Preacher endorsing a Candidate???

[Fitswimmer]

Hillary Clinton received an endorsement today from one of the most prominent black ministers in the country-the Rev. Calvin Butts of the Abyssianian Baptist Church in NYC. As far as I know, Senator Clinton is not a member of the congregation there, although she was expected to attended services today. I don't know whether or not she will be speaking.

I was thinking about this at Mass this morning. Tuesday is the anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision and if you went to Mass today, you probably heard at least a sentence or two about the evils of abortion. However, what I did NOT hear and what I have NEVER heard in all my years of Mass attendance was a Priest saying "I endorse Candidate X for President, for Congress, for Senate because he/she opposes abortion." I would feel fairly comfortable betting a large sum of $$ that if Cardinal Egan invited Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney to St Patrick's Cathedral and endorsed them because they oppose abortion there would be a HUGE outcry about separation of church and state and a demand for revocation of tax exempt status. Which I would completely support BTW.

So, my question is WHY is it ok for Rev Butts to do the same thing??

 

[Mkrop]

It isnt!

And I agree in all my years of attending Mass I have never heard an endorsement of a candidate. I have heard them mention "issues" that are important to Catholics and remind people to vote but that is about it, never vot for Mr or Mrs X.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

This certainly isn't the first time that Rev. Butts has climbed up on his soapbox to publicly endorse a candidate. If memory serves, there have been many people, both on the left and the right, who have raised the violation of church and state separation issue, and some even have challenged the Church's tax status as a religious organization. Plain and simple, Rev. Butts just doesn't seem to care. Personally, I wish he'd stick with the community activism and stop with the political endorsements.

 

[OrlandoMike]

On April 23, 2004, a top Vatican cardinal said that priests must deny communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. While he didn't mention John Kerry by name, it was clear who Cardinal Arinze's statement was referring to.

I think the Catholic church has plenty so say about politics in America, perhaps not at Mass, but they do get their views out.

 

[Fitswimmer]

On April 23, 2004, a top Vatican cardinal said that priests must deny communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. While he didn't mention John Kerry by name, it was clear who Cardinal Arinze's statement was referring to.

I think the Catholic church has plenty so say about politics in America, perhaps not at Mass, but they do get their views out.

I have no objection to any church, temple, mosque or religious organization from stating their teaching plainly in regard to the important issues in any election-however, they cannot support or denounce specific candidates.

John Kerry had no trouble receiving Communion from Cardinal McCarrick in Washington DC and in a good many other American churches so it was pretty clear to me that Cardinal Arinze's statement was treated by the American church hierarchy is an opinion, not as a command. It made good news copy at the time, and is still used effectively to enforce the double standard. The Cardinal could have and probably did have a good number of American poltiicians in mind-Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Rudy Guiliani, Jim McGreevy (who was then Gov of NJ), and there are probably others I can't recall.

 

[OrlandoMike]

they cannot support or denounce specific candidates.

Looks like they are denouncing Rudy......Like I said, maybe not at Mass, but they get the word out.....


http://ncregister.com/site/article/2017

 

[Mkrop]

On April 23, 2004, a top Vatican cardinal said that priests must deny communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. While he didn't mention John Kerry by name, it was clear who Cardinal Arinze's statement was referring to.

I think the Catholic church has plenty so say about politics in America, perhaps not at Mass, but they do get their views out.

Views to me are one thing, endorsing one particualr person is wrong. Inviting a candidate to speak from the pulpit is wrong.

 

[Mkrop]

Looks like they are denouncing Rudy......Like I said, maybe not at Mass, but they get the word out.....


http://ncregister.com/site/article/2017

This is an editorial, to me that is different than something "official".

I dont care if Rev Butts or any other religious folk want to get up on stage with a candidate at one of the candidate's rallies. I do think it is inappropriate to invite them into the house of worship to speak from a pulpit

 

[Fitswimmer]

Looks like they are denouncing Rudy......Like I said, maybe not at Mass, but they get the word out.....


http://ncregister.com/site/article/2017

And once again-it's not the same thing as the Rev Butts standing up in his Church at a regular service and saying "I endorse Hillary Clinton for President"

I'm not going to condemn a religious publication for stating their beliefs and contrasting them against the candidates-no matter what religion publication it is. If the Jewish newspapers in Brooklyn want to endorse Hillary or condemn another candidate for not being supportive of Israel it's fine with me. If a Muslim publication in Detroit wants to endorse Edwards because he's going to get us out of Iraq faster and denounce McCain for calling the US a Christian nation, have at it.

