Possible solution to TSA @ MCO

[sam_gordon]

I've recently flown in/out of Tampa. For those who haven't been through that airport, you don't go through TSA until after you've taken the train to the outlying terminal (thereby cutting down the number of people going through a single TSA checkpoint.

For the terminal we were in (E), they had two people checking IDs feeding three scanner lines for non pre-check and a single ID check and single scanner for pre-check folks (I thought it was strange that you had to present BP just to board the train, then again when you got to TSA, but that's another issue).

Would that work/help at MCO? It's been a long time since I've flown out, but from what I remember the security areas at MCO are shoehorned into a small area and a lot of people have to go through. Would moving security to the outlying terminals help?

Granted, Tampa's outlying terminals serve 15 gates while MCO has 30(?) at each of theirs.

Thoughts?

 

[bumbershoot]

Would that work/help at MCO? It's been a long time since I've flown out, but from what I remember the security areas at MCO are shoehorned into a small area and a lot of people have to go through. Would moving security to the outlying terminals help?

No I don’t think it would help. There’s no room when you get off the “monorail”, and then you’d back up into people waiting.


I don’t consider the space at mco to be the issue. The issue is the people working there. They are, hands down, the most nonsensical tsa group I have come across. Literally contradicting each other in earshot of each other. Making less sense than tsa makes anywhere.

My apologies to the tsa employee here on the boards. I’m sure you’re the one making sense. I’m sorry that your colleagues will then immediately contradict you with what travelers should be doing.

 

[Carriemel]

No I don’t think it would help. There’s no room when you get off the “monorail”, and then you’d back up into people waiting.


I don’t consider the space at mco to be the issue. The issue is the people working there. They are, hands down, the most nonsensical tsa group I have come across. Literally contradicting each other in earshot of each other. Making less sense than tsa makes anywhere.

My apologies to the tsa employee here on the boards. I’m sure you’re the one making sense. I’m sorry that your colleagues will then immediately contradict you with what travelers should be doing.

I'm not, thankfully, at MCO.

 

[Disney Ron]

2 months ago we joined TSA PreCheck and used it last week for the first time at MCO and in 5 minutes we went through security and were on the monorail to the terminal.

Well worth the price.

 

[joelkfla]

2 months ago we joined TSA PreCheck and used it last week for the first time at MCO and in 5 minutes we went through security and were on the monorail to the terminal.

Well worth the price.

There is no monorail at MCO. There are Automated People Movers, which ride on wheels on a flat guideway, not on a monorail beam. Tampa has both APM's and a monorail, which serves long term parking.

 

[Disney Ron]

There is no monorail at MCO. There are Automated People Movers, which ride on wheels on a flat guideway, not on a monorail beam. Tampa has both APM's and a monorail, which serves long term parking.

C'mon joe, you know what I meant. Thanks for the correction.

 

[sam_gordon]

Tampa has both APM's and a monorail, which serves long term parking.

The monorail we took to long term parking (and then on to rental cars) was not on a rail.

 

[joelkfla]

C'mon joe, you know what I meant. Thanks for the correction.

I know, but us monorail fans get a little frustrated with people calling all APM's monorails.

The monorail we took to long term parking (and then on to rental cars) was not on a rail.

In truth, I've never been to Tampa Airport. But from what I've read, they have both "Long Term" and "Economy" parking. The Long Term garage is the one served by the monorail, which has been there for years. The brand new SkyConnect APM (not monorail) serves the Economy parking and the new rental car facility, using the same Mitsubishi trains serving the new South Garage & under-construction South Terminal at MCO.

The monorail's beam is not free-standing like the WDW Monorail, but appears to rest on the floor of the guideway, so it may not be apparent that the train is running on a beam unless you look closely.

 

[sam_gordon]

I know, but us monorail fans get a little frustrated with people calling all APM's monorails.

In truth, I've never been to Tampa Airport. But from what I've read, they have both "Long Term" and "Economy" parking. The Long Term garage is the one served by the monorail, which has been there for years. The brand new SkyConnect APM (not monorail) serves the Economy parking and the new rental car facility, using the same Mitsubishi trains serving the new South Garage & under-construction South Terminal at MCO.

