POTC rules changed for Wheelchairs

[syko]

In case you do not know you are no longer allowed to have your personal wheelchair waiting for you at the end of the ride!!!!!!!
You may take your chair or stroller as a wheelchair to the loading area, but then it will be taken to the entrance of the ride, you will have to use a Disney wheelchair to exit, if there is one available!!!!
I had an argument with the ride manager over this yesterday and he finally agreed that if you really have to have your own chair then you will have to explain why you need your chair to a manager and if they agree then they will arrange for it to be there.
The reason this has come in is that it is a long way for the CMs to push your chair from the loading to the unloading area.
Well I have decided that I will not ride POTC anymore as I do not think that I should have to explain why I need to use my personal chair, and that I would hate to have to inconvenience a CM with my chair for 5 minutes, eventhough it is a incoveniece to me every day!!!!!!!

 

[SeaSpray]

Well that stinks There are a lot of us who CAN walk, but who's pain increases considerably with each step. I know it doesn't make sense to a lot of people that just a short distance to walk would/could make such a big difference to us (me!).

I'll be back at WDW in May with an ECV, I'm forgetting now how far inside the attraction we can take the chairs. In fact, in previous years my condition was not as bad as it currently is, so I think I just parked my wheel chair outside, and walked through the ride with everyone else. I know that this year, I won't be able to do that. Do you know specifically where we have to leave the chair, and where exactly it'll be at the end of the ride? Thanks, and sorry for so many questions, but PotC is my all-time favorite attraction and I always try to ride as many times as I can each trip.

Edited to add: Nevermind, I re-read your post and see that you can take your chair right to the loading area.

 

[KPeveler]

I was unaware that they ever let you take your own chair down to the ride area- i thought you always had to transfer to one of their chairs. this is okay when i am with family, but i would never be able to manage if i was there on my own - i cannot push those park chairs at all (it would cause my shoulder to come off - literally!)... i always wondered what someone with a power chair would do if you are alone - how do you get down there?? i would have less of a problem if my chair was in the store by the exit and that is where i got the park chair, but coming out of the exit i had to walk all the way through the store to my chair, and that was not a good thing... i wish disney would come up with a better plan for that ride!

 

[Schmeck]

I would think another reason why they don't want CMs messing with personal wheelchairs is for liability - the wheelchair user could claim the chair was damaged and sue.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I will be having to go to MK and Epcot this week (besides work) and will find out in more detail the accuracy of the original comment, as well as reasons and how things can be handled (especially where the Guest is in a power chair) and will post on this in a few days.

 

[SueM in MN]

That is actually NOT that much of a change and I don't think it is that unreasonable.
It sounds like a clarification of what they have been doing for a long time. The biggest change I can see is that if you have borrowed a 'ride' wheelchair to go thru the queue, they are no longer putting that on the boat with you. (more about why that is probably happening later). The reason for getting a manager involved in the process is probably to assure that the people who absolutely need their wheelchairs to be there when they get off will have a CM available to take it there. When they were trying to bring all wheelchairs to the exit for a while, it was not possible to get them all there in time and some people who could not stand ended up at the exit with no wheelchair. Asking who needs their own wheelchair lets the CMs target their efforts to the people who could not ride unless that was done instead of trying to bring every wheelchair.

They do have wheelchairs available at the entrance to the queue that you can borrow to get thru the queue. If there is not one available when you arrive, you might need to wait for one to be brought back so you can use it in the queue.
The majority of people using a wheelchair in the parks don't need to have their own wheelchair available and could do the attraction with a 'loaner' wheelchair at the entrance. Most of the people renting a wheelchair or ECV at the park or from one of the off-site places could walk from where they exit the ride, up one floor to ground level. There is a moving ramp readily visible and an elevator that you need to ask a CM at the exit about. There are some options besides them bringing your own wheelchair to the exit:

• if you get to the exit and there is no wheelchair waiting for you, you could wait to see if one is brought
• ask to CM to contact someone to bring one/when one is expected
• exit the ride and find a place to sit/wait while another member of your party gets you own wheelchair/ECV from where you left it

Your wheelchair or ECV will be where you left it when you entered the queue. One solution would be to have the person who needs the ECV/wheelchair get a 'ride' wheelchair at the queue entrance and wait there while another member of your party takes the wheelchair/ECV close to the exit. That way, when you get off, the wheelchair/ECV will be close to the exit.

