he managed to get the "5" in fifty facing the right direction. Should I raise a stink with the teacher? We had no problems in kindergarten, but I seem to be having an issue with this teacher at least once a week. I do not voice most of them, but I did raise a stink a few weeks ago about another issue that I felt was unfair. I am turning into THAT parent . I really never wanted to be THAT parent, but apparently my teaching philosophy and hers don't mesh well. Not sure if this one is worth making a stink about (he missed two questions due to mirror writing, which would raise his grade from 76% to 86%). She also gives no partial credit on the test, even though one of the questions he missed required him to fill in 9 numbers between 1 and 15. He missed it b/c he wrote "01" for "10". All 8 other numbers he had to fill in were correct. It just seems like this is a bit of harsh grading for first grade. So, primary grade teachers, how do you grade mirrored numbers? --Katie

 

[poober25]

I would have a BIG problem w/ it, but I've rarely had to deal w/ other teachers since we've always homeschooled, so I don't know what standard practices are. If you are having a lot of problems, maybe that (homeschooling) is a consideration?

 

[marmalade]

In 1st grade I would expect that a child should know the difference between 01 and 10. I would have no problem if my 1st grader came home and was marked incorrectly. How else is your DS going to know what he is doing wrong if his teacher doesn't mark it incorrect.

 

[averysmom]

I teach middle years, and also have my masters, and I would mark it wrong, unless he was on an adapted program. My son is grade 4 and he lost marks often on his spelling tests for reversals (b and d mostly), but, IMO, they were wrong. My daugther is in grade one this year, and I would be okay with her having them marked incorrectly as well.

 

[momto2inKC]

In 1st grade I would expect that a child should know the difference between 01 and 10. I would have no problem if my 1st grader came home and was marked incorrectly. How else is your DS going to know what he is doing wrong if his teacher doesn't mark it incorrect.

I agree...in kindergarten, it would be a different story. By 1st grade they should be writing it correctly. I wouldn't be upset at all if the teacher marked it wrong.

 

[MomtoGKC]

I disagree- I think the teacher should point out the reversal but he should not have been marked wrong if this is something she knows he is struggling with and he clearly knew how to do the math problem.

I was also an elementary teacher before I had kids. We had a system for partial credit on math tests. You had to show your work and put the answer. If you did the correct process but came up with the wrong answer you got credit for knowing what you were supposed to do. We tried to teach the kids that even if they made a silly computing mistake they still were on the right track. I try to teach my kids the same thing even though their teachers don't do it that way. I'll point out that they had the right idea but they were one number off, or they got the right answer on the side but copied it incorrectly on the answer line.

 

[ekatiel]

Thanks for your opinions guys. I will probably not say anything to her. It just seems like every week, I've got a problem with this teacher. I have not voiced most of them, but they just keep piling up. The only thing I made a stink about was her sending home a progress report that said my DS was below level in reading. Just the week before, we had a parent teacher conference, and she had me sign a paper that said he was on-level. She tested him as a DRA 3 (he was a 4 at the end of last year, and we read all summer, so I'm not sure the 3 was really accurate), but "3" is considered on level for the beginning of first grade in our district. So I was floored when I received a progress report the next week that had reading marked as an "area of concern" with the statement, "We have a long way to go to get from a 3 to a 6 in just four short weeks!" written on the report. I was thinking, "That's your JOB!!!" I refused to sign the report until it was amended to show him on grade level. Other than that, I've not voiced concerns.

Other concerns that I have not voiced: There was one math test where she did not read the problems to the kids, she just handed them the test and had them do it themselves (the fourth week of first grade). She sends home independent level readers for the kids to read at home (which bugs me in itself b/c I was always taught to send home the kids' instructional guided readers)-- the readers are labeled with DRA levels, but they are not accurate. My DS was sent home two different books labeled as a DRA 4, they seemed a little difficult, so I typed the titles into Scholastic's Book Wizard. One was listed as an 8, and one was listed as a 10. Anyhow, it's just been one thing after another, and it's only the 9th week of school. I haven't brought up any of these other concerns, but I'm just getting more and more frustrated with this teacher. --Katie

 

[dimimi]

I am a special education teacher. (No, I don't think your child needs special education.) I do think that reversals are common in 1st grade. I would say the examples you gave make it obvious that your child new it was 10 20, etc. Also, it is silly to make the whole question wrong for one reversal.

How about a compromise. Why not allow your child to have the numbers written on his desk, then he can check to make sure he wrote them correctly. Or the teacher can show him the minor mistakes before grading them.

To me, the teacher needs to think about what she is grading. Is she trying to understand if he understand the number sense...or is she grading for reversals.

