Potentially new member - big philosophical question

[Brian Noble]

Disney [...] values [...] DVC still came out ahead!

I'd be very interested in seeing how you got to this.

I want to make the purchase so badly I was concerned I was letting that emotion cloud my financial judgment.

You are. So what? If you can afford it with purely discretionary money, buy it. Money is for spending, and that's what "discretionary" means!

 

[Craho]

Sorry if this has already been answered by others. In my calculations to buy into DVC before I made the plunge there is actually a higher return on value for DVC when you get into the larger room categories and this is tilted even more in your favor at the higher end/pricier resorts. Makes sense as a majority of travelers likely go for the traditional hotel rooms and studios are the direct comparison. From what I read here and on Facebook groups it seems like most DVC members/guests are studio focused. As there is more demand/competition for these rooms there is more pressure for the prices to be lower. The cash rack rates jump quite a bit when you go from a regular hotel room into a suite.

For me and my family, we have always preferred to have more room to relax and live in when we vacation so we were already looking for a good value on a suite at a decent resort when we travel but had no luck ever getting one at Disney. Most of the time it seemed like a suite was well north of 1500 to 1800 a night or sold out completely. DVC levels this out and creates value in the long run for us (with a rather substantial upfront investment). We'll likely book 2BRs whenever possible for most trips and I calculated the savings to be in the 100s of thousands of dollars over 15 years (estimating a 5 percent annual increase in dues and 4 percent annual increase in rack rates with a 25% discount on the cash rates - most of my deep dive into the numbers were at VGC, Riviera, and CCV/WL).

We bought 50 points resale and just bought another 100 for this reason. We want to stay in a 2 bedroom every other year and this is where you see the value.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

I have been considering DVC for some time and was dangerously close to making an offer on a resale contract last night (after multiple beers). However, I didn’t want to make a big financial commitment without being totally certain (and sober).

I consider myself a casual Disney fan; 38 years old with a wife and two kids (ages 3 and 1). I see a lot of Disney trips in my future, but probably just every-other-year or even every 3rd year. Even then DVC seems like it makes sense…

… until I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet. Assuming 3% inflation and room rates are always $500/nt (plus inflation) it just about breaks even after maintenance is factored in. It also assumes zero resale value which we know won’t be true (about 10 years would be left on the AKV/SSR contracts after my youngest are out of college).

This still feels like I would come out slightly ahead, staying in villas instead of studios, and give me the “peace of mind” knowing hotel prices are locked in for most of my adult life.

However, part of me is wondering if locking in now is during a historically expensive time.

My question is: why do you own DVC? Do you see it being financially savvy? Is it emotional (assurance, belonging to a group)?

I have never run the numbers on a spreadsheet. But what I do know is, I bought in at BLT in 2010 for 160 points at $120 PP when our kids were 4yo and 1yo. I also bought an AKV contract for 100 points soon after. For various reasons, we sold our points back in 2019.

I was so disappointed in the vacations I could have for the price we were paying, we bought points again Dec. 2020. Staying in a 1 or 2 BR villa is a real vacation. Staying in a small hotel room (I don't care if it's a Four Seasons or a value resort) with my two teenagers, is not a vacation (to me anyway, not judging anyone who enjoys this or takes this type of vacation). We went on a Mediterranean cruise, a trip to Utah, and some cash stays at Disney in the time we didn't own DVC anymore. The amount of money spent was very high (full disclosure: I like luxury hotels). I feel just fine paying my dues on my 310 points, knowing I am guaranteed a 2 BR villa stay each time I want to go to Disney.

 

[tom1944]

I have never run the numbers on a spreadsheet. But what I do know is, I bought in at BLT in 2010 for 160 points at $120 PP when are kids were 4yo and 1yo. I also bought an AKV contract for 100 points soon after. For various reasons, we sold our points back in 2019.

