Prediction re AKV Maintenance Fee Increases?

[Scotch]

While I am interested in AKV, one key point holding me back is the anticipated increase in maintenance fees. The current $4.62/point is comparable to the other DVC resorts; I must assume it would be significantly higher than the other DVC resorts in years to come with the need to maintain both a portion of the current savannah and an entire new savannah! None of the other DVCs will have all those animals to take care of so it is unrealistic to think the m/fs would be roughly in the same range as the other DVC resorts. Does anyone know how much it costs to take care of all those animals each year? Or are the DVC owners not responsible for all of that upkeep, at least not in its entirety?

 

[LisaS]

I looked at it this way -- AKL is one of the least expensive deluxe resorts (along with WL), much less than BC, YC, BWI or the Poly. If caring for the animals is a huge expense, then wouldn't the hotel rates at AKL reflect that?

Several of the resorts have unique expenses, for example BWV has the boardwalk entertainment, BCV has a more expensive pool complex and they both have the expense of the friendship boats. I'm not sure that caring for the animals is going to be out of line with some of the unique costs at other resorts, but that's just my own opinion -- I have no data to back that up!

 

[Scotch]

I looked at it this way -- AKL is one of the least expensive deluxe resorts (along with WL), much less than BC, YC, BWI or the Poly. If caring for the animals is a huge expense, then wouldn't the hotel rates at AKL reflect that?

I wouldn't even use that as a basis for comparison because the hotels are run at a different model. For all we know Disney makes a smaller (percentage wise) profit on AKL for each room because of the expense of the animals. But for DVCs, the members bear the expenses for such common amenities (unless the docs are written such that the DVC members are not solely responsible for that portion of the expenses).

Several of the resorts have unique expenses, for example BWV has the boardwalk entertainment, BCV has a more expensive pool complex and they both have the expense of the friendship boats. I'm not sure that caring for the animals is going to be out of line with some of the unique costs at other resorts, but that's just my own opinion -- I have no data to back that up!

I just can't see the pool upkeep of BCV or the entertainment of BWV as anywhere near as costly as the upkeep of all the animals in the two savannahs -- medical, food, specialized labor, etc. And do DVC owners pay for the BWV entertainment or the stores there? The boats' expenses can't come anywhere close to the animal upkeep either and that is likely shared by all the neighboring resorts, including the BWI, BC & YC, Swan & Dolphin. But no other hotel will be sharing the not-yet-built savannah #2 and it sounds like DVC will be bearing some responsibility for savannah #1 as well.

Seriously, I'm surprised that I haven't seen someone else start this discussion given how many folks here appear to be buying right now. We love AK and I think it would be so neat to take some of our DVC vacations there. We've never stayed at AKL (or any other onsite resort) since we always want at least a 1BR (and usually get 2BR) and the Disney resort prices for suites are way too much for us. I'm not worried about getting a unit during the 7 month mark after AKV is built out since it will be so big, but I'm considering getting some points to guarantee a couple days of 11 month-out reservations for savannah view or maybe those value rooms. Having just paid our 2007 m/fs on our existing points (with a slight ouch), I can't help but consider the long range impact on our annual expenses AKV may have if we're looking at $$$ here to take care for the animals.

 

[Pennyguy23]

Is there a % ceiling? Meaning a point that it can't go any higher then that. Like lets say in 2030 could it be at 15%?

 

[Scotch]

Is there a % ceiling? Meaning a point that it can't go any higher then that.

That's the question I should have asked as well! So do any of you new AKV owners know if the docs say anything about maximum % fee increases each year for this resort?

 

[pilferk]

Just one thing:

My understanding is that there won't be a "new" savannah. The Sunset Savannah will be vastly expanded....and, as such, is a "shared" amenity with AKL. It looks like all of AKV's rooms will be "sharing" savannahs with AKL..which has to bring the overall cost down on a per point basis.

I highly doubt that Disney would sell AKV with a set maintenance fee and then yank the rug out by hiking it up unreasonable percentages. It would be bad business. I would suspect they will hike the fees by the pretty standard % per year they have been.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Just one thing:

My understanding is that there won't be a "new" savannah. The Sunset Savannah will be vastly expanded....and, as such, is a "shared" amenity with AKL. It looks like all of AKV's rooms will be "sharing" savannahs with AKL..which has to bring the overall cost down on a per point basis.