 

[december]

I'm joining in this thread because this is something I have a real problem with. I've never attended a church where a candidate spoke or was openly endorsed from the pulpits, but most local candidates go the black churches and speak. They pretty much know this is the only way to get the minority vote. And if you knew how some of these people spoke about minorities in private...........but yet they are all lining up to speak in the months before an election.

At least around here, the democratic party works through the black churches, and the pastors are very politically involved. I believe it is wrong on so many levels, and I don't see how it can be legal. But it happens.

 

[Tink&SquirtsMom]

So, my question is WHY is it ok for Rev Butts to do the same thing??

It's not okay.

BTW, I am a Christian and a Democrat. We moved to this area during the last Presidential Election season, so we were "church shopping." We walked out of many churches who were preaching politics and pushing candidates from the pulpit. None of them were supporting Democrats, but I don't think it is any less wrong when the politics they are pushing happen to be my own. I firmly believe in separation of church and state.

 

[OrlandoMike]

And once again-it's not the same thing as the Rev Butts standing up in his Church at a regular service and saying "I endorse Hillary Clinton for President"

Your right, I've never been to a Mass where a priest has endorsed a particular candidate. But to think that the Catholic church is not involved in American politics is naive....

They are very involved in politics, even if it's through their editorials and non Mass events. Abortion rights, Gay rights, and most recently Immigration are all topics that the Catholic church has very strong political views on.

 

[Chuck S]

While I don't agree with endorsing candidates from the pulpit, or even having politics anywhere near a church, Hillary certainly isn't the first politician to receive such treatment.

Remember that many televangelists use their pulpit to endorse conservative candidates, and their "ministries" are tax exempt, just like physical church buildings.

I wonder if they are getting around this by saying it wasn't part of an actual service, if the endorsement happened before/after ther service. Many church sanctuaries (depending upon the sect, of course) are used for other types of meeting, not JUST church services.

 

[yasmina]

I thought it was against the law for a church to endorse a candidate?

Back in 04, my BIL was editor of their church newsletter. He was forced to resign after he put in the newsletter the article "Jesus Wasn't a Republican" a few months before the general election. Then a few weeks before the election, we got a mailing from the national church organization with a long description of who we should consider voting for. The article never mentioned Kerry or Bush, simply said that voters should vote for the candidate who did this, who believed that, and so on. It was very well written and nicely done. Wish I'd have saved it.

Like teachers in the classroom, politics has no business inside the doors of a church. If a teacher, minister, priest, rabbi, etc., wants to be politically active, it must be independent of, and in no way affiliated with, their profession.

 

[Buckalew11]

I don't want anyone telling me how to vote.

I could not care less who endorses who...I'll make up my own mind who to vote for.

 

[Mugg Mann]

I have no problem with any church endorsing any political candidate...as long as they give up their tax-exempt religious status the moment they do so.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Your right, I've never been to a Mass where a priest has endorsed a particular candidate. But to think that the Catholic church is not involved in American politics is naive....

They are very involved in politics, even if it's through their editorials and non Mass events. Abortion rights, Gay rights, and most recently Immigration are all topics that the Catholic church has very strong political views on.

I didn't intent to say that they aren't involved I know they are, but the line is do they endorse specific candidates and in my experience that has not happened. I've also never heard of a political candidate speaking at Sunday Mass.

I don't have a problem with any religious group talking about how the current political hot button issues align with their particular theology and still retaining their tax exempt status. My issue here is the clear direct endorsement of a candidate by a Pastor and candidates speaking at Sunday services.

 

[shelby22]

Personally, I just wish people would leave politics at the door when they enter church. You're there to worship God or whatever diety you wish and take that out into the world with you. What good does it do for your religion to be bringing in Obama, McCain or whoever you're supporting?

 

[1rockinmamato2]

It's a fairly common practice among churches around here to sway their congregations to vote for one candidate or the other. Of course, many pastors here would believe that if I voted for a candidate who was pro-choice, then the blood of all of the unborn aborted babies would be on my hands too. I'm not stating my beliefs here, just those of some church leaders.

I took great offense recently when my boss sent me an email (with grossly incorrect information) about a candidate. His comments were, "you decide." Thanks! I will. And I'll decide NOT to let you decide for me, you idiot.

 

[OrlandoMike]

I took great offense recently when my boss sent me an email (with grossly incorrect information) about a candidate. His comments were, "you decide." Thanks! I will. And I'll decide NOT to let you decide for me, you idiot.

I've gotten a ton of those emails recently. I have to laugh at them, some of them are so ridiculous!