The monorail's beam is not free-standing like the WDW Monorail, but appears to rest on the floor of the guideway, so it may not be apparent that the train is running on a beam unless you look closely.

Gotcha. I had assumed economy parking was the same as long term. My mistake.

ETA: I shouldn't have said "monorail" because what we took was definitely NOT a monorail.

 

[writerguyfl]

No I don’t think it would help. There’s no room when you get off the “monorail”, and then you’d back up into people waiting.

This is true. The people mover dumps you directly into the retail space. There's literally no room to put security screening.

Plus, you'd have to have two separate screening areas because the exits are on the outside and the entrance (to go back to the main terminal) is on the inside. (You can see the blurry "Do Not Enter" sign on the left. That's one exit. The other would be just off the image to the right.)

-----

Complete Speculation: I'd guess that if the trains were to remain outside of security in this plan, the airport would need to add fencing along each of the four lines to keep it separate from the sterile area.

Theoretically, someone could board a train with a weapon and engage an emergency stop before it reached the airside terminal. Without fencing, they could break a window and use emergency exit stairs to get to ground level. Now you have an unscreened person(s) with a weapon inside the sterile area.

 

[sam_gordon]

This is true. The people mover dumps you directly into the retail space. There's literally no room to put security screening.

Plus, you'd have to have two separate screening areas because the exits are on the outside and the entrance (to go back to the main terminal) is on the inside. (You can see the blurry "Do Not Enter" sign on the left. That's one exit. The other would be just off the image to the right.)

-----

Complete Speculation: I'd guess that if the trains were to remain outside of security in this plan, the airport would need to add fencing along each of the four lines to keep it separate from the sterile area.

Theoretically, someone could board a train with a weapon and engage an emergency stop before it reached the airside terminal. Without fencing, they could break a window and use emergency exit stairs to get to ground level. Now you have an unscreened person(s) with a weapon inside the sterile area.

I couldn't remember how much space there was in the airside terminals. However, your other arguments don't hold water because the same problems are in Tampa and they came up with solutions. FWIW, the TSA wait time at Tampa was ~10 minutes (non-pre).

 

[Fangorn]

There's also the issue of sheer volume. TPA had a throughput of about 900,000 passengers in July. MCO had about 4,000,000.

Steve

 

[writerguyfl]

I couldn't remember how much space there was in the airside terminals. However, your other arguments don't hold water because the same problems are in Tampa and they came up with solutions. FWIW, the TSA wait time at Tampa was ~10 minutes (non-pre).

Thank you for completely disregarding my post. I'll be sure to respond in kind.

 

[sam_gordon]

Thank you for completely disregarding my post. I'll be sure to respond in kind.

Oh good grief. I was just pointing out Tampa has the same set up (dual train "tunnels"), so the issue over embarking/disembarking toward the center or outside has already been solved (or at least one way to solve it).

 

[peteykirch]

For an organization that is supposed to have the same guidelines and procedures if you are at a massive airport like in Atlanta, or a tiny municipal airport in Concord, NC there is too much difference in operating procedures across the board.

Leaving my home airport of Newark (EWR) which is a busy airport the TSA seems to have things under control and don't contradict themselves when barking out orders to people waiting in line to be processed. My issue is at EWR they don't scream at you to remove EVERYTHING from your pockets even if it isn't metal, they don't scream at you for not taking your laptop out of a neoprene sleeve which is now allowed.

Compare that to MCO where they berated my GF for not taking a balled up tissue out of her pocket as she went through the body scanner. Also, if the body scanner can't tell the difference between a wadded up tissue or something dangerous, it's clear that these machines are a waste of money and can't do a damn thing correctly. Or the time the one guy berated us for not removing our laptop from a neoprene sleeve, but thank goodness we made sure to put it in its own bin otherwise it might have been the end of days.

Every airport should be ran the sameway when it comes to the TSA since it's a Federal Organization. If the rules are nothing in pockets, then say nothing in pockets. If the rules are electronic devices need to be completely removed from any sort of bag then say so. Don't make it where one airport lets people leave it in a bag, and another demands it to be dug out and put in a bin with nothing else.