I highly doubt that Disney would sell AKV with a set maintenance fee and then yank the rug out by hiking it up unreasonable percentages. It would be bad business. I would suspect they will hike the fees by the pretty standard % per year they have been.

AKV will have it's own savanah, and yes, we will be responsible for animal care costs. I asked those questions yesterday when I talked to my guide. Remember that there is a cap on the percentage that dues can increase each year as per the POS.

 

[pilferk]

AKV will have it's own savanah, and yes, we will be responsible for animal care costs. I asked those questions yesterday when I talked to my guide. Remember that there is a cap on the percentage that dues can increase each year as per the POS.

Really?

Because the actual schematics for the building don't show that, at all.

They show it sharing a vastly expanded Sunset Savannah with AKL.

The savannah for AKV would be the space directly between AKV and AKL.

I just don't see where there would be an AKV "exclusive" savannah.

 

[dianeschlicht]

It will look like it's connected, but he said those "invisible" fencelines they have will be used, and that the DVC animals will be seperate from the Sunset savanah animals, but it will look like one big open savanah, much like it does on the Safari ride.

 

[pilferk]

It will look like it's connected, but he said those "invisible" fencelines they have will be used, and that the DVC animals will be seperate from the Sunset savanah animals, but it will look like one big open savanah, much like it does on the Safari ride.

Hmm, that's interesting....I wonder why they're doing that?

I mean, the two entities are already going to have to split maintenance on the animals to some extent for the savannah view (at least) AKV rooms in the main lodge.

I wonder why they'd choose to split up the Sunset Savannah and not do the same thing? Ah well, I'm sure there's some odd fiscal reason to do it....

 

[keliblue]

Hmm, that's interesting....I wonder why they're doing that?

I mean, the two entities are already going to have to split maintenance on the animals to some extent for the savannah view (at least) AKV rooms in the main lodge.

I wonder why they'd choose to split up the Sunset Savannah and not do the same thing? Ah well, I'm sure there's some odd fiscal reason to do it....

I know that if I had a savannah view, I would want to see animals Maybe this way they can keep an even amount on both savannah's rather then all congregating at one end or the other

 

[LisaS]

I wouldn't even use that as a basis for comparison because the hotels are run at a different model. For all we know Disney makes a smaller (percentage wise) profit on AKL for each room because of the expense of the animals. But for DVCs, the members bear the expenses for such common amenities (unless the docs are written such that the DVC members are not solely responsible for that portion of the expenses).

I'm sure Disney factored in the cost of the animals back when they first proposed building AKL (the hotel). I can't imagine they would have ever built AKL if they knew going in that operational expenses would prevent them from making a decent profit on it. And I don't necessarily agree that there are huge costs associated with looking after the animals. Yes there are the costs of food and medical care and maintenance of the savannah. Those are not going to be astronomical costs. AKL and AKV would simply not be viable if that were the case. And there will be a lot of owners to share the cost, whatever it might be.

The starting dues are in line with the other hotel-based DVC resorts. I'm betting that they've done their homework, they have several years of experience running AKL so they know what it costs to care for the animals and they have set the dues accordingly.

I just can't see the pool upkeep of BCV or the entertainment of BWV as anywhere near as costly as the upkeep of all the animals in the two savannahs -- medical, food, specialized labor, etc. And do DVC owners pay for the BWV entertainment or the stores there?

I'll bet it costs quite a bit to operate and maintain SAB, especially the costs of all the lifeguards, keeping it heated in the winter, etc. And re: the entertainment on the Boardwalk, somebody has to pay for the musicians and jugglers, etc. who entertain out on the boardwalk. I would imagine the BWI/BWV pick up part of that expense but as I said I don't know that for a fact -- I just don't think that Disney gives anything away for free!

Seriously, I'm surprised that I haven't seen someone else start this discussion given how many folks here appear to be buying right now. We love AK and I think it would be so neat to take some of our DVC vacations there. We've never stayed at AKL (or any other onsite resort) since we always want at least a 1BR (and usually get 2BR) and the Disney resort prices for suites are way too much for us. I'm not worried about getting a unit during the 7 month mark after AKV is built out since it will be so big, but I'm considering getting some points to guarantee a couple days of 11 month-out reservations for savannah view or maybe those value rooms. Having just paid our 2007 m/fs on our existing points (with a slight ouch), I can't help but consider the long range impact on our annual expenses AKV may have if we're looking at $$$ here to take care for the animals.

