Political: Another Abu Ghraib ?!?

[palmtreegirl]

There's nothing wrong with waiting for further evidence. But given the nature of the alleged acts, and their similarity to tactics used in Abu Ghraib, how can you possibly dismiss them out of hand ?And speaking of "innocent until proven guilty", let's not forget that the men making these allegations HAVE BEEN RELEASED, AND CHARGED WITH NO CRIME. That means that they were, in the eyes of the law, innocent.

First off no one said these men weren't released and I know what the term innocent means, so there's no need to post in caps and yell at me. Okay?

On the flip side I believe that because of the fact that these men were held for so long against their will, with no charges, it makes their stories more questionable. Are they using this as a way to get back at us? It's certainly possible that's for sure, I'll wait for more evidence and then decide, thanks.

 

[Robinrs]

Pinch self and check pulse... I agree with STEVE!!!!

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by palmtreegirl


First off no one said these men weren't released and I know what the term innocent means, so there's no need to post in caps and yell at me. Okay?

On the flip side I believe that because of the fact that these men were held for so long against their will, with no charges, it makes their stories more questionable. Are they using this as a way to get back at us? It's certainly possible that's for sure, I'll wait for more evidence and then decide, thanks.

For someone who said they didn't care and were tired of the
whole issue, you've certainly put loads of time in here. I think
that means you do care and I'm glad because I know you through other posts and I could not fathom you not caring!


P.WS. OMG, I agree with Steve too! Life is wonderful!

 

[Saffron]

The reports are just nauseating. They are truly sickening. I just don't understand how anyone can say they don't care. And worse, how they don't care that it happens to "them", but they would care if it happened to "us". That is truly sad. And that is what's heard around the world, that we don't care. I wish the other voices that care can be heard.

I agree with Steve too.

 

[damo]

Originally posted by Saffron
The reports are just nauseating. They are truly sickening. I just don't understand how anyone can say they don't care. And worse, how they don't care that it happens to "them", but they would care if it happened to "us". That is truly sad. And that is what's heard around the world, that we don't care. I wish the other voices that care can be heard.

I agree with Steve too.

You know, you are absolutely right. That is what is heard around the world. I'm glad that I get to hear a lot of different opinions here on the Disboard to make me believe differently.

 

[Pugdog007]

The question is: Does wvrevy EVER post a thread that isn't "Let's bash our government" political?

It's become worse than JJ/VH's propaganda.

 

[Eeyore1954]

I am agreeing with wvrevy, Robinrs, shortbun & Saffron.

*SIGH*

I figured this day would come but it's still sad when it happens.

(Strikes match and sets fire to his Republican Membership Card)

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Pugdog007
The question is: Does wvrevy EVER post a thread that isn't "Let's bash our government" political?

It's become worse than JJ/VH's propaganda.

Normally, I would agree with you, but in THIS case, I'm afraid it is quite justified. (And the answer to your question is YES, he does start and post on other types of threads. He is so very different from jj/VH as to be like night and day.)

 

[disneydad2]

It is true that what's being heard around the world is not good in regards to Americans. However, what also isn't being heard around the world is how the vast majority of Americans do not condone this behavior and are demanding the people responsible be held accountable. This speaks volumes about what is at the core of an American - not the actions of a few. This view will never be portrayed in the world press because it will not serve the purpose of the overall condemnation they want to feel about America - and Americans. But at the same time it is of the utmost importance that we not go overboard in our condemnation of ourselves to where we are aiding our enemy. We shall deal with the problem internally, externally we must continue with a united front. Just my two cents worth.

 

[disneydad2]

.

 

[HollyJoy]

My guess is that this type of thing has been going on for many years, but only now it's coming to the surface. Personally, I agree with PalmTree, I really don't care.

 

[Eeyore1954]

A poem by Lobo Aru for those who just don't care...

