Possible good news for offsiters and FP+

[Shaden]

So basically unless you've made FP+ reservations you should just go to Universal where you can get express passes that day for a fee. Better yet, since there's no incentive to stay WDW onsite now, you can stay onsite at Universal and get Express Pass Plus free which is far superior to FP+ and them just show up at WDW parks on the days that seem optimal for whatever FPs you were lucky to get or do rope drops and squeeze in your rides before lines start then go back to Universal to do FOTL.

You are taking my reference to Universal too literally, but essentially, you are still correct.

There is a LOT to do in Orlando. A couple Disney execs have openly said that the entire point of FP+ is to get people to "lock in" days to Disney. That once people have picked out their FP+s, they are far less likely to do other things Orlando has to offer, this also bring them and their spending money for that day on to Disney property. All good things for Disney. That's the point of pre-booking, straight from the horse's mouth.

If someone goes online to book their FP+s and can't get what they were looking for, it sends a lot of negative messages, the potential to not be able to ride that ride (though in reality there would be stand by, although, again, maybe they don't want to wait 2 hours), it may indicate that WDW is "too busy" that day, it might just seem like their ticket wouldn't be worth as much because they were unable to get their FPs.

This in turn, makes doing other things in the Orland area more attractive by comparison. Disney does not want people to show up at the gates and buy tickets, it wants them to pre-purchase their tickets and "lock in" days at WDW. That really is one of the major purposes of the system, that and crowd management.

 

[Laketravis]

This is what I get when I log into MDE, I bought undercover tourist tickets and staying offiste.

What happens when you click the "Make Selections" button? On mine, the first question it asks me is if I have a Disney Resort hotel reservation.

 

[Laketravis]

If someone goes online to book their FP+s and can't get what they were looking for, it sends a lot of negative messages...

That was my original thought as well, that it would be somewhat precarious for Disney to let a guest with "wheels" determine lack of attraction availability in advance and possibly go somewhere else as a result.

But then, Disney already has their money, right?

 

[Shaden]

That was my original thought as well, that it would be somewhat precarious for Disney to let a guest with "wheels" determine lack of attraction availability in advance and possibly go somewhere else as a result.

But then, Disney already has their money, right?

They have their ticket money, but not their spending money ???

Also, aren't tickets refundable if not used ? (I have never tried to or needed to even consider this ...)

Even if not, the message would spread and this would damage the brand, that you bought tickets and heard about this "fastpass thing" but then weren't able to actually book your fastpasses like you were supposed to ... This would be PR badness and in the end cost $$$.

 

[Laketravis]

They have their ticket money, but not their spending money ???

Also, aren't tickets refundable if not used ? (I have never tried to or needed to even consider this ...)

Even if not, the message would spread and this would damage the brand, that you bought tickets and heard about this "fastpass thing" but then weren't able to actually book your fastpasses like you were supposed to ... This would be PR badness and in the end cost $$$.

Agreed - long term harm from the negative experience could be considerable.

But it's still asking me if I have an on-site room reservation. Surely those Disney bean counters aren't smart enough to tease off-site guests into staying onsite by showing them a button for FP+ but then not letting them use it.

 

[Vidia2]

You are taking my reference to Universal too literally, but essentially, you are still correct. There is a LOT to do in Orlando. A few Disney execs have openly said that the entire point of FP+ is to get people to "lock in" days to Disney. That once people have picked out their FP+s, they are far less likely to do other things Orlando has to offer, this also bring them and their spending money for that day on to Disney property. All good things for Disney. That's the point of pre-booking, straight from the horse's mouth. If someone goes online to book their FP+s and can't get what they were looking for, it sends a lot of negative messages, the potential to not be able to ride that ride (though in reality there would be stand by, although, again, maybe they don't want to wait 2 hours), it may indicate that WDW is "too busy" that day, it might just seem like their ticket wouldn't be worth as much because they were unable to get their FPs. This in turn, makes doing other things in the Orland area more attractive by comparison. Disney does not want people to show up at the gates and buy tickets, it wants them to pre-purchase their tickets and "lock in" days at WDW. That really is one of the major purposes of the system, that and crowd management.

Universal is my idea. I wasn't taking it as a suggestion from your post.