The reason for the 'problem' is that the entrance is in a totally different building from the exit and is down one floor. Because of the distance and floor level change, there is not always a CM free to move the wheelchair from boarding to the exit.
On this map, POC is number 11, just above where it says "Adventureland". By the time you wind your way around the queue, you are close to the tree line on the map (below the 11). The exit is inside a shop, near the restrooms farther toward the top of the map (there is a red icon with a Mickey hand and a male and female icon).
If you use the elevator, you will come out behind the restrooms and have a farther walk.

The first time we went on Pirates of the Caribbean with DD's wheelchair when she was not quite 3 yrs old (she's 22 now), we were asked if she could transfer to one of the WDW wheelchairs for the trip thru the queue. Since she was only 3 and could not sit in one of those wheelchairs; we were able to bring her wheelchair into line and a CM threw it onto the back of the ride car. That is also what they used to do with the 'loaner' wheelchairs; when you got to the exit, the CM at the exit pulled the wheelchair out and you were on your way.
After DD was older and her wheelchair was bigger and heavier, we were told that she could only ride if she used one of the park wheelchairs, which could be put onto the boat.

Those rental/park wheelchairs are very heavy though, so I have a feeling that the reason they are no longer putting the wheelchair on the ride car has to do with injuries to CMs when they were lifting the wheelchairs in and out of the boats. Also, if they are throwing (pretty literally throwing) someone's own wheelchair onto the boat, there is a chance of damage, which might be another reason. (There are OSHA Guidelines about how many pounds a worker is allowed to lift. Many wheelchairs probably exceed that).

On our last trip in October, we talked to the CM at the entrance and explained that DD would not be able to ride in one of the 'loaner' wheelchairs. Not a long explanation, but reasons why she could not. He called a manager on his walkie-talkie and got the OK for us to bring her wheelchair into line with us. When we boarded, a CM took it to the exit and it was waiting for us when we got out. That sounds exactly like what you are describing.

 

[Camster0307]

The first time we went on Pirates of the Caribbean with DD's wheelchair when she was not quite 3 yrs old (she's 22 now), we were asked if she could transfer to one of the WDW wheelchairs for the trip thru the queue. Since she was only 3 and could not sit in one of those wheelchairs; we were able to bring her wheelchair into line and a CM threw it onto the back of the ride car. That is also what they used to do with the 'loaner' wheelchairs; when you got to the exit, the CM at the exit pulled the wheelchair out and you were on your way.
After DD was older and her wheelchair was bigger and heavier, we were told that she could only ride if she used one of the park wheelchairs, which could be put onto the boat.

Those rental/park wheelchairs are very heavy though, so I have a feeling that the reason they are no longer putting the wheelchair on the ride car has to do with injuries to CMs when they were lifting the wheelchairs in and out of the boats. Also, if they are throwing (pretty literally throwing) someone's own wheelchair onto the boat, there is a chance of damage, which might be another reason. (There are OSHA Guidelines about how many pounds a worker is allowed to lift. Many wheelchairs probably exceed that).

On our last trip in October, we talked to the CM at the entrance and explained that DD would not be able to ride in one of the 'loaner' wheelchairs. Not a long explanation, but reasons why she could not. He called a manager on his walkie-talkie and got the OK for us to bring her wheelchair into line with us. When we boarded, a CM took it to the exit and it was waiting for us when we got out. That sounds exactly like what you are describing.

Sue - Are you saying that your DD's wheelchair was waiting for you right as you got off the ride? I've never been allowed to take my DD, in her chair, through the ride queue. One time, we were lead through a back entrance (where some trailers were) to get on the ride; but then the CM took my DD's chair to the exit by the store. I had to carry her off the ride - up to the store. That was quite a distance and very hard to do. Another time, my then-husband carried her through the ride queue, leaving her wc in stroller parking - again, not an easy thing to do. Are you saying I can now keep her in her chair through the queue and have the chair waiting as we get off the ride?