If you are that concerned, then wait a few years before buying in. See if you can get what you want at the 7-month window for the next few years. Then you can monitor the dues increases during that time and see if your concerns are valid. If they are, just continue to book stays at 7 months. If after a few years the dues are still within an acceptable range, take advantage of any incentives towards the end of the sales cycle or pick up a contract on the resale market. AKV contracts don't expire until 2057 and they won't even finish construction of the new part of the resort until 2009 so you have a few years to ponder whether buying in is right for you or not.

 

[pilferk]

I know that if I had a savannah view, I would want to see animals Maybe this way they can keep an even amount on both savannah's rather then all congregating at one end or the other

Good point...looking at the schematics it looks to be roughly 2x the size of the AKL Arusha savannah so maybe the animals converging on one side or the other would be an issue.

 

[Scotch]

If you are that concerned, then wait a few years before buying in. See if you can get what you want at the 7-month window for the next few years. Then you can monitor the dues increases during that time and see if your concerns are valid. If they are, just continue to book stays at 7 months. If after a few years the dues are still within an acceptable range, take advantage of any incentives towards the end of the sales cycle or pick up a contract on the resale market. AKV contracts don't expire until 2057 and they won't even finish construction of the new part of the resort until 2009 so you have a few years to ponder whether buying in is right for you or not.

Yes, that is my alternative. I'm just trying to assess the value of the $93 buy in cost right now (and I would want exactly 100 points) and the possible increase (even on resale market) that I'll have to pay for a smaller contract in a few years. If there is a % cap on the m/fs that would help me in my evaluation. It is just hard to believe that no one who have already jumped into the AKV purchase had asked this question -- at least re what DVD has set as a m/f cap on annual increases. Has anyone asked???

 

[Stitch 03]

I just think they do not want the DVC animals mingling with the 'common' animals.

So will the dues go up every time a zebra gets sick.

Will there be a contingency fund or the possibility of special assesments because DVC decides its time to buy a new giraffe.

 

[keliblue]

I just think they do not want the DVC animals mingling with the 'common' animals.

So will the dues go up every time a zebra gets sick.

Will there be a contingency fund or the possibility of special assesments because DVC decides its time to buy a new giraffe.

Maybe we can get it used

 

[tubtruck]

Yes, that is my alternative. I'm just trying to assess the value of the $93 buy in cost right now (and I would want exactly 100 points) and the possible increase (even on resale market) that I'll have to pay for a smaller contract in a few years. If there is a % cap on the m/fs that would help me in my evaluation. It is just hard to believe that no one who have already jumped into the AKV purchase had asked this question -- at least re what DVD has set as a m/f cap on annual increases. Has anyone asked???

I imagine it will be the same as that it is for all the other resorts a maximum of 15% per year which is the highest increase that the law allows.

 

[LisaS]

I wonder why they'd choose to split up the Sunset Savannah and not do the same thing? Ah well, I'm sure there's some odd fiscal reason to do it....

In addition to the reasons posted about making sure there are animals within view, they also have to separate animals that do not get along. I know that they also separate the boys and the girls for obvious reasons. So there are many reasons why what looks like one big savannah may actually be divided into separate sections.

 

[LisaS]

It is just hard to believe that no one who have already jumped into the AKV purchase had asked this question -- at least re what DVD has set as a m/f cap on annual increases. Has anyone asked???

Not that I want to give you more things to worry about but given the big story in the news today (the devastating tornadoes in central Florida) when I ponder buying more DVC points, I'm usually more concerned about the effect hurricanes and tornadoes would have, not just to the dues but the possible loss of use of the property while extensive repairs are made.

 

[Scotch]

Not that I want to give you more things to worry about but given the big story in the news today (the devastating tornadoes in central Florida) when I ponder buying more DVC points, I'm usually more concerned about the effect hurricanes and tornadoes would have, not just to the dues but the possible loss of use of the property while extensive repairs are made.

Eeks, I didn't even know about the tornados until you mentioned it! For some reason I only think of hurricanes as a regular threat in Florida, which is bad enough; I somehow missed the fact that tornados go through there as well. How terrible for those living there. You are right, I should consider the possible loss of use of property more. I do when I consider Florida beach area timeshares, but I always forget when it comes to Orlando for some reason.