Poly points on sale next week!

[drusba]

But what I do not understand is that a Lake View Studio at VGF during premier season can be 43 points. I do not understand the "minimum" term. Seems like an average to me.

The minimum number in the declarations does not tell you what anything will actually be per night when the resort opens. Instead,it simply tells that you will always find at least "a" night available for no more than that stated minimum regardless of what point shifting they may do at any time. My understanding, although it is based on rough math, is that the minimum stated in the declarations is what the points needed for the room per night would be if every night of the year were the same number of points. In other words, you are likely correct to think of it as an average and Poly's average for studios overall is going to be higher than VGF while its 2BR bungalows will be the same average as the VGF GV's.

As to the use year question above, by filing the Declarations now in January, Disney could legally sell a use year that begins as early as February 2015 as long as the resort will open in 2015.

 

[DenLo]

Any educated guesses on what UY will be the first to get 2015 points? If it is not opening until April, will it have to be April or later?

The minimum number in the declarations does not tell you what anything will actually be per night when the resort opens. Instead,it simply tells that you will always find at least "a" night available for no more than that stated minimum regardless of what point shifting they may do at any time. My understanding, although it is based on rough math, is that the minimum stated in the declarations is what the points needed for the room per night would be if every night of the year were the same number of points. In other words, you are likely correct to think of it as an average and Poly's average for studios overall is going to be higher than VGF while its 2BR bungalows will be the same average as the VGF GV's.

As to the use year question above, by filing the Declarations now in January, Disney could legally sell a use year that begins as early as February 2015 as long as the resort will open in 2015.

I know with VGF and possibly VGC (I remember members complaining about not getting points the first year due to their UY), the UY's that received the first year's points were 6 months from the date sales began. That would mean October UY and later for PVB. No UY's would receive points for any year prior to 2015 as the PVB was not open in 2014. So April and later use years could not receive points until their UY of 2015.

 

[DVC Mike]

No interest in buying since there aren't any 1-bedroom units.

http://i235.*************************************PVB__DVC.png

 

[corpcomp]

I know with VGF and possibly VGC (I remember members complaining about not getting points the first year due to their UY), the UY's that received the first year's points were 6 months from the date sales began. That would mean October UY and later for PVB. No UY's would receive points for any year prior to 2015 as the PVB was not open in 2014. So April and later use years could not receive points until their UY of 2015.

Well maybe 10 points for my first purchase there

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Prepare yourself for some shockers. The Declarations are now online with the Orange County Comptroller (go to that site and search for document #20150007003 in its document search section). They look a lot like others but my immediate focus went to the minimal guarantee point night. These do not give actual point charts but provide a statement of what will at least be avaialble for at least one night even if points were spread evenly throughout the year. Previously the VGF declarations had the highest number minimum guarantee per room size of all WDW resorts, which then resulted in the highest point charts. For VGF that stated one night guarantee in a studio was 22 points and for that minimum did not distinguish between standard and lake view. Poly will have standard and lake view studios and the stated minimum for standard is the same 22 points but for lake view it is 26. The Poly 2BR bungalow one night guarantee is 147 points, the same as it was for the VGF Grand Villas. In other words, I expect the nightly points when the charts come out to show that the studios are equal to and in some cases possibley higher than VGF and those 2BR bungalows are likely going to match the VGF GV's.

Not shocked here. I thought it was wishful thinking to suggest it would be less than VGF. The bungalows can't just be considered 2 br's even though it is the comparable # of sleeping spots. They are unique accommodations and with prime views and plunge pools (which imo don't sound that great but to each their own). And it seemed like the Poly has been the most requested DVC ever. These days Disney is in a mode of not leaving any money on the table if at all possible.

Now to see how it actually turns out.