I was so disappointed in the vacations I could have for the price we were paying, we bought points again Dec. 2020. Staying in a 1 or 2 BR villa is a real vacation. Staying in a small hotel room (I don't care if it's a Four Seasons or a value resort) with my two teenagers, is not a vacation (to me anyway, not judging anyone who enjoys this or takes this type of vacation). We went on a Mediterranean cruise, a trip to Utah, and some cash stays at Disney in the time we didn't own DVC anymore. The amount of money spent was very high (full disclosure: I like luxury hotels). I feel just fine paying my dues on my 310 points, knowing I am guaranteed a 2 BR villa stay each time I want to go to Disney.

Exactly

 

[sethschroeder]

Staying in a small hotel room (I don't care if it's a Four Seasons or a value resort) with my two teenagers, is not a vacation (to me anyway, not judging anyone who enjoys this or takes this type of vacation).

My thought is that even at toddler age I don't want them chaperoning us the whole trip. We need some separation. Unfortunately money is not unlimited and many people need to make the choice to be in a studio or they likely couldn't go to Disney at all.

We are just blessed to be in the position we are to be able to make the decision to get a 1BR/2B when going to Disney.

 

[MartyParty]

I have been considering DVC for some time and was dangerously close to making an offer on a resale contract last night (after multiple beers). However, I didn’t want to make a big financial commitment without being totally certain (and sober).

I consider myself a casual Disney fan; 38 years old with a wife and two kids (ages 3 and 1). I see a lot of Disney trips in my future, but probably just every-other-year or even every 3rd year. Even then DVC seems like it makes sense…

… until I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet. Assuming 3% inflation and room rates are always $500/nt (plus inflation) it just about breaks even after maintenance is factored in. It also assumes zero resale value which we know won’t be true (about 10 years would be left on the AKV/SSR contracts after my youngest are out of college).

This still feels like I would come out slightly ahead, staying in villas instead of studios, and give me the “peace of mind” knowing hotel prices are locked in for most of my adult life.

However, part of me is wondering if locking in now is during a historically expensive time.

My question is: why do you own DVC? Do you see it being financially savvy? Is it emotional (assurance, belonging to a group)?

 

[MartyParty]

I have been considering DVC for some time and was dangerously close to making an offer on a resale contract last night (after multiple beers). However, I didn’t want to make a big financial commitment without being totally certain (and sober).

I consider myself a casual Disney fan; 38 years old with a wife and two kids (ages 3 and 1). I see a lot of Disney trips in my future, but probably just every-other-year or even every 3rd year. Even then DVC seems like it makes sense…

… until I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet. Assuming 3% inflation and room rates are always $500/nt (plus inflation) it just about breaks even after maintenance is factored in. It also assumes zero resale value which we know won’t be true (about 10 years would be left on the AKV/SSR contracts after my youngest are out of college).

This still feels like I would come out slightly ahead, staying in villas instead of studios, and give me the “peace of mind” knowing hotel prices are locked in for most of my adult life.

However, part of me is wondering if locking in now is during a historically expensive time.

My question is: why do you own DVC? Do you see it being financially savvy? Is it emotional (assurance, belonging to a group)?

I have been considering DVC for some time and was dangerously close to making an offer on a resale contract last night (after multiple beers). However, I didn’t want to make a big financial commitment without being totally certain (and sober).

I consider myself a casual Disney fan; 38 years old with a wife and two kids (ages 3 and 1). I see a lot of Disney trips in my future, but probably just every-other-year or even every 3rd year. Even then DVC seems like it makes sense…

… until I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet. Assuming 3% inflation and room rates are always $500/nt (plus inflation) it just about breaks even after maintenance is factored in. It also assumes zero resale value which we know won’t be true (about 10 years would be left on the AKV/SSR contracts after my youngest are out of college).

This still feels like I would come out slightly ahead, staying in villas instead of studios, and give me the “peace of mind” knowing hotel prices are locked in for most of my adult life.

However, part of me is wondering if locking in now is during a historically expensive time.