My point is, sort of, that now Disney doesn't care about day guests. What's to keep them from showing up at rope drop, doing all their first choices, and then going to Bubba Gump's for lunch and spending the rest of their day (and money) at Universal where they have FOTL passes because they're staying at one of their resorts. Why would they not want to give incentive to day guests to stay all day, to spend money.

Yeah, I get why the whole system is in place but it keeps getting watered down to the point that it benefits everyone and soon will benefit no one.

Anyway, when will the first person be able to actually book under these new options? One day this week?

 

[nugov2]

Agreed - long term harm from the negative experience could be considerable.

But it's still asking me if I have an on-site room reservation. Surely those Disney bean counters aren't smart enough to tease off-site guests into staying onsite by showing them a button for FP+ but then not letting them use it.

But the reverse is if they don't allow offsite access, they see that and say forget you WDW been there done that so now I will buy tickets to universal, SW and other parks that want my dollars and allow me access to park perks even if I don't want to stay at their hotel. Giving on site a perk of 60 + 10 is one thing, but not allowing off site IMO is a huge mistake. People with wheels will drive away as fast as their car can drive them. Again, my opinion. You won't see me waiting in long lines to get a reservation to get on a rider faster...only 3 times. I will go down the street and buy access to get on all rides faster.

Disney has stated this was a park perk, not a resort perk. Changing that now would be a big deal. Off site makes up a huge portion of their guests. They would be fools to alienate them. Again, all my opinion.

ETA that a lot of people who stay off are not on a budget vacation. We spent a ton at the parks and resorts even though we didn't sleep there. We chose off site b/c we won't sleep in a cramped space for a week and anything disney offers is cramped in our view. I would also bet those traveling on a budget whether on or off site spend about the same at WDW. The family scrimping to go stay at pop now put money there and can't afford TS character meals and other resort opportunities...pirate cruises, BBB etc. The family scrimping to go stay off site and now have money to pay for those opportunities. Either way WDW gets the money..it just comes in different ways.

 

[clsteve]

There is a LOT to do in Orlando. A couple Disney execs have openly said that the entire point of FP+ is to get people to "lock in" days to Disney. That once people have picked out their FP+s, they are far less likely to do other things Orlando has to offer, this also bring them and their spending money for that day on to Disney property. All good things for Disney. That's the point of pre-booking, straight from the horse's mouth.


This in turn, makes doing other things in the Orland area more attractive by comparison. Disney does not want people to show up at the gates and buy tickets, it wants them to pre-purchase their tickets and "lock in" days at WDW. That really is one of the major purposes of the system, that and crowd management.

They've also (Rasulo, I believe) stated that there are no plans to hold back FP's for same day. The fact that there are currently some available for same day could be due to many factors- maybe not enough people know and are reserving in advance, for example, since it's early in the process.

If there's starting to be agreement that this is a system geared to first-timers, you can start to see how they've planned it. 60 day advance gives those, "in the know" the ability to grab the in demand attractions (TT, Soarin', TSMM, etc.) while adding numerous attractions to FP+ that didn't need them still gives plenty for the first-timer to select. They really don't know the difference between Maelstrom and Figment.

I'm not saying it's optimal, or that it won't cause pain, just that you can see how the plan made sense to them at the boardroom level.

 

[Vidia2]

So what is the first day that someone will be able to test this?

 

[magicbob]

Why would they not hold some back for day of? It's not anecdotal that they are doing it now. It's fact.

They want to reserve some for people who just show up at a park and buy their ticket that day. Also they want to reserve some so that a limited amount of guests can made changes day-of and still get decent attractions. This will maintain the illusion of flexibility.

I do believe that they are holding some back now. They really had to since off-site and many AP holders had no opportunity to book ahead of time. The real question is, will they continue to do so once everyone is online with advance booking.

A ride with little availability suddenly being available in every time slot may be anecdotal, but I don't think it's thin.

The question, as mom2rtk said, is whether this will continue to be the case once the whole system is entirely rolled out. Personally, I think it will be, although they're probably holding back more now than they will then.



They're still not hitting the guest over the head with "FREE, Fastpass is FREE, yo!" which I think needs to be done, since a lot of people didn't ever get that with old FP. The fact that it's right beside restaurant reservations isn't helping, IMHO.

Not that it's any more "fact" than the rest of this, but I remember someone on here posting (it was a CM) that said there are definitely FPs held back for the day of and that they are released the morning of about 15 minutes before the park actually opens.

I also believe KTP has tested this theory multiple times and even he has "confirmed" it, but again, depends on what you want as fact.

