Poly Resale owner, talk me out of Riviera Direct

[jakecaputo]

We currently own 270 PVB resale points across 4 contracts. We're ready to buy more points and are thinking we do 150 direct now to get the benefits, mainly staying at all resorts and a cheaper annual pass. The question is, do we get more PVB or jump into Riviera? We absolutely love the Riviera, it's 100% our style. In fact, that's the main reason we're kicking around going direct.

The resale restrictions are what are holding me back. On one hand, if I have to sell some of my points it would not be my direct points just so I could remain blue card. On the other, if I ever sell ALL of my points then the Riv contract will be a lot harder to move.

Assuming we don't sell ALL of our points, Riviera seems like the way to go. We already have 270 at Poly, so adding 150 at the Riv would get us a second home resort and those points work everywhere. Am I missing anything?

 

[Tatebeck]

We went RIV for our direct points. It is currently the only long term Epcot/Crescent lake DVC resort that survives 2042. And we love Epcot

Since we had resale points already (like you do), we told ourselves that if we bought, it would have to be the last thing we sell in case of an emergency, which we were fine with. The restrictions make Direct RIV a bit more dangerous for a member if they are the ONLY points that the member owns. But I find that it makes a ton of sense if you are younger, love Epcot/Crescent Lake area, have other resale points already, and may want to use the Riviera points somewhere else occasionally.

You may want to wait for the spring or summer incentives to see if they have better deals that come out. Last summer's RIV prices were pretty good, that is when we bought. They got rid of the deals when the Poly Tower went on sale so members weren't steered towards RIV at a much lower price than Poly.

 

[jakecaputo]

it would have to be the last thing we sell in case of an emergency, which we were fine with

I feel that's the boat we're in.

We're actually looking to add on by end of the month because 1) the base price goes up to $235 in February and 2) we have a February use year, so we'd get 150 2024 points and then Feb 1 we'd get our 150 2025 points.

 

[disneylandtour]

We currently own 270 PVB resale points across 4 contracts. We're ready to buy more points and are thinking we do 150 direct now to get the benefits, mainly staying at all resorts and a cheaper annual pass. The question is, do we get more PVB or jump into Riviera? We absolutely love the Riviera, it's 100% our style. In fact, that's the main reason we're kicking around going direct.

The resale restrictions are what are holding me back. On one hand, if I have to sell some of my points it would not be my direct points just so I could remain blue card. On the other, if I ever sell ALL of my points then the Riv contract will be a lot harder to move.

Assuming we don't sell ALL of our points, Riviera seems like the way to go. We already have 270 at Poly, so adding 150 at the Riv would get us a second home resort and those points work everywhere. Am I missing anything?

This is the big reason here: "The resale restrictions are what are holding me back."

Honestly, I'd just wait for some other resort to have a reasonable sale, one without those restrictions.

 

[Tatebeck]

This is the big reason here: "The resale restrictions are what are holding me back."

Honestly, I'd just wait for some other resort to have a reasonable sale, one without those restrictions.

The restrictions only matter because they cause a price drop if and when you ever sell the contract.

Poly and Aulani are the only current unrestricted resorts for sale. And Aulani takes such a hit even without the restrictions it doesn't really count either. So you would be waiting on a price drop on Poly, which doesn't seem likely at this point. They were pushing the market in multiple ways to raise the price and have offered very few incentives.

Every future resort we know of Disney currently plans to have the restrictions, so you may be waiting forever, unless Poly has an unexpected firesale or they have a surprise deal for a sold out resort.

 

[Tatebeck]

I feel that's the boat we're in.

We're actually looking to add on by end of the month because 1) the base price goes up to $235 in February and 2) we have a February use year, so we'd get 150 2024 points and then Feb 1 we'd get our 150 2025 points.

Okay, the Feb use year and the timing of the increase may make it worth it to buy in now before seeing the next couple seasons' prices.

The biggest thing that most people will tell you is to buy where you want to stay. If you have checked it out and want to stay at RIV (where you currently can't), then buy some at RIV. Just don't go overboard.

There are ways to minimize the impact of RIV restrictions in the future. You can sell other resale contracts first in an emergency, which it seems you are okay with. You can also split your purchase into 2 or 3 separate contracts when you buy. Smaller 50-75 point RIV contracts will almost always sell faster and at a slight premium over 150+ contracts. It just costs a few hundred dollars extra to split it. You could also buy a popular week as a favorite week in a hard too book room like a standard studio.

You better make a decision pretty quick either way. The contracts have to be completely signed AND closed before Feb 1st if you want to get double points (2024 and 2025 points). And that can take a few days.

 

[EYL]

We currently own 270 PVB resale points across 4 contracts. We're ready to buy more points and are thinking we do 150 direct now to get the benefits, mainly staying at all resorts and a cheaper annual pass. The question is, do we get more PVB or jump into Riviera? We absolutely love the Riviera, it's 100% our style. In fact, that's the main reason we're kicking around going direct.