 

[rfc0001]

Prepare yourself for some shockers. The Declarations are now online with the Orange County Comptroller (go to that site and search for document #20150007003 in its document search section). They look a lot like others but my immediate focus went to the minimal guarantee point night. These do not give actual point charts but provide a statement of what will at least be avaialble for at least one night even if points were spread evenly throughout the year. Previously the VGF declarations had the highest number minimum guarantee per room size of all WDW resorts, which then resulted in the highest point charts. For VGF that stated one night guarantee in a studio was 22 points and for that minimum did not distinguish between standard and lake view. Poly will have standard and lake view studios and the stated minimum for standard is the same 22 points but for lake view it is 26. The Poly 2BR bungalow one night guarantee is 147 points, the same as it was for the VGF Grand Villas. In other words, I expect the nightly points when the charts come out to show that the studios are equal to and in some cases possibley higher than VGF and those 2BR bungalows are likely going to match the VGF GV's.

These point values are actually maximum reallocation rates, as described at http://dvcnews.com/index.php/compon...ian/2237-grand-floridian-points-chart-preview for the same filing for VGF. Effectively this is the average daily rate for the room type, which you can calculate the actual value of for VGF by taking the weighted average of number of days per season X the daily rate for that season (weekly rate/7). If you do that for VGF you come out with an average daily rate of 22 pts. for Studio Std., 26 pts. for Studio Lake, and 146 pts. for Grand Villas -- compared to the maximum reallocation rates of 22 and 146 respectively - so looks like the actual values are very close to the maximum values, and looks like the 22 stated in the filing corresponds to just the standard view. Since the actual rates for VGF shown above (detailed calculation here) are identical to the maximum reallocation rates filed for PVB (22 Studio Std., 26 Studio Lake, 146 Bungalow), this means the point structure will most likely be identical to VGF Studio/Grand Villas, as depicted in the above spreadsheet.

 

[bookwormde]

From what I can tell the 22 points per night is based on an average of the studios across the year plus about 5-10%.

This makes it so no mater how they were to readjust the point values between weekday/weekend, season and even an reasonable adjustment between villa sizes that they would always have at least one night at 22 points.

 

[jerseyduke]

From what I can tell the 22 points per night is based on an average of the studios across the year plus about 5-10%.

This makes it so no mater how they were to readjust the point values between weekday/weekend, season and even an reasonable adjustment between villa sizes that they would always have at least one night at 22 points.

Exactly. If you have 22 points. You are guaranteed a night. No matter how they do things. It is the average, or mean value.

And this is where I love legal jargon...If they make one night 22 points and every other night 100 points, are they still not satisfying this clause?

 

[CarolMN]

Exactly. If you have 22 points. You are guaranteed a night. No matter how they do things. It is the average, or mean value.

And this is where I love legal jargon...If they make one night 22 points and every other night 100 points, are they still not satisfying this clause?

Except that the total number of points required to reserve every villa for every night of the year is capped and cannot change. So I don't think they could actually do what you suggest.

However, I know you are exaggerating. I think your "principle" is most likely correct. (But I don't think they will do any such thing and predict the actual studio charts won't be too much different from the VGF, since the bungalows are going to "suck up" a lot of the total number of points, maybe as much as the VGF's larger villas do for the VGF).

Looking forward to Monday and the actual charts.

 

[jerseyduke]

I was exaggerating a tad. I only expect them to be 99 points!


But in all seriousness, not that I think its a realistic scenario, I am just trying to understand the systems inner workings.

I know, things are capped. VGF is 2.5 million points. PERIOD. End of sentence.
Things can be reallocated and redistributed, but it still has to total 2.5 mil.

My question/point was, that I do think the 22 and 26 numbers are indeed an average. It is just the legal wording vs. math vernacular.

Can they not determine how many points the PVB will be in total using 22 points for one night and 100 for the rest? Then say, the PVB is that many points? It would meet the requirement. (Point being, that if that is true, the entire statement is useless, as it really does not mean a thing, except on ONE night)

It is not important, and really a moot point, because that is not going to be what happens. I am just assuming that statement means average or mean, but it does not say that in any way, shape or form.


Monday holds all the answers.......

 

[wdrl]

I was exaggerating a tad. I only expect them to be 99 points!


But in all seriousness, not that I think its a realistic scenario, I am just trying to understand the systems inner workings.

I know, things are capped. VGF is 2.5 million points. PERIOD. End of sentence.
Things can be reallocated and redistributed, but it still has to total 2.5 mil.