My question is: why do you own DVC? Do you see it being financially savvy? Is it emotional (assurance, belonging to a group)?

 

[SkampyOne]

I'd be very interested in seeing how you got to this.


You are. So what? If you can afford it with purely discretionary money, buy it. Money is for spending, and that's what "discretionary" means!

I literally went online and priced out the cost for the specific stays I wanted! Then compared to renting DVC points, and then to DVC owner cost. This cost is probably higher than it should for this comparison because I used an average per night cost over the duration of the contract instead of today's cost so in my mind, it's even more striking because hotel costs won't remain at today's rates (does that make sense?). This is all for studio equivalent.

The "insurance" of DVC is great compared to the capricious pricing of hotel stays which seemingly change every week for the exact same dates... Where a hotel was not available, I divided the cost per night over the nights we could actually book.

I did not do a full run down of all resorts but hopefully this is helpful:


If my thinking is totally off base, please let me know!

 

[MartyParty]

Why do we own DVC? Here goes for us.

1) We like the Disney experience and wanted to maximize our time at the resorts and in the bubble. First time my wife (girlfriend at the time went) we stayed off property to save a few bucks. I think we wasted about 8 to 12 hours in walking and transportation. Thus being on property helps reduce time wasted.

2 We had kids…two daughters specifically. We wanted more than one bathroom then, and as time went on a bedroom or two. The privacy makes the trip better for everyone!

3 My wife hates getting up and ready to go look for a place for breakfast. Instead, we will have milk, eggs, butter, pancake mix, etc. delivered to the room on arrival day. Especially love having breakfast at Animal kingdom with a safari view. I’d go out on the balcony with coffee and a cream cheese bagel each morning. Watch the animals with the sunrise while everyone else sleeps or starts to get ready.

4 Our daughters are older, but my wife and I have decided we also still like to go as a couple like before we started a family. Especially for Cali food and wine festival. Try to time it when the weather is fantastic, school is in, crowds are low, and we can hit some of our favorite restaurants.

5 We did and still do maintain a cost spreadsheet thing. If you book 1/2/3 bedrooms at Disney it quickly pays for itself. And if you time the future sell right you’ll come close to getting your initial principal back (not counting time vale of money).

6 Lastly, I’m convinced that the Disney experience will continue to become a more costly premium destination. I’d like for my daughters‘ families to be able to enjoy it and will have them inherit our points. But no strings attached. If they wish to sell one day that’s ok by me.

So wrapping this up, if you book 1+ bedrooms you’re likely to break even. But for us the main driver for owning DVC is enjoyment. It is 100 percent not a financial investment. It is 100 percent enjoyment for us with and without kids!

 

[NVDISFamily]

Looks like I had deleted my "Should I buy VGC" tab so I just did the math again and here are some rough numbers.

520 points purchase price and dues over 15 years = about 211K. This will get me about 11 to 12 nights in a 2BR on the seasons we are most likely to go.

Going cash rack rates on the hotel side over the same 15 year run nets about 466K or if you are more conservative 350K if you assume you can get a 25% discount on stays. I almost never see that on these rooms even available or on sale but just trying to plan worst case. Still a decent savings over the long run. The math was definitely more beneficial to DVC with VGC given the insane rack rates at Grand Cal. Doing some comparisons to Disneyland Hotel tower and guessing what VDH may go for narrows the savings by a bit. Similar story for Riviera.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