I advocate for kids all of the time. Of course grading is always an issue. We have teachers that make the kids learn the 50 states. Then...if they spell a state wrong...they count it wrong! Or the teachers would do that with the Periodic Table. The students would need to know the symbol and the name of the element. Then, if they spelled the element wrong...they would mark it wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[#1hoosierfan]

Just an observation about DRA levels..... they can be off by at least one. The reading series that we use has leveled readers. The DRA level that they have listed is one level too hard. Therefore, if a student is at an independent 8, we will often use the 8 for and instructional level..... we sometimes bump that down a bit more for non-fiction which is usually always harder the student to read/comprehend.

Number reversals I never counted wrong. Mirror writing rarely occurred. I would have called your son up and asked him to do answer the problem orally for me.... that way I would have known if he knew the answer.

 

[moopdog]

No input really, just a little surprised to officially hear of the "mirror" thing. My daughter did this with words in preschool (her name mostly) where she would spell her name nosidam (for madison) and each letter would be backwards. Just this week, I dug out her halloween drawing from that year to hang up for decorating and we were amused because her ghost has a word bubble saying "oob". I just never knew it was something lots of kids did. Interesting.

 

[ekatiel]

No input really, just a little surprised to officially hear of the "mirror" thing. My daughter did this with words in preschool (her name mostly) where she would spell her name nosidam (for madison) and each letter would be backwards. Just this week, I dug out her halloween drawing from that year to hang up for decorating and we were amused because her ghost has a word bubble saying "oob". I just never knew it was something lots of kids did. Interesting.

It's developmental. Most kids outgrow it by 8 or 9. Even when I taught third grade, I did not count off for reversals. I don't remember encountering mirror writing, but it is also within the realm of normal for young kids.

My hubby is dyslexic (he obviously overcame it b/c he's got a master's degree in nursing and is a nurse practitioner now )-- he mirror wrote all the time as a child, so my DS has got it coming. He hasn't had a terrribly hard time learning to read yet-- I work with him a lot at home to keep him on level (another reason why the "below level" progress report was so upsetting), but I do see a lot of dyslexia-like traits in my DS. He's going to be the kid who has a hard time learning to spell, has trouble memorizing things in sequence, etc. This teacher doesn't seem to cut anyone any slack in her grading, so I'm guessing we'll have a year full of low grades . --Katie

 

[MineMail]

My daughter did this with words in preschool (her name mostly) where she would spell her name nosidam (for madison) and each letter would be backwards. Just this week, I dug out her halloween drawing from that year to hang up for decorating and we were amused because her ghost has a word bubble saying "oob". I just never knew it was something lots of kids did. Interesting.

That's a treasure - how cute!

I think partial credit for reversed numbers/misspelling is appropriate, but I'm not/was never a teacher.

How about a compromise. Why not allow your child to have the numbers written on his desk, then he can check to make sure he wrote them correctly. Or the teacher can show him the minor mistakes before grading them.

Does the teacher have wall decorations showing the correct numbers and letters? You could suggest that he check his work against them, to be sure they match. (Would that work, at a distance?)

Sorry for butting in, I really just wanted to chime in about the OOB drawing ...

 

[crashbb]

I have dysgraphia and often wrote my numbers (and letters backwards). I did have tools in place to help me (at this age, the biggest help was the a piece of masking tape across my desk with the number 0 to 9 and letters). I could use them to check against my work. However, if I handed something in that had the numbers wrong, I'd lose marks (just like any other child).

 

[marmalade]

It's developmental. Most kids outgrow it by 8 or 9. Even when I taught third grade, I did not count off for reversals. I don't remember encountering mirror writing, but it is also within the realm of normal for young kids.

My hubby is dyslexic (he obviously overcame it b/c he's got a master's degree in nursing and is a nurse practitioner now )-- he mirror wrote all the time as a child, so my DS has got it coming. He hasn't had a terrribly hard time learning to read yet-- I work with him a lot at home to keep him on level (another reason why the "below level" progress report was so upsetting), but I do see a lot of dyslexia-like traits in my DS. He's going to be the kid who has a hard time learning to spell, has trouble memorizing things in sequence, etc. This teacher doesn't seem to cut anyone any slack in her grading, so I'm guessing we'll have a year full of low grades . --Katie

I understand where you are coming from so please do not take this the wrong way. If the teachers cut everyone some slack what would be the point of grades. The kids who did really well would just blend in with everyone else because the kids who didn't perform as well were given some slack and received the same grade as a kid who completed the assignment correctly.