The resale restrictions are what are holding me back. On one hand, if I have to sell some of my points it would not be my direct points just so I could remain blue card. On the other, if I ever sell ALL of my points then the Riv contract will be a lot harder to move.

Assuming we don't sell ALL of our points, Riviera seems like the way to go. We already have 270 at Poly, so adding 150 at the Riv would get us a second home resort and those points work everywhere. Am I missing anything?

I've always written this as a reply when people worry about the Riviera resale restrictions. It's worth a reality check that the O14 ALSO have resale restrictions but the impact on its value is not apparent at the moment, since there are 14 resorts to trade into. If people do what they would like to do - own for the life of the contract - then they must remember that as resorts expire starting 1/31/2042, the pool to trade into gets smaller and smaller and the resale value of their contract might go down. "Buy where you want to stay" should always be the mantra.

So if you love the Riviera, buy the Riviera. I did!

 

[disneylandtour]

The restrictions only matter because they cause a price drop if and when you ever sell the contract.

Poly and Aulani are the only current unrestricted resorts for sale. And Aulani takes such a hit even without the restrictions it doesn't really count either. So you would be waiting on a price drop on Poly, which doesn't seem likely at this point. They were pushing the market in multiple ways to raise the price and have offered very few incentives.

Every future resort we know of Disney currently plans to have the restrictions, so you may be waiting forever, unless Poly has an unexpected firesale or they have a surprise deal for a sold out resort.

OKW and AKV both have had fairly recent sales with points that Disney ROFRed. I'd wait for something like that--though maybe at a resort with lower MFs.

 

[Sandisw]

One thing you can do to hedge your bets is to buy RIV in two 75 point contracts.....this way, they are smaller and might sell better if you have to completely divest yourself from DVC.

We love RIV...owning direct and resale, and I think once RIV is sold out, that the prices are going to stabilize in the resale market to some degree.

For us, resale value has never been important and we knew that if we had to sell, RIV would be the last ones to go....plus, anything we get back from selling our contracts, we see as a bonus.!

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

You obviously love Riviera (we do too) so 150 points of risk seems with the risk. You could always rent out points for a year to two as well if strained financially at some point rather than selling. And have other contracts you could sell. It won’t be eons of time until more resorts have the same restrictions and it’s “the norm”.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

One thing you can do to hedge your bets is to buy RIV in two 75 point contracts.....this way, they are smaller and might sell better if you have to completely divest yourself from DVC.

We love RIV...owning direct and resale, and I think once RIV is sold out, that the prices are going to stabilize in the resale market to some degree.

For us, resale value has never been important and we knew that if we had to sell, RIV would be the last ones to go....plus, anything we get back from selling our contracts, we see as a bonus.!

Oo good thought, Sandi! Or even the 50’s. Smaller contracts are always easier to move and for a slightly higher price

 

[Tatebeck]

OKW and AKV both have had fairly recent sales with points that Disney ROFRed. I'd wait for something like that--though maybe at a resort with lower MFs.

They have since stopped ROFRing those. So you can't depend on them having more of those sales regularly. And the resorts that have higher resale prices, better locations, or lower MFs are less likely to have as good of a fire sale. They also had BLT available in the same sale, but it was a TERRIBLE deal.

And even then, both of those resorts have higher maintenance fees than RIV, shorter expirations than RIV, and are already selling at a lower price on the resale market than resale RIV, even with it's restrictions. So what are you really gaining by buying there?

I don't see either of those as a real solution, especially if the goal is to stay at RIV regularly. They would likely have to spend a lot more points and stay in the more expensive view category if they had OKW or AKV points.

It would be a different argument if they were getting RIV for sleep around points, but they are getting them to primarily stay at RIV

 

[intamin]

RIV gets a lot of flak for being the first resort to have resale restrictions and rightfully so, it definitely affects its value and really is not the financially sound purchase if there even is such a thing in DVC. That being said if you love it like we do, it's still worth buying. Those standard view studios don't typically make it to the 7 month window and really the point cost on those are not that bad when compared to some of the monorail resorts.

We actually had both a stay booked in a RIV standard studio and a BW BWV studio last year and they were roughly the same cost and we ended up opting for RIV just because we like the rooms there more with the extra bathroom and etc. Also we had been staying at Boardwalk a little TOO much (we had stayed there the last 2 trips). Yeah RIV isn't within walking distance to Epcot but we love the skyliner and how there's basically rarely a wait because of how efficient it is and because the line is constantly moving it never feels that long compared to waiting for the monorail to show up. We love it so much we bought the giant Disney on demand artwork of RIV (albeit with 40% off thanks to the CM discount) and love it.