 

[EdnaMarieMode]

For an organization that is supposed to have the same guidelines and procedures if you are at a massive airport like in Atlanta, or a tiny municipal airport in Concord, NC there is too much difference in operating procedures across the board.

Leaving my home airport of Newark (EWR) which is a busy airport the TSA seems to have things under control and don't contradict themselves when barking out orders to people waiting in line to be processed. My issue is at EWR they don't scream at you to remove EVERYTHING from your pockets even if it isn't metal, they don't scream at you for not taking your laptop out of a neoprene sleeve which is now allowed.

Compare that to MCO where they berated my GF for not taking a balled up tissue out of her pocket as she went through the body scanner. Also, if the body scanner can't tell the difference between a wadded up tissue or something dangerous, it's clear that these machines are a waste of money and can't do a damn thing correctly. Or the time the one guy berated us for not removing our laptop from a neoprene sleeve, but thank goodness we made sure to put it in its own bin otherwise it might have been the end of days.

Every airport should be ran the sameway when it comes to the TSA since it's a Federal Organization. If the rules are nothing in pockets, then say nothing in pockets. If the rules are electronic devices need to be completely removed from any sort of bag then say so. Don't make it where one airport lets people leave it in a bag, and another demands it to be dug out and put in a bin with nothing else.

The inconsistency is rampant. At LGA we walked through a metal detector- all of us from my 45 yo DH to my 2 yo son, no body scanner, nothing but liquids and electronics larger than a cell phone removed from the bag. Airport FULL of people, through security in roughly 10 minutes from the time I took off my shoes to the time I put them back on.

At MCO, all food had to come out of our bags. One agent at the end of the line said "if you have a lot of food," the next one said "remove food if it isn't easy to see on the scanner" (um, I don't see what you see on the scanner but okay), and the third one said to remove everything in your pockets but nothing about food. I removed all of the food (I pack my toddler's snacks in a large ziplock bag for this reason). As my tray went through the scanner, another agent started barking about how if everyone removes every snack they have we're holding up the line and we'll all be here all day. Another lane over, travelers were getting a lecture about why they should "courtesy push" someone else's bag into the scanner. Last I checked, you were never supposed to let another traveler touch your bag ever or let it out of your sight.

 

[sam_gordon]

The inconsistency is rampant. At LGA we walked through a metal detector- all of us from my 45 yo DH to my 2 yo son, no body scanner, nothing but liquids and electronics larger than a cell phone removed from the bag. Airport FULL of people, through security in roughly 10 minutes from the time I took off my shoes to the time I put them back on.

Not that I fly a lot, but what I've experienced (and seen) is if you have a child 12 or younger travelling with you, everyone in the travelling party goes through the metal detector.

At MCO, all food had to come out of our bags. One agent at the end of the line said "if you have a lot of food," the next one said "remove food if it isn't easy to see on the scanner" (um, I don't see what you see on the scanner but okay), and the third one said to remove everything in your pockets but nothing about food. I removed all of the food (I pack my toddler's snacks in a large ziplock bag for this reason). As my tray went through the scanner, another agent started barking about how if everyone removes every snack they have we're holding up the line and we'll all be here all day.

Now you're back to MCO TSA agents contradicting each other. If I had removed food after being told to, then told I don't need to, I'd point to the agent who told me to and simply say "He's the one who said it had to come out."

Another lane over, travelers were getting a lecture about why they should "courtesy push" someone else's bag into the scanner. Last I checked, you were never supposed to let another traveler touch your bag ever or let it out of your sight.

I can easily "courtesy push" someone's stuff onto the belt... simply push my stuff up against theirs and continue to push.

 

[EdnaMarieMode]

Not that I fly a lot, but what I've experienced (and seen) is if you have a child 12 or younger travelling with you, everyone in the travelling party goes through the metal detector.


Now you're back to MCO TSA agents contradicting each other. If I had removed food after being told to, then told I don't need to, I'd point to the agent who told me to and simply say "He's the one who said it had to come out."
I can easily "courtesy push" someone's stuff onto the belt... simply push my stuff up against theirs and continue to push.

