Poss. suicidal teen and group trip?

[Tiggeroo]

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[Miss Jasmine]

He's better off with you than at home. Maybe it will help him during this very difficult time. {{{HUGS}}} It's so scary dealing with matters such as these. This boy really needs some help, and it sounds like the parents just don't care.

 

[Tiggeroo]

The boy could be exagerating, or making part of this stuff up. I tend to think that no matter what is going on, even if he is at fault, the week off will do him good. The problem is, his school is not getting an Easter break this year due to a late opening and he may have really messed things up at school with so many absences. He is one of the kids who is in and out of my house all of the time. I feel so bad for him, and hate to see him hurting so badly.

 

[CEDmom]

I may be missing something but my first instinct after reading your post is that this kid needs immediate intervention to prevent a tragedy, not a trip to the beach. Is it possible to get him to a hospital?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Only the parents or legal guardians could admit him for evaluation unless law enforcement steps in (depending on the state). Really all that the others can do is be there for him. And Tiggeroo if he is talking about it and has signs that he HAS tried (even if it is for attention) more may need to be done. I am guessing the parents can't be talked to and reasoned with?

 

[Tiggeroo]

CEDmom - I tend to agree. If it was my son I would at least take him in for a throrough physical exam, and psych exam, or most likely admittance into someplace. Unfortunately I don't make the decisions here. I haven't talked to the boy since this happened and he confided in my son, not me. My son did the right thing by going to an adult in a leadership position.

On an off note. What if the parents don't let him seek counseling. What if he needs to be hospitalized and they don't do anything? Is there anything I can do? I have never even met his parents. If they let him, he will have his first counseling session before we leave, and then we can see what the counselor thinks. I am afraid that something will happen while we are away. His youth leader tends to see it as, if I can't go I will do this or this. And not taking him may be the last straw in a very difficult year.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Tiggeroo, we must have posted around the same time. I don't know your state's laws but usually law enforcement can commit someone who is a threat to themselves or others for a psychological evaluation (usually 72 hours). I don't know if it's to that point yet. This young man could possibly get counseling at school if he so chooses. Or maybe a minister or elder in the church could help? This is so sad. I lost a friend in high school to suicide. Except in this case no one expected it until putting the pieces together after the fact.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I don't know if it's to that point yet either. I had my son call his youth group leader. He called the parents and a counselor. The parents claimed to have no idea anything is going on. Just from the times the boy is at my house I knew he wasn't himself. He is not going to school, and after years of playing ice hockey and being courted already by college coaches, he quit. I will talk to the youth leader tomorrow and hopefully by then will know what is going on. Even if his parents let him go on the trip, I would hope he at least gets an evaluation done by then. I just don't know what to do. My son's youth leader is fairly young and inexperienced. He cares, but I hope he makes the right call here. If the boy isn't allowed to go, he is not going, just in case things get worst.

 

[bsnyder]

Unfortunately, I've dealt with something very similar with a boy in my son's group of friends. Including taking him on a trip with us, my son, and 4 other friends, when he was extremely depressed and suicidal. And believe me, I would never do it again.

What did the counselor say about his talk with the parents? They are the ones that need to help him, and I would make sure that all efforts are exhausted to get them involved and make sure they understand the seriousness of this situation. If the counselor doesn't make any headway, I would seek out help at the school guidance office.

I'd also add that I would talk to your son about the limits of how he can help his friend. Your son needs to understand that there is only so much he can do, for someone in this situation. I watched my son and his group go through an enormous amount of guilt over being unable to prevent the destructive actions of a disturbed friend and it was very, very hard on them.

Good luck, and I'll say some prayers for this young man, and your son and his other friends.

 

[Tiggeroo]

Thanks Bet. I'm glad you understand. I don't know what came of the conversation with the parents and counselor yet. If the boy is locked into a safe method of treatment I will not take him unless advised to do so by the counselor.
I feel for my son and his friends. I have watched them go from anger and disgust at the boy, and sympathy and attempts to help and comfort. I have made very clear to my son that he does not control this young man's actions. That when it seems doable he can just be a good friend. And when it reached this point this week it was time to turn it over to a trusted adult. You can offer help but you can't make somebody take it. If things get worst, I do not want these boys to in any way blame themselves. It seems to me that this boy desperately wants help. He knows my son, and I am sure he knew when he went to him it would be told to an adult who could offer help.
It is so tough. I was upset when the boys were righting off this friend because he was difficult, and told them that. But I don't want them to go to the other extreme either.
And I did have in the back of my mind that if things didn't get resolved this way I would call his highschool guidance counselor.

 

[CEDmom]

Your son definitely did the right thing by telling an adult what is going on. Just a thought, but maybe the youth leader could call a local suicide hotline and explain the situation. It would be confidental and I'm sure they would be able to provide insight into the level of risk this boy's actions pose as well as options for a minor w/o parental consent. I'm sorry I didn't say this before but this boy is really lucky to find people who care about him.

 

[bsnyder]

Tigerroo,

I think you understood exactly what I was trying to say, with regard to your son and the other boys. They need to walk a very fine line between standing loyally by a friend in need and not letting themselves get pulled into something that they do not have the maturity to deal with or fully understand. And you are helping them enormously, by making that distinction clear to them.

I will be hoping and praying that the situation improves. If it does not, and you need a sympathetic ear, I'm just a PM away.

 

[Claudia1]

Cuts marks on his arms are a major red flag, even if it is just for attention. If he has allowed himself to do self-inflicted wounds, then he has opened the door for worse things to happen.

I am speaking from experience. When I saw the cut marks on my DD arms a couple of years ago, we raced to her specialists. Her learning disabilities had lead her down the path of depression and low self-esteem, plus affected her judgement. Even with tangible reasons for her actions, her specialists jumped right on it.

I would call the hot-line myself or go to a trusted teacher. If the youth leader is inexperienced, I would try to support his actions in a concrete way.

Prayers being said for all of you tonight.

 

[philaround]

I strongly second what Claudia said about self inflicted cuts. This boy is in serious trouble and needs professional intervention immediately!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[philaround]

PLEASE let us know the outcome. If you still feel uncomfortable with the outcome i beg you to contact the agency in your state that is tasked with the welfare of children. Here in CT it is the Department of Children's Services. While there have been horror stories about these agencys from almost every state they are there to help and usually do.

 

[December99]

The first thing this youth counselor should have done was an involuntary hospitalization which would mean calling the police to have them take him to the hospital and do a petition for hospitalization. That is the case in most states. You need to contact this counselor, tell him what you have heard from this kid or the other kids and sugget a hospitalization. I can't believe this has not been done. When someone comes in our office (I work at a counseling center) and has admitted to suicidal thoughts or actions, that is an immediate flag and if they won't go on their own - we take action to get them there! What the hell is this youth counselor going to do??? Live with him for the rest of his life to make sure he doesn't kill himself? I'm sorry but something is very very wrong with that counselor.

 

[Tiggeroo]

He is not a counselor. He is just a college kid who leads a youth group. This is definitely out of his league. He called the parents and a counselor which were the right first steps. But he is in getting an evaluation today. The youth leader did the best he could for his level of experience. He just meets with these boys once a week to go surfing talk and have a bible study. He just wanted to make sure the boy was safe before he left for a vacation. Or, if the situation was deemed under control to bring the boy on the trip. He didn't want to go away and find that the boy had done harm to himself, or run away from home.