We are in a similar position as the OP. I'm 37, wife is 34, and we have three boys, ages 7, 5, and 2. I've posted a lot on these boards about how we arrived at buying DVC late last year. The lodging is either cheaper if you plan on staying in a deluxe for cash or renting points, or you can stay in a deluxe for the cost of a moderate or value resort. Long story short, we booked a week at AoA after visiting in April 2022 as a family for the first time. I remember thinking we would never be able to afford a trip that nice (my parents have DVC and they treated us at OKW.) We invited my parents for the AoA and they told us we might want to save the money and buy DVC resale instead. We found a contract at the Poly we liked and so we bought it. We didn't need to finance it, and had I needed to, I would not have bought it. Yes, buying DVC saves us money on the stay versus the rack rates or renting points, but it does cost us a lot on the actual vacation (airfare, tickets, food, etc.) Our trip in August will run us about $8,000+ before accounting for maintenance fees. And no, we have never spent this much on a vacation, let alone every single year (our finances have seen a nice increase this past year or two and we already save a good percentage for retirement and our boys' college.) It also means we are forced to vacation. While that may seem like a negative (and it might be one day,) it is a positive for my wife and boys, because I'm good at booking a vacation, but I'm terrible at actually following through and going on said vacation. DVC is forcing me to take a vacation and my family cannot be more excited.

 

[Jack Kerouac]

One last thing: the DVC decision will be emotional. It has to be, because you're making the decision with your loved ones in mind. I work in the financial planning world and so much of my life is spent around trying to be rational, looking at spreadsheets, and running Monte Carlo simulations. There's no one way to look at money (spending it, saving it, etc.) Read The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. You will come to grips with knowing that money is psychological and emotional and that's okay. So much of how we treat money has to do with our personal circumstances (both upbringing and time in history.) You don't get to take it with you and life is short. But I can tell you this too: many of the most unhealthy clients we have had somehow live longer than those who exercised and ate healthy. My grandparents are a good example of this. I guess you could say genetics wins? I am okay with trading a larger nest egg later for making memories now while my boys are young. Life is fragile and it offers us no guarantees of a tomorrow.

 

[smrice95]

Why did we buy:

We had done 2 tours and never did it. I have always looked at it, but kept reading on posts that if you don't go for 2 weeks in one year it isn't worth it. You don't read that anymore! On our trip before DS went off to college, we were going to stay at the Caribbean. From a past trip, we decided that value hotels were not for us because people who were at the resort when we were disrespected "rules" (We spent time watching strangers kids who bobbed in the water and couldn't see a parent watching them. Life guard came over and then took over. At a night time swim we left the pool early because drunk parents pulled the lifeguard chair over close to the pool and allowed their children to jump off it into the 4 feet water. We did not want to be around when something happened. This is when we said no more value resorts.) Last minute my DH asked someone we knew if they wanted to rent points they had. We agreed to a one bedroom at OKW. When they went to book there was no one bedroom so we had a 2 bedroom. My kids were in heaven and so were we! We ended up getting an offer to do a tour and took it. We took it realistically for the $100 GC and to be nosy and see the Poly bungalows, While the guide was speaking I kept thinking (from the field of dreams) "if you buy it the grandkids would come!" We decided to buy in because we love Disney and both our children still love Disney as late teenagers. We allowed them to be a part of the decision and they said they would love to continue coming back. We only stayed in Poly studios once since buying in 2016. We have stayed in one bedroom and 2. Bought another contract resale. What we love is that family comes with us and my nephews from Florida come and stay with us. The family time is priceless.

Last year I met my son down in Disney for a weekend get away. We did not go into the parks, but that weekend was amazing. We have many memories and we know many will come in the future. Now I just need my children to marry partners that love Disney as much as we do! If I sold today, I would get the full purchase price back for both contracts and I feel the value of dues for the rooms was well worth it. One contact in my mind is paid for according to my spreadsheets, while the other one will be paid for soon.

 

[5kidsmommy]

When our kids were young we vacationed in WDW around every 3 years. We looked into DVC a few times before we joined. We didn't see a savings. Plus two of our progeny weren't really into theme parks. Our extended family members felt Disney was too expensive and not worth the trip.