 

[LindaBabe]

Sure doesn't work if you're an ecv rider and alone with no one to push the manual chair, either.

 

[SueM in MN]

Sue - Are you saying that your DD's wheelchair was waiting for you right as you got off the ride? I've never been allowed to take my DD, in her chair, through the ride queue. One time, we were lead through a back entrance (where some trailers were) to get on the ride; but then the CM took my DD's chair to the exit by the store. I had to carry her off the ride - up to the store. That was quite a distance and very hard to do. Another time, my then-husband carried her through the ride queue, leaving her wc in stroller parking - again, not an easy thing to do. Are you saying I can now keep her in her chair through the queue and have the chair waiting as we get off the ride?

We have, but we have only done that once and had to speak to a manager to get that done. The CM prepared us for "no, it won't be possible", before he spoke to the manager. That has happened before; each time we go to WDW, wee usually ask and are told that unless she can transfer to a WDW wheelchair, she won't be able to ride.
My DD is a young adult - 5 feet tall, about 86 pounds and can't walk or stand without someone holding her up, so it would not be possible for her to ride any other way.
It was on our last trip in October 2007.
We have never been brought thru a back entrance (I know the entrance you went in though and they don't use it often because it is backstage).

Sure doesn't work if you're an ecv rider and alone with no one to push the manual chair, either.

That is true, but the way the ride boards and exits, the only way they could work it would be to dedicate someone to push the manual wheelchair for you. That would be considered more than reasonable accomodation and they would not be required to do it.

 

[WheeledTraveler]

That is true, but the way the ride boards and exits, the only way they could work it would be to dedicate someone to push the manual wheelchair for you. That would be considered more than reasonable accomodation and they would not be required to do it.

Why would it be considered more than reasonable accommodation if it's the only way you can ride the ride? I'm like KPeveler in that I cannot push myself in any wheelchair as heavy as the WDW wheelchairs are and I certainly have no interest in having to always go to WDW with someone else just so I can ride POTC. I recognize that the issue is because of how the entrance and exit are set up, but it sounds like as things stand, I'd get stranded somewhere in this sort of situation. I mean, I can transfer to a WDW wheelchair, but it wouldn't do me a whole lot of good.

I'll be interested in what Cheshire Figament discovers about all this.

 

[SueM in MN]

Why would it be considered more than reasonable accommodation if it's the only way you can ride the ride? I'm like KPeveler in that I cannot push myself in any wheelchair as heavy as the WDW wheelchairs are and I certainly have no interest in having to always go to WDW with someone else just so I can ride POTC. I recognize that the issue is because of how the entrance and exit are set up, but it sounds like as things stand, I'd get stranded somewhere in this sort of situation. I mean, I can transfer to a WDW wheelchair, but it wouldn't do me a whole lot of good.

I'll be interested in what Cheshire Figament discovers about all this.

I'm talking about legally. The ADA doesn't require that everything be made accessible, just that reasonable accomodations be made. There is not a requirement that requires a business to provide anyone to assist a guest in a situation like this. So, if they want to, that's nice, but they are not required to by the ADA.

It's the same situation as a Service Dog (SD) or assistance in transferring.
For SD's, if the dog is not able to go on the ride, it is not WDW's responsibility to provide someone to watch the dog while anyone rides. It's the guest's decision whether they decide to skip that attraction, have someone in their party care for the dog while they ride or come without the dog.
For transfers, WDW is not required (and not even allowed) to provide a CM for doing transfers (other than a steadying hand). If someone knows that they only way they can ride is with someone assisting them, it's their responsibility to make arrangements for that.

It would be nice if they were able to do things in a different way - like boarding at the exit, leaving the wheelchairs/ECV at the exit and letting people ride thru to the entrance. For some rides, that is possible and is the way many of the newer rides are set up, but that isn't possible on POC. After the guests get off the boats, the boats go up a steep ramp with just enough space above for the boats (not for passengers).

it sounds like as things stand, I'd get stranded somewhere in this sort of situation. I mean, I can transfer to a WDW wheelchair, but it wouldn't do me a whole lot of good.