I myself have noticed when I'm there that TSMM FPs read "standby only" the night before, and when I checked in the morning, they were available. But who am I? LOL

Anyway, solid fact, I can't say, but I've seen enough "evidence" to think that this is most likely true.

I didn't say that it wasn't happening. If a CM has stated that they are, then perhaps it's true. If previously "sold out" slots have been miraculous opening up en masse the day of, then it's likely the case. But some people here have merely cited availability on the day of as "proof" that they were holding some back when it may have just been that those slots were never taken due to the number of people eligible to pre-book, etc.

I do agree that the more important question is whether this is being done as a "band-aid" until off-site becomes eligible to pre-book, or if it will continue to be the practice to ensure some availability for people who didn't pre-book for whatever reason. Then it's a whole 'nother can of worms. Discuss.

 

[Shaden]

So what is the first day that someone will be able to test this?

That is a good question, I think people are trying to figure out if the current suggestion that off-siters will be able to book on April 1 is a factor here,

BUT, we wont know if/when they decide to stop holding back same day FPs until... someone with inside knowledge tells us.

Even the fact that they are holding back FPs for same day I -think- is just speculation supported by some good evidence. Unless someone can actually point to someone in WDW management who is quoted on the record ???

 

[strikermiz]

Just my 2 cents...

My family and I have AP and my father is an owner of a townhouse near Disney so we always stay offsite (hey its free right!!) I have been watching the testing very closely because we are planning our next trip for the end of April. When I heard they started testing the off site AP holders last week I made a few ADR's to see if that would trigger anything. On Friday my MDE showed the same screen and the previous persons screen shot. However, that screen shot shows their trip is 5 days to go but it also says they can begin making FP+ reservations on April 9th. Mine says I have 81 days to go and I can begin making FP+ reservations on February 24th

 

[jaman12]

It says I can start making my FP+ selections on April 9th. That's gonna be hard since I arrive on March 1st.

 

[clsteve]

That is a good question, I think people are trying to figure out if the current suggestion that off-siters will be able to book on April 1 is a factor here,

BUT, we wont know if/when they decide to stop holding back same day FPs until... someone with inside knowledge tells us.

Even the fact that they are holding back FPs for same day I -think- is just speculation supported by some good evidence. Unless someone can actually point to someone in WDW management who is quoted on the record ???

Especially since they've been quoted on-record that they don't plan to. If they do come out and say they are, it would be the first time they've shown an executive-level change in course - not necessarily a bad thing.....

 

[magicbob]

That is a good question, I think people are trying to figure out if the current suggestion that off-siters will be able to book on April 1 is a factor here,

BUT, we wont know if/when they decide to stop holding back same day FPs until... someone with inside knowledge tells us.

Even the fact that they are holding back FPs for same day I -think- is just speculation supported by some good evidence. Unless someone can actually point to someone in WDW management who is quoted on the record ???

Especially since they've been quoted on-record that they don't plan to. If they do come out and say they are, it would be the first time they've shown an executive-level change in course - not necessarily a bad thing.....

You did a better job explaining what I was trying to say about there not being definitive "proof" that they are holding some back. They may very well be doing this, but no one "in the know" has verified this. Although someone did mention a generic CM confirming this somewhere... don't know if it was a bus driver.

 

[AmyB2006]

That was not my screenshot but what I see in MDE is very similar (just a different number of days). I have not stayed onsite since this whole FP+ thing started and do not have MagicBands. I do not even have tickets linked yet. However, I do have ADRs. My "days to go" is based on my first ADR.

I have never stayed onsite "Going to Disney after more than 10 years". I do have dinner reservations scheduled, that's why it says 5 days.

So dining reservations seems to be a trigger here. Interesting.

 

[2Tiggies]

I hope they don't hold anything back, but nothing would surprise me. I swear I read somewhere last year that someone speaking for Disney about the new system said they weren't going to hold any back. But I could be remembering wrong, or they could very well change the plan.

I think they had to hold back now because without staying onsite you have been UNABLE to book in advance. Once it rolls out to offsite, ANYONE will be able to prebook. Anyone who waits until the day of to buy tickets will at least have had the opportunity to buy them sooner and prebook FP+ spots and just made a point of choosing something else.

You did read that somewhere; I know because I read it too.