Our third time we looked into DVC I got my husband to agree to attend a presentation. The presentation was very low key. The guide admitted that if we continued to stay in moderates, value or off-site hotels we would see a high rate of savings. She was very clear on the DVC only being a room and any other savings - like tickets and events - were perks that would go away on some mystical Disney schedule. Seeing that we were interested in more than the theme parks we walked around Saratoga Springs (the location of the presentation center) and showed us the amentias (community room, laundry facilities, lounges) so we could see DVC was comparable to typical timeshares. At this point in our lives we were visiting WDW as a couple at least twice a year to make the most of our annual passes and we were staying in the higher end hotels to be within walking distance of the parks. We decided it made sense to join.

This is where we are at right now. Our kids are grown. Only our youngest still vacations with us and most likely will due to his special needs. We have been going down to Disney twice a year, he usually comes with us every other year. When our kids were all at home we'd only go once a year or every other year and we camped at the Fort. I do wish we would have bought DVC then but honestly we thought we'd stop going to Disney but we now go more than ever. We have been renting points for the past few year. We are going down in a couple weeks and we are going to go walk around a few of the resorts we are thinking of.

 

[NVDISFamily]

We are going down in a couple weeks and we are going to go walk around a few of the resorts we are thinking of.

Setup a tour with a direct guide. We did that and had a great time. Our kids actually had almost just as much fun on our tour than they had in MK or EPCOT. Perhaps our guide could tell we were serious about buying points (we did), but he was a professional and not pushy at all. He was also great with our kids. They will pick you up at your resort and take you around in their vans. They can also set it up to get you on the guest list at a few resorts so you can tour them with the on site guides if you want to drive your own car. We did a tour of SSR (as we were staying there), CCV/BRV, GFV, and Riviera. We also did a tour of AKV on our last day by driving over there to kill some time before heading to the airport.

 

[pineapplepalms]

For me and my family, we have always preferred to have more room to relax and live in when we vacation so we were already looking for a good value on a suite at a decent resort when we travel but had no luck ever getting one at Disney. Most of the time it seemed like a suite was well north of 1500 to 1800 a night or sold out completely. DVC levels this out and creates value in the long run for us (with a rather substantial upfront investment). We'll likely book 2BRs whenever possible for most trips and I calculated the savings to be in the 100s of thousands of dollars over 15 years (estimating a 5 percent annual increase in dues and 4 percent annual increase in rack rates with a 25% discount on the cash rates - most of my deep dive into the numbers were at VGC, Riviera, and CCV/WL).

This is why we bought DVC. Pre-kids, we would pay discounted runDisney cash rates for deluxe resorts or stay at Swan/Dolphin. I discovered DVC after we had our first kid, and it was ideal since we wanted to continue staying in deluxe resorts but wanted more space as we had more kids. We have 3 little ones now and primarily stay in 2BRs, and we love them. I crunched the numbers initially, but haven’t looked back since. We are getting a ton of value out of our points and making the best memories with our kids. Getting to watch the fireworks on July 3rd from our balcony at BLT, watching WoC from our balcony at VGC, seeing animals outside our room at AKV… all such great experiences and we don’t even own at any of those resorts. I like the flexibility to book other resorts even though we do love our home resorts.

The math was definitely more beneficial to DVC with VGC given the insane rack rates at Grand Cal.

In the last couple of years, we’ve been using our points at VGC often since it’s easier for us to travel there. It’s not the easiest to book since we don’t own any VGC points, but we’ve spent a few weeks each year in a 2BR there and it’s one of my favorite DVC resorts now. I should’ve bought there when I first looked into DVC, but instead went the route of buying more points at less costly home resorts. So far that’s worked out well for us, but I’m definitely keeping my eye on VDH. Rack rates at VGC really are insane, and every time we check in for another stay I am grateful we own DVC.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I have been considering DVC for some time and was dangerously close to making an offer on a resale contract last night (after multiple beers). However, I didn’t want to make a big financial commitment without being totally certain (and sober).

I consider myself a casual Disney fan; 38 years old with a wife and two kids (ages 3 and 1). I see a lot of Disney trips in my future, but probably just every-other-year or even every 3rd year. Even then DVC seems like it makes sense…

… until I ran the numbers on the spreadsheet. Assuming 3% inflation and room rates are always $500/nt (plus inflation) it just about breaks even after maintenance is factored in. It also assumes zero resale value which we know won’t be true (about 10 years would be left on the AKV/SSR contracts after my youngest are out of college).