My question/point was, that I do think the 22 and 26 numbers are indeed an average. It is just the legal wording vs. math vernacular.

Can they not determine how many points the PVB will be in total using 22 points for one night and 100 for the rest? Then say, the PVB is that many points? It would meet the requirement. (Point being, that if that is true, the entire statement is useless, as it really does not mean a thing, except on ONE night)

It is not important, and really a moot point, because that is not going to be what happens. I am just assuming that statement means average or mean, but it does not say that in any way, shape or form.


Monday holds all the answers.......

I think you are on the right path regarding the point allocations. There will be an article shortly on DVCNews discussing some of the items culled from PVB's legal documents filed yesterday with Orange County Comptroller. The article briefly touches on the guaranteed point amounts of 22 for a Standard View studio, 26 for a Lake View studio, and 147 for a bungalow.

I didn't go into much detail in the article because I haven't verified all the numbers, but these point amounts seem to be significant if a resort does a maximum reallocation. I took a closer look at the “Maximum Reallocation” concept and I think (but am not positive) a complete flattening of a resort’s point chart will yield daily point amounts equivalent to the guaranteed nightly point amounts. At VGF, it has guaranteed point amounts of 22 (Studio), 45 (1BR), 61 (2BR), and 147 (GV). If you multiple these amounts by the number of villas in each category (47, 47, 47, and 6, respectively), it totals to 2,517,770 points. I show VGF as having slightly more points: 2,520,800 points. Its a variance of only 0.12%, so its in the ballpark. So PVB’s guaranteed nightly point amounts of 22, 26, and 147 probably reflect its Maximum Reallocation amounts.

I don’t know how many Lake View studios PVB will have. Pago Pago and Tokelau shouldn’t have any facing Seven Seas Lagoon, and Moorea has a maximum of 72 studios on all three floors that are facing the Lagoon. Will the 24 studios on Moorea's first floor be classified as Lake View? If yes, then PVB ends up with 20 bungalows, 288 Standard View Studios and 72 Lake View Studios. This results in PVB ending up with about 4,069,020 points. This would put PVB at 61% larger than VGF and 29% smaller than BLT in terms of points. I didn’t mention any of this in the article because its speculative on my part.

 

[DebbieB]

I know with VGF and possibly VGC (I remember members complaining about not getting points the first year due to their UY), the UY's that received the first year's points were 6 months from the date sales began. That would mean October UY and later for PVB. No UY's would receive points for any year prior to 2015 as the PVB was not open in 2014. So April and later use years could not receive points until their UY of 2015.

The difference is sales started much earlier at the other resorts. VGC started with June use years but didn't open until September. With an April opening, I bet Poly will have all 2015 use years.

 

[mnra]

as a long time owner i dont think I would be buying poly. i simply can;t see how I could justify the cost and seeing how it goes to 2066 I would be 108 when it ends. so even though I hope to be hear then not sue many 108 year old are riding space moutain lol

Enjoy all and good luck if you decide to purchase

 

[DeeCee735]

Prepare yourself for some shockers. The Declarations are now online with the Orange County Comptroller (go to that site and search for document #20150007003 in its document search section). They look a lot like others but my immediate focus went to the minimal guarantee point night. These do not give actual point charts but provide a statement of what will at least be avaialble for at least one night even if points were spread evenly throughout the year. Previously the VGF declarations had the highest number minimum guarantee per room size of all WDW resorts, which then resulted in the highest point charts. For VGF that stated one night guarantee in a studio was 22 points and for that minimum did not distinguish between standard and lake view. Poly will have standard and lake view studios and the stated minimum for standard is the same 22 points but for lake view it is 26. The Poly 2BR bungalow one night guarantee is 147 points, the same as it was for the VGF Grand Villas. In other words, I expect the nightly points when the charts come out to show that the studios are equal to and in some cases possibley higher than VGF and those 2BR bungalows are likely going to match the VGF GV's.