So if everyone gets to book ahead of time, then why make it 60 days? Why not 30? or why not just let onsite guests start booking 10 days out and everything else gets booked on the day? I'm not suggesting that any of the foregoing methods are any better, but I'm having a hard time seeing the benefits, or much sense in this system at all.

Yeah, I get why the whole system is in place but it keeps getting watered down to the point that it benefits everyone and soon will benefit no one.

And you summed that up perfectly in one short sentence!

 

[AmyB2006]

While both of you are correct, there are also people who don't show up until noon, so why not hold some back and release at noon ? There are some people who don't show up and buy their ticket until 4pm, so why not hold some back until 4pm ?

I get what you are both saying, but the logic doesn't really hold out, if the entire point of this system is to "Lock people in in advance" then holding some back for day-of does not make sense. As others have noted, it could/would very probably have the opposite effect. "Oh I can't book the FPs I want for that day, hrm, not a good sign, I think that just became a Universal day"

The people who show up day of, well, they are making that choice, right then, to do WDW. There is much less advantage to giving them FPs, clearly they are "locking themselves in" for that day by buying tickets ... they then walk over to the gate and enter.

For flexibility ? Sure I can see the thought there, but unless they were holding back a significant portion, this wont really add much flexibility, as we were already seeing (with them currently holding some back) FPs were still running out much quicker day of than they used to... we will see even more of this come presidents day weekend.

I too have the feeling this "hold back" was being done to make room for off-site guests, AP holders, etc, while "just in testing" ... once everyone can book in advance, they will be gone, if not immediately, in the long run. Holding them back just doesn't make sense given the aims of the program, and its impact on potential guests who can't get FPs in advance.

Let's be realistic. At some point, you do have to call it what it is. If someone arrived at 4 pm to buy a ticket for that day, (I don't see that happening) then they would be left with whatever is leftover. No FPs or standby or whatever. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. That is a complete over exaggeration of what I'm talking about.

Holding some back, even if just a few, does make sense. You will have people arrive for rope drop the day of and purchase tickets. And although, yes, they are locked in because they're there that day and purchasing tickets to enter, they have no other FP option but the day of. So I don't think Disney will want those people to have zero choices of FP first thing in the morning.

If they're going to advertise the tickets as "coming with 3 FP+" that you can schedule all at once, they have to provide day guests that morning with some kind of option. They release a few in the morning until they're gone. I don't see why that's not a valid concept to you.

 

[nugov2]

You did read that somewhere; I know because I read it too.

So if everyone gets to book ahead of time, then why make it 60 days? Why not 30? or why not just let onsite guests start booking 10 days out and everything else gets booked on the day? I'm not suggesting that any of the foregoing methods are any better, but I'm having a hard time seeing the benefits, or much sense in this system at all.



And you summed that up perfectly in one short sentence!

I think that is why so many on here have been less than enthusiastic about the system. Many on here were raving about a system that isn't even close to the reality. Those of us who thought we understood what WDW was saying understood it would be available to all and limited to 3. That could only mean big limitations on the system. We have already seen some of the limitations in the form of tiering of the FP and adding ones that people who go often know do not need them. I think what someone else posted is that most first timers will not realize that getting a FP for less popular rides is a downgrade when they cannot get Space. They will still see it as they have 3 scheduled and are happy. That is a perk for them and they will be happy about it.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I have a short onsite stay planned but stay offsite for longer trips because of cost and desire for space/privacy. I am very happy things are looking better for offsite guests, although I feel bad for those who have to deal with booking at the parks in the meantime. I hope that those who are happy that FP+ evens the playing field for (onsite) early and late risers will not be upset when the playing field is less uneven for offsite guests.

The 60+10 does exist and gives onsite guests an advantage every day except their check-in day. (I don't know for sure if there's a 10-day limit if your room reservation is longer, but the generally assumption is that it's the same as ADRs.) For example, I check in on April 3for one night. 60 days before April 3rd, I was able to book FP+ for April 3rd and April 4th, my check out day. I booked only April 4th. Obviously, people who, for example, checked in on March 27 for a long stay already were able to book for April 4th a week earlier than I was, so longer stays have much greater advantages.

Of course, Disney could let offsite guests book the number of days on their park tickets as long as they first day they chose (or the first day they had an ADR if that's the current trigger) was within 60 days, thus erasing most of the advantage. And whether this advantage will matter much will depend on questions about human nature that we don't have the answers to.