This still feels like I would come out slightly ahead, staying in villas instead of studios, and give me the “peace of mind” knowing hotel prices are locked in for most of my adult life.

However, part of me is wondering if locking in now is during a historically expensive time.

My question is: why do you own DVC? Do you see it being financially savvy? Is it emotional (assurance, belonging to a group)?

We still call dvc the nookie tax. That’s why we bought. I don’t care what anyone says, it’s not vacation if you are sharing a room with your kids once they hit age 4, give or take. If you’re buying dvc for studios to share with kids, you need to rethink your life completely. Lol. As for drinking beer and putting in an offer— that’s probably the best way to do it. Because run the numbers any which way, it won’t make real financial sense. So dive in or don’t. Our one regret is buying some of our points direct. There is no way to financially justify a direct purchase. There used to be with the annual pass deal, but that was even sus (as our college student says).

 

[Douglas Dubh]

We looked for several years before we bought in 2009. Two things happened that moved us to buy. One, found out the wife and kids were gluten intolerant so that made having a kitchen more valuable. Two, BLT came out with a one bedroom that slept 5 and had two bathrooms. Even though I only had two kids, the earlier 1 beds seemed too small as they grew up and a 2 beds seemed too big. In the next few years we added on with GCV and AKL, both of which had the same 1 bed configuration as BLT.

 

[mamaofsix]

Our reasons for buying were 1) Availability 2) Convenience.

We used to stay offsite in a rented pool home, which was cheaper than a DVC 2 or 3 bedroom. However, we wanted the convenience of being closer to the parks and not having to rent a vehicle.

Availability: many multi-bedroom DVC units simply aren't available to book cash through Disney when it comes down to it. Cash booking inventory is very limited. The DVC rental process is too annoying for me. I wanted the assurance of being able to book ourselves.

Where the financial piece did come into play was deciding on resale vs. direct. Direct at VGF ended up being cheaper than resale due to the high resale price, low direct price, and the food / merch discounts we would receive as direct members. We also love the convenience of other direct perks (plus the ability to stay at all future resorts).

 

[Craho]

We are in a similar position as the OP. I'm 37, wife is 34, and we have three boys, ages 7, 5, and 2. I've posted a lot on these boards about how we arrived at buying DVC late last year. The lodging is either cheaper if you plan on staying in a deluxe for cash or renting points, or you can stay in a deluxe for the cost of a moderate or value resort. Long story short, we booked a week at AoA after visiting in April 2022 as a family for the first time. I remember thinking we would never be able to afford a trip that nice (my parents have DVC and they treated us at OKW.) We invited my parents for the AoA and they told us we might want to save the money and buy DVC resale instead. We found a contract at the Poly we liked and so we bought it. We didn't need to finance it, and had I needed to, I would not have bought it. Yes, buying DVC saves us money on the stay versus the rack rates or renting points, but it does cost us a lot on the actual vacation (airfare, tickets, food, etc.) Our trip in August will run us about $8,000+ before accounting for maintenance fees. And no, we have never spent this much on a vacation, let alone every single year (our finances have seen a nice increase this past year or two and we already save a good percentage for retirement and our boys' college.) It also means we are forced to vacation. While that may seem like a negative (and it might be one day,) it is a positive for my wife and boys, because I'm good at booking a vacation, but I'm terrible at actually following through and going on said vacation. DVC is forcing me to take a vacation and my family cannot be more excited.

I’m jealous. We have 3 boys and I wish we would have bought in when they were 7, 5 and 2. And at that time we definitely would have bought BRV (or VWL). They are now 17, 15 and 12 and we finally just bought BWV. They still enjoy Disney but my husband and I will still go alone or bring friends or other family. It’s amazing how quick those 10 years flew.