Like you if I have to sell, everything will go before I sell my RIV but I don't rely on it as an asset should I be in financial trouble and I think most people should go in with that mindset in general with DVC that the money is not a liquid asset once it's put into DVC.

All this to say, we love the resort and if you do too, you should buy in there.

 

[jakecaputo]

Okay, the Feb use year and the timing of the increase may make it worth it to buy in now before seeing the next couple seasons' prices.

Right. And since the dues are prorated they'd be pretty close to free points.

The biggest thing that most people will tell you is to buy where you want to stay. If you have checked it out and want to stay at RIV (where you currently can't), then buy some at RIV. Just don't go overboard.

Yeah. We've stayed everywhere except OKW and SSR. Riv is definately in our top 2 with Poly. And we stay at the Island Tower in 3 weeks, which we hear is Riv + Poly combined.

You can also split your purchase into 2 or 3 separate contracts when you buy.

Yup, this was 100% my plan regardless of where I bought.

 

[jakecaputo]

With the title of Poly Resale owner, talk me out of Riviera Direct, ya'll are doing a terrible job!

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

We currently own 270 PVB resale points across 4 contracts. We're ready to buy more points and are thinking we do 150 direct now to get the benefits, mainly staying at all resorts and a cheaper annual pass. The question is, do we get more PVB or jump into Riviera? We absolutely love the Riviera, it's 100% our style. In fact, that's the main reason we're kicking around going direct.

The resale restrictions are what are holding me back. On one hand, if I have to sell some of my points it would not be my direct points just so I could remain blue card. On the other, if I ever sell ALL of my points then the Riv contract will be a lot harder to move.

Assuming we don't sell ALL of our points, Riviera seems like the way to go. We already have 270 at Poly, so adding 150 at the Riv would get us a second home resort and those points work everywhere. Am I missing anything?

I think in the majority of cases the worry over resale restrictions is pretty overblown. Not to say you shouldn’t be prepared for the worst but I’d wager the vast majority of owners keep their contracts for a long time, but even if you do sell your direct RIV contract in 8-10yrs, you will definitely make back at least half your cost*. Most resorts you’d buy direct will see their resale value drop nearly that much in those many years, look at CCV. I don’t think Poly will fair all that much better in time. I think the days of seeing returns on DVC “investment” are mostly gone so we’ll always be looking at a significant depreciation of our contracts if sold in short term. And to further point out, as direct continues to increase in ppp (which it will), so will resale prices* to some degree, take that for what you want, gives me a little bit of comfort.

Like others have said, if you love it, definitely go for it! I’d also recommend splitting it into 50-75pt contracts. Based on the current resale market, there are none of (and I really want one!) which means they probably sell pretty quickly and will likely yield a better value. And I agree with @Sandisw, I think once RIV is sold out the new, super high sold out cost will certainly stabilize RIV resale.

*assuming the economy doesn’t fail and DVC, in general, maintains value and keeps up ROFR

 

[eticketplease]

I feel that's the boat we're in.

We're actually looking to add on by end of the month because 1) the base price goes up to $235 in February and 2) we have a February use year, so we'd get 150 2024 points and then Feb 1 we'd get our 150 2025 points.

Since you don't really need the points unless you are dying to get into RIV right away might I suggest Magical Beginnings? That is a $3,000 check that you could turn around and use.

 

[jakecaputo]

Since you don't really need the points unless you are dying to get into RIV right away might I suggest Magical Beginnings? That is a $3,000 check that you could turn around and use.

Oh dang I forgot about that! Definitely something I'll keep in mind. So not only are they free points, we could turn around and take another $3k off our purchase price.

That's another reason for the Riv I suppose, because I know they're not doing that for the Poly (which is kind of why it fell off my radar).

 

[MagicDVC]

Oh dang I forgot about that! Definitely something I'll keep in mind. So not only are they free points, we could turn around and take another $3k off our purchase price.

That's another reason for the Riv I suppose, because I know they're not doing that for the Poly (which is kind of why it fell off my radar).

Totally agree with Magical Beginnings, unless you plan to use the extra, then I would have your "Sales Counselor" bank those points. It's a rebate, so you will get a check in the mail.

If you love RIV, go for it. You can alway downsize your PVB contracts if you need to. Resale restrictions only matter if you plan on selling those RIV points, otherwise they can combine with your PVB resale for any of the O14 resorts as long as they are all within the same membership/UY.

 

[Sandisw]

Oh dang I forgot about that! Definitely something I'll keep in mind. So not only are they free points, we could turn around and take another $3k off our purchase price.

That's another reason for the Riv I suppose, because I know they're not doing that for the Poly (which is kind of why it fell off my radar).

If you are thinking about MB program, you have to buy at least 4 or 5 days before the end of the UY, so with a Feb UY, you'd need to get under contract ASAP...or you won't be eligible for it.