12 and under can go through the detector. Not everyone in your party. Only those 12 and under and one parent go through the detector, so me or DH and our 14 yo would normally go through the body scanner. This was EVERYONE, every traveler, all ages, with or without any children, going through the detector and not the body scanner. Not an issue, just a reference point.

I don't argue with TSA- there's no point and it doesn't make anything go faster. He can make all of the snippy remarks he wants- at the end of the day I won't be seeing him again and if he doesn't want all of the food removed he can let his buddies at the other end of the line know that.

I don't mind courtesy pushing anyone's stuff, but it IS a contradiction to the previous direction and the overhead blaring at you about touching people's belongings and having your luggage out of your sight.

I'm not sure what the issue is here.

 

[sam_gordon]

12 and under can go through the detector. Not everyone in your party. Only those 12 and under and one parent go through the detector, so me or DH and our 14 yo would normally go through the body scanner. This was EVERYONE, every traveler, all ages, with or without any children, going through the detector and not the body scanner. Not an issue, just a reference point.

I'm telling you what MY experience has been... child 12 or younger? Entire party goes through the metal detector. I experienced it with my family and saw it with another family. This happened in multiple airports earlier this month and the same thing happened when my family flew together a couple years ago.

I don't argue with TSA- there's no point and it doesn't make anything go faster. He can make all of the snippy remarks he wants- at the end of the day I won't be seeing him again and if he doesn't want all of the food removed he can let his buddies at the other end of the line know that.

I'm not saying I'd be rude. One of the two TSA officers is obviously wrong. I'll let them sort out who it is and train them correctly. But if someone doesn't get notified, nothing will change.

I don't mind courtesy pushing anyone's stuff, but it IS a contradiction to the previous direction and the overhead blaring at you about touching people's belongings and having your luggage out of your sight.

Not really. If someone's last item is their bag, then my bag, then three bins (shoes, belt, sunglasses in one, laptop in another, tablet in the third), I can push the third bin, which pushes the second, which pushes the first, which pushes my bag, which pushes their bag. I'm "courtesy pushing" their bag without being within 2 feet of it (therefore no touching). And I can keep an eye on my luggage from the line for the scanner.

I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Who said there was an issue? I'm simply telling my experience and what I'd do. Sorry it doesn't match what you would do.

 

[EdnaMarieMode]

I'm telling you what MY experience has been... child 12 or younger? Entire party goes through the metal detector. I experienced it with my family and saw it with another family.

I'm not saying I'd be rude. One of the two TSA officers is obviously wrong. I'll let them sort out who it is and train them correctly. But if someone doesn't get notified, nothing will change.


Not really. If someone's last item is their bag, then my bag, then three bins (shoes, belt, sunglasses in one, laptop in another, tablet in the third), I can push the third bin, which pushes the second, which pushes the first, which pushes my bag, which pushes their bag. I'm "courtesy pushing" their bag without being within 2 feet of it (therefore no touching). And I can keep an eye on my luggage from the line for the scanner.

Who said there was an issue? I'm simply telling my experience and what I'd do. Sorry it doesn't match what you would do.

I have flown 6 times in the last month, and fly nearly monthly and have yet to experience that, and it is not TSA policy. Again, inconsistency. If this is what you are witnessing that's great, but it's not what I have personally experienced traveling with a 2 yo, 11 yo and 14 yo. When traveling with just DH and 2 yo, and my sister both DH and my sister went through the scanner and only I and 2 yo went through the detector and that is the standard setup I have encountered, at 3 airports just this past month. At MCO this week, TSA made it clear that ONLY those 12 and under and ONE parent were going through the detector- this didn't surprise me.

No one said anything about being rude to TSA. It's not my job to train or police them and it doesn't do any favors for me or the people behind me. Is it the end of the world to pull the food out? Not really. TSA's printed policy is that they can ask you to take out anything they want to for screening.

Your tone here is uncalled for. Not once did I mention what I would do, I mentioned what I have witnessed and personally experienced, without taking the rude tone you feel is necessary here. I'm not sure what nerve I struck with you, but no way are you going to convince me that there is anything consistent about the way TSA does business.