I am Apathy enshrined.
Embodied. Personified.
I do not care.
I can't be bothered to ask the right questions.
I haven't gone to appointments.
I don't call, or answer calls.
I don't exert.
I am Unmotivation.
I am Indifference.
I am unconcerned with consequences.
I define Ambivalence.
The only ****s I give splash.
All is petty in the light of my Utter Apathy.
I don't think of what was, or what could be.
I don't even bother with what is.
I am relatively content, and totally apathetic.
Personal hygiene or fitness? Ha.
Why bother? Who cares what I look like?
Who cares what anybody looks like?
Who cares about anything?
Not I. And golly Wally, that's all that matters.
So keep your insignificant concerns and
totally trivial life crises to yourself.
You'll find no pity from my ice cold shoulder.
Oh and hey, if you don't like my attitude,
Guess what?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
If this is true, then we may never be able to recover our credibility in the world community. If it is true, this may be a strong indicator that in some ways we've allowed our fears about terrorist attacks and homeland security to run amok -- so much so that we are willing to show total, utter disregard for human decency and respect. If it is true, it flies in the face of everything that these soldiers fight for and hopefully believe in.

As horrible as this scandal might be, what could make it worse is the "I don't care" attitude. I completely understand the feeling and respect it. Anyone is entitled to feel that way.

But I am afraid that if we surrender to that feeling, we may be inadvertently giving our own silent "OK" to what has happened. In effect, we are ratifying what has been done... in the name of homeland security.

My fear is if we are willing to do this to non-U.S. citizens and we are willing to affirm it this way, what will we say and do when it starts happening here at home? I just hope we don't become too jaded to be horrified at abuse like this and turn away from it.

If it is true, it must be exposed and those responsible brought to justice.

That's a lot of "if's".

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
That's a lot of "if's".

Would you prefer that I edit my post and change every if to since?

Fortunately, at this point, these are just allegations, hence the use of the word "if". However, given what happened in Iraq, my fear is similar or maybe even worse activities went on at Gitmo.

I hold a small hope that these allegations are not true, but Abu Ghraib was a tough lesson to learn and we've been in charge of Gitmo a lot longer.

 

[TigerBear]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
And I can't believe I am saying this, but if these allegations are true, then it's possible that Pres. Bush should lose his job also.

I can hear the pain in your voice...


I have a question. How can anyone doubt that the men in Gitmo are prisoner's of war and thus are subject to the Geneva Convention?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
Would you prefer that I edit my post and change every if to since?

Fortunately, at this point, these are just allegations, hence the use of the word "if". However, given what happened in Iraq, my fear is similar or maybe even worse activities went on at Gitmo.

I hold a small hope that these allegations are not true, but Abu Ghraib was a tough lesson to learn and we've been in charge of Gitmo a lot longer.

No. Because I don't want them to be true either. So until I see more on it, I'll hold on to my "if's".

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by TigerBear
I have a question. How can anyone doubt that the men in Gitmo are prisoner's of war and thus are subject to the Geneva Convention?

That has been debated on the DIS a lot and like most debates few minds were changed in the process. Suffice it to say, some people accept the designation of "enemy combatant", which is taken to mean that the GC does not apply... therefore, we can "legally" do stuff like torture and abuse and not violate any rules.

For me I'm not sure what is more frightening: (a) the idea that our gov't. at the highest levels would not only condone these actions but approve them or (b) that there are actually some Americans, albeit a minority, who truthfully do not care. Either one is just too scary to ponder for very long.

 

[TigerBear]

So, its just us taking the moral high road.

 

[cats7494]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
For me I'm not sure what is more frightening: (a) the idea that our gov't. at the highest levels would not only condone these actions but approve them or (b) that there are actually some Americans, albeit a minority, who truthfully do not care. Either one is just too scary to ponder for very long.

I totally agree.

This thread has saddened me..I can not believe that there are people who actually do not care! That is outrageous!

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by TigerBear
So, its just us taking the moral high road.

I spent time reading the debate over this and understand the arguments on both sides. As for the moral high road ... I'm afraid "we" lost that when the antics at Abu Ghraib were exposed.