I think the reason they are saying it right off the bat and warning people that you could possibly get stranded is that people have posted that they got stranded. They want to make sure people are warned.
And, if they make allowances for people who need their own wheelchair by saying you have to speak to a manage in order to do it, that is reasonable accomodation and also makes it more likely that the people who need their own wheelchair in line won't get stranded.

 

[lovetoscrap]

I am very interested in this also. I have the same ECV and no one to push me problem this coming trip. I will be with my children but they can't push a manual chair through the line with me in it.

Would they at least allow those of us with stamina issues to use the FastPass line in this case? I would probably have to use all that I have in me to make it through the line and back but if I ended up having to stand and wait there is no way I could do it. It will be a busy time of year so the line will probably be long.

There is another thread here about how if you have mobility/stamina issues then they want you to use a Wheelchair/ECV and not ask for a GAC since most rides are mainstreamed--this is a case where the line doesn't accomodate so it would seem that there needs to be some other accomodations made.

I am very interested to hear what Cheshire Figment finds out. My girls really want to go on this ride and I am going to be very unhappy if I have to tell them that we can't go on it.

 

[SueM in MN]

Would they at least allow those of us with stamina issues to use the FastPass line in this case? I would probably have to use all that I have in me to make it through the line and back but if I ended up having to stand and wait there is no way I could do it. It will be a busy time of year so the line will probably be long.

There is not a Fastpass line for POC.
Even if there was, most of the Fastpass lines are not a significantly shorter distance than the standby (regular). The difference is the length of time spent waiting, not the distance.

There is another thread here about how if you have mobility/stamina issues then they want you to use a Wheelchair/ECV and not ask for a GAC since most rides are mainstreamed--this is a case where the line doesn't accomodate so it would seem that there needs to be some other accomodations made.

POC is not a Mainstreamed Line. It is a ride that was opened in 1971 when the park opened and it was not wheelchair accessible. Because of the way it was built, wheelchair accessibility can't be added.
That's a lot different than a Mainstreamed line; the reason WDW says you don't need a GAC with a wheelchair or ECV is because most of the lines are Mainstreamed and are accessible for both wheelchairs and ECVs. In some cases, the regular line was not able to be made accessible, but the Fastpass line is accessible. In a few, the entire line could not be made accessible, so there is a point where people using ECVs or wheelchairs are pulled off for boarding (Haunted Mansion is an example). In a few (like Spaceship Earth), there is not a way to make the regular entrance accessible and there is a wheelchair entrance.
For those attractions, people with wheelchairs and ECVs are sent to the accessible entrance without a GAC because the regular entrance is not accessible.
For POC, the problem is that there isn't a way to bypass getting the wheelchairs/ECVs from the boarding area to the exit.

 

[Figaro]

When we were at WDW in February, I was asked to switch over to a Disney wheelchair and leave my wheelchair at the ride entrance. After my spouse and I explained that I had about one more transfer in me today and that it would be significantly difficult for me to manage in one of their chairs, they allowed me to take my wheelchair through the line. As Den said to the CM....if her wheelchair isn't there at the end of the ride, I will just sit her down on the ground until it shows up.

Fortunately he didn't have to do that.

 

[syko]

I have never had to ask to take my wheelchair and stroller as a wheelchair to the loading area, and then have it waiting at the exit.
Sometimes we would go through the regular line and others when the wait time was 20+ we would be taken back stage.
It was a shock yesterday when I was stopped from entering, I am like some of the other posters I would not be able to push myself in a Disney chair, I did ask the manager (I think his name was James) if they would provide someone to push and he said no, the response I expected because of health and safety.
I'm of to Disneyland in a few weeks, it will be interesting to see if they have changed their rules too.

 

[cmwade77]

Sure doesn't work if you're an ecv rider and alone with no one to push the manual chair, either.

At this point, I would request a CM to push you back to you ECV, I think that is a reasonable accomodation for this issue, luckily here at DL you load & unload in the same spot, just opposite sides of the boats, so wheelchairs actually load from where everyone else unloads.