 

[Hollymom1229]

DH and I really want to buy at PVB even though they won't have 1 BDR, but we can always do the connecting studio thing if going with others. I'm a little irritated that they aren't going to release the points chart and price per point until they begin selling. We've discussed multiple times exactly what we want, so all we need is the darn chart to see if it works. The hope is that a 60 pt purchase will allow us to stay 6 - 8 nights at a studio every third year.

 

[jerseyduke]

DH and I really want to buy at PVB even though they won't have 1 BDR, but we can always do the connecting studio thing if going with others. I'm a little irritated that they aren't going to release the points chart and price per point until they begin selling. We've discussed multiple times exactly what we want, so all we need is the darn chart to see if it works. The hope is that a 60 pt purchase will allow us to stay 6 - 8 nights at a studio every third year.

Look at the VGF point chart. Expect Poly to be a tad more. So it depends on your season.

My guess is you will be ok with all but magic and premier season. Magic season standard view is going to be the cut off I think.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

No interest in buying since there aren't any 1-bedroom units.

Our feelings exactly.

 

[rfc0001]

I think you are on the right path regarding the point allocations. There will be an article shortly on DVCNews discussing some of the items culled from PVB's legal documents filed yesterday with Orange County Comptroller. The article briefly touches on the guaranteed point amounts of 22 for a Standard View studio, 26 for a Lake View studio, and 147 for a bungalow.

I didn't go into much detail in the article because I haven't verified all the numbers, but these point amounts seem to be significant if a resort does a maximum reallocation. I took a closer look at the “Maximum Reallocation” concept and I think (but am not positive) a complete flattening of a resort’s point chart will yield daily point amounts equivalent to the guaranteed nightly point amounts. At VGF, it has guaranteed point amounts of 22 (Studio), 45 (1BR), 61 (2BR), and 147 (GV). If you multiple these amounts by the number of villas in each category (47, 47, 47, and 6, respectively), it totals to 2,517,770 points. I show VGF as having slightly more points: 2,520,800 points. Its a variance of only 0.12%, so its in the ballpark. So PVB’s guaranteed nightly point amounts of 22, 26, and 147 probably reflect its Maximum Reallocation amounts.

I don’t know how many Lake View studios PVB will have. Pago Pago and Tokelau shouldn’t have any facing Seven Seas Lagoon, and Moorea has a maximum of 72 studios on all three floors that are facing the Lagoon. Will the 24 studios on Moorea's first floor be classified as Lake View? If yes, then PVB ends up with 20 bungalows, 288 Standard View Studios and 72 Lake View Studios. This results in PVB ending up with about 4,069,020 points. This would put PVB at 61% larger than VGF and 29% smaller than BLT in terms of points. I didn’t mention any of this in the article because its speculative on my part.

Assuming the way maximum allocation is described in http://dvcnews.com/index.php/compon...ian/2237-grand-floridian-points-chart-preview (for VGF) is accurate, it's the average point value across the entire year -- so the weighted average by days per season X daily rate (weekly rate/7) for that season. If you calculate this for VGF, that works out to 22 pts. for Studio Std., 26 pts. for Studio Lake, and 146 for Grand Villas -- very close to the max 22 pts. and 147 pts. respectively stated in the previous article -- and identical to the 22, 26, and 146 max reallocation rates stated for PVB. Therefore, the point charts should be identical to VGF Studio/Grand Villa for PVB Studio/Bungalow. See http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3366323&page=2#post52858513 for detailed calculations.

 

[Chriss928]

If the first occupancy is April, how or when can the rooms be booked? Will they block current members from staying there? How did it work with VGF. I am going in May and staying at BLT but would consider trying out the new resort if it was available. Any thoughts?

 

[rfc0001]

If the first occupancy is April, how or when can the rooms be booked? Will they block current members from staying there? How did it work with VGF. I am going in May and staying at BLT but would consider trying out the new resort if it was available. Any thoughts?

VGF started booking 4 mos. from opening, and non-home window was shrunk to 3 mos. for reservations within the first 2 mos. to give owners a 1 month advantage initially. Since we are already 3 mos. from Apr. 1, I'd expect the non-home window to be 1-2 mos. out for the first 2-4 months (e.g. through July).