 

[Cindy B]

I'm sure that the number line is posted within the classroom.
There are some very "literal" teachers meaning if a student does not have specific accomodations, it is definetely wrong.

Since your child does not have an IEP, the teacher/administration may not accommodate a specific number line on their desks. If they do, consider it a bonus and go on from there.

Perhaps some home support for numbers may be in place. You may be able to find numbers poster or something like that and have it posted in your home.

 

[HsvTeacher]

Just an observation about DRA levels..... they can be off by at least one. The reading series that we use has leveled readers. The DRA level that they have listed is one level too hard. Therefore, if a student is at an independent 8, we will often use the 8 for and instructional level..... we sometimes bump that down a bit more for non-fiction which is usually always harder the student to read/comprehend.

Number reversals I never counted wrong. Mirror writing rarely occurred. I would have called your son up and asked him to do answer the problem orally for me.... that way I would have known if he knew the answer.

This is what I did when I taught first grade and had students who were reversing. When I taught second grade, I would cut them some slack the first month of school, then I started counting off points after that.

 

[mello]

I would have called your son up and asked him to do answer the problem orally for me.... that way I would have known if he knew the answer.

Ditto this.

Also, my dd 8 is in 3rd grade and still reverses her 5's. She used to reverse most numbers, but it has gotten better. We homeschool, so grades aren't an issue for us, but I just continuously have her rewrite all the reversals.

I sympathize with your situation - it is so hard to disagree with your child's teacher's educational philosophies! Especially when you're a teacher yourself. (BTDT). I'm not sure that I'd make an issue out of this, but it does sound like you may need to evaluate whether grades are going to be an important issue for you this year. I'd be inclined not to worry much about grades in 1st grade, and to resign myself that he's going to get "low grades" this year, unless there's a problem you forsee with that, such as a stigma following him the next year, or needing good grades this year to get into a special program or something like that. If there's a reason to be concerned about his grades, perhaps you might look into transferring him to a different class?

 

[mrs.beast]

Teacher here. K and previously 1, and 2nd. Also parent of a first grader.
I would like to begin by saying that I understand your frustration. However, it seems to me all but one of your issues could be a district/school/publisher issue, not a teacher issue.

Many of the things that parents dislike in our school are district mandates (like the fact that we have to teach our kinders how to bubble in answers so that they can take the publishers math tests three times a year-which is a waste of time and has no hands-on component which is essential in the primary grades.)

It sounds like your child is struggling, and you are not very receptive to hearing it. With the issues/scores you have listed, your child would be in intervention by the second week of Oct. in our district. Our progress report grades/scores are done by computer. We input the scores, and a progress report, based on district expectations, is generated. If our first grade teacher put in a 3 now, that child would be considered "below standards" by the "computer" and it would reflect so on the progress report. If a child is "below standards" they are put into intervention.

A 3 is fine the first few weeks of school, but by Oct. it is below grade level. Even though your child met the standard, on the low end, he/she is no longer meeting it because expectations rose. A 6 by Oct is not unusual being that they need to be somewhere between a 14-18 by the end of the year in most districts.

Finally, the books can vary in a single level. I have easy 3's and hard 3's. It is not the teacher who levels the books, but the company. It is just different as the Fancy Nancy beginner books being level 1, but have all of the traits of a level 3 (about a 14-16 DRA). The books in our book room, which are leveled by the company which we purchase them from can vary drastically, and I still use them all. I am also only allowed to use 2 specific books to test for each level, one is hard and one is much easier. Some teachers are tough and only give the hard one, some let the children choose, and some give the easier book. My partner always gives the easy books at the end of the year so her children all leave on level. Our first grade teachers always reassess her students because they know this and it has caused them problems with parents (when children are considered lower in first than they were in K).

Please try and remember the teacher is trying to help your child meet the expectations of the school/district, not annoy you or pick on your child. Work with her instead of against her. If you have already made a fuss about the progress report (which is not a big deal anyway-its first grade, who cares, Harvard will never know), you are already on her radar as being one of those parents

 

[torinsmom]

I teach preK/K and I think by 1st grade, a child should be writing the digits in double digit numbers in the correct order. Yes, she could probably figure out that 02 was 20, but what about when your child writes 31 for 13 or 47 for 74? When does the leniency end?

I would agree with you on the reading issue. You shouldn't be told one thing one week and something else the next. I AM surprised that DRA3 is considered on level for 1st grade though. My kids are expected to be at DRA 4 or better by the end of the K year. Kids can score differently depending on their performance on the comprehension, retelling and fluency portions of the assessment, which is why your child's reading level may have decreased.

 

[momtosam]

Sorry, but it would be marked wrong in my classroom.