 

[SueM in MN]

I have never had to ask to take my wheelchair and stroller as a wheelchair to the loading area, and then have it waiting at the exit.

Even though that is what happened to you before, that was not what usually happened. It was the exception to the rule, not the rule.
Most people were asked to transfer to one of the ride wheelchairs or if their wheelchair/stroller as a wheelchair was light and small enough, it might be placed on the boat with them. If their wheelchair could not be placed on the boat and they asked whether they could bring their own wheelchair in line, the common answer was "no" and if the guest pressed, a CM might check with a manager to make sure the wheelchair would be able to get to the exit. The back entrance is backstage and always needs a CM escort, so it is not used often.
(I say this from what we have seen over the years, from what people have posted and from PMs I have exchanged with CMs who worked there over the years).
My best guess is that with the recent renovations to POC, the attraction has become busier and it is harder for them to make the exceptions to the rule.

 

[lovetoscrap]

There is not a Fastpass line for POC.
Even if there was, most of the Fastpass lines are not a significantly shorter distance than the standby (regular). The difference is the length of time spent waiting, not the distance.

POTC doesn't have Fastpass? I honestly don't remember because I have never needed one. We got lucky last time (right after it had reopned with the new changes) and it had been shut down and when we went back after lunch it had just opened back up so we were able to walk on.

But my question was concerning if the regular line is long--say an hour wait as it can sometimes be. I wouldn't be able to stand on my feet that long in line--as would many other that have stamina issues. I know the line distance is extremely long to walk through, and it would really take all I had to just walk through it with little to no wait time and ride and then get back to my ECV but I would be willing to do that for my kids sake. If there is not even a FastPass option we could use this ride does become completely inaccessable to me if the wait time is longer than about 15 minutes and there is no way for me to sit while waiting. And we are going in early April so I would be surprised to find a wait there of less than 30 mins or so.

This is disappointing.

POC is not a Mainstreamed Line. It is a ride that was opened in 1971 when the park opened and it was not wheelchair accessible. Because of the way it was built, wheelchair accessibility can't be added.
That's a lot different than a Mainstreamed line; the reason WDW says you don't need a GAC with a wheelchair or ECV is because most of the lines are Mainstreamed and are accessible for both wheelchairs and ECVs. In some cases, the regular line was not able to be made accessible, but the Fastpass line is accessible. In a few, the entire line could not be made accessible, so there is a point where people using ECVs or wheelchairs are pulled off for boarding (Haunted Mansion is an example). In a few (like Spaceship Earth), there is not a way to make the regular entrance accessible and there is a wheelchair entrance.
For those attractions, people with wheelchairs and ECVs are sent to the accessible entrance without a GAC because the regular entrance is not accessible.
For POC, the problem is that there isn't a way to bypass getting the wheelchairs/ECVs from the boarding area to the exit.

I certainly understand that Sue. Disney is kind of stuck here. And it leaves those that travel by themselves or without another adult to help them stuck also. I do see this both ways as you have explained here. I am frustrated that we may not be able to ride because of this, but as you explained with the SD example that may just be how things are for those that travel alone.

 

[lovetoscrap]

Hmmm, going back and reading this I have just realized that I was going to be out of luck anyway. This change only has to do with personal wheelchairs, not ECV's. I guess there was/has never been a way for ECVs to go through the line anyway. But I guess I still feel like they need to figure out some way that guests like me and others that can only stay on our feet for a very short time can still ride if we don't have anyone to push a loaner manual wheelchair. Even if we can be brought in and given a place to sit until it is our "turn" when the line is long.

But I sure don't have the answer to that!

I guess the best I can come up with for tonight is that I push the manual chair and then just sit down in it when the line isn't moving. That ought to get me a whole bunch of dirty looks and nasty comments!

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

Why can't ppl who must have wheelchairs just load at the exit?

Last time I went my friend, who was using an ECV, was in the First Aid Station resting (she was in too much pain to carry on the rest of the day) when I went on POTC, so I don't have any experience with access for an ECV on that ride. Just me and my service dog (whose favorite ride was POTC, by the way! I think it's 'cause they added Johnny Depp and even though she is spayed, she ain't stupid! LOL).