Poker (Anyone play? Professionally?)

[ButchJohnson]

I was kicking around the idea of playing Poker professionally, right now its just an idea, not a for sure plan or anything. Was just wondering if there are any other poker players on here, professional or what not, and if so how well do you do, don't worry about coming across as bragging, this is all anonymous.

Also, anyone just like to play for fun, got any strategies that you want to kick around?

 

[KimR]

I don't, but my DH loves poker. He does very well when he plays with his friends or at some of the sports bars in town. A few years ago he went to Vegas to play in the World Series of Poker and lasted all of about 5 minutes. I don't know if it was that he was playing with much more competent players or if it was just plain bad luck - naturally, he insists he got lousy cards. He wants to try again, but I don't think he's ready to quit his day job yet.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I play, not professionally, but in small tournaments and at a local casino every couple months (plus the usual home games with buddies). I do pretty well for the most part and one day would love to play in a larger tournament to test my skills.

 

[hydster]

Just don't get the "teacher" Boston Rob got for his desire to play professionally in Vegas!

 

[hiwaygal]

not me personally...but my uncle played professionally. I'm not sure if he still does.

It was pretty cool to look up his name on the internet and see all this stuff written about him on different poker sites.

I think his first year (2004) he won about $10,000 and his second year (2005) he won close to $90,000.

 

[Jestocost]

From all I have read, the life of a professional poker player is not at all glamorous and something of a grind. There are very few consistently successful tournament player, who get most of the fame, and even fewer successful "high stakes" players. Most winning "pros" are grinding out one or 1.5 big bets per hour in profit (on average) at mid-stakes ($30/$60, $40/$80) limit games.

One of the biggest issues is being properly bankrolled. Most pros, including the big time ones, have gone busto one or more times in their careers. A rule of thumb would be to have 300 big bets for limit and 30 or more buy ins for no limit. That means a minimum bankroll—which means not your rent money or money you need for anything else and can't afford to lose—for a mid-stakes limit or no limit player is $20,000 to $25,000. Don't even think about being a tournament pro in the big $5K and $10K events with less than $500,000 of your own money to lose or someone to stake you.

If you've never visisted the 2+2 Forums, you can get some good insight there.

 

[Mono~rail]

I was kicking around the idea of playing Poker professionally, right now its just an idea, not a for sure plan or anything. Was just wondering if there are any other poker players on here, professional or what not, and if so how well do you do, don't worry about coming across as bragging, this is all anonymous.

Also, anyone just like to play for fun, got any strategies that you want to kick around?

Have you been watching Rounders or too much Travel Channel?

FWIW, I think you'd probably do much better to keep your regular job and just play poker for fun.

I like to play, but I do much better in tournaments - my "style" works better for tournament play. Could be because dh taught me how to play, and he prefers tournaments.

 

[ButchJohnson]

Just don't get the "teacher" Boston Rob got for his desire to play professionally in Vegas!

Yeah I've been watching that too, were you just joking about that guy? He seems like he knows what he's doing to me. Not Boston Rob the professional poker player guy thats teaching him.

 

[pearlieq]

From all I have read, the life of a professional poker player is not at all glamorous and something of a grind. There are very few consistently successful tournament player, who get most of the fame, and even fewer successful "high stakes" players. Most winning "pros" are grinding out one or 1.5 big bets per hour in profit (on average) at mid-stakes ($30/$60, $40/$80) limit games.

One of the biggest issues is being properly bankrolled. Most pros, including the big time ones, have gone busto one or more times in their careers. A rule of thumb would be to have 300 big bets for limit and 30 or more buy ins for no limit. That means a minimum bankroll—which means not your rent money or money you need for anything else and can't afford to lose—for a mid-stakes limit or no limit player is $20,000 to $25,000. Don't even think about being a tournament pro in the big $5K and $10K events with less than $500,000 of your own money to lose or someone to stake you.

I can't echo everything this poster said enough!

The thing about poker is that it's a nice place to visit but you really don't want to live there. It's boring as all getout (there's a reason you see so many IPODs at the tables), you're playing one hand an hour, sucking up smoke, dealing with drunks, and more and more playing with internet crazies who saw the WSoP on ESPN and are now convinced they're pros even though their play defies all reason.

It has its moments, but it's really not much of a life. Keep your day job and just enjoy a few trips to Vegas or a sit-n-go on the weekends.

 

[ButchJohnson]

I can't echo everything this poster said enough!

The thing about poker is that it's a nice place to visit but you really don't want to live there. It's boring as all getout (there's a reason you see so many IPODs at the tables), you're playing one hand an hour, sucking up smoke, dealing with drunks, and more and more playing with internet crazies who saw the WSoP on ESPN and are now convinced they're pros even though their play defies all reason.

It has its moments, but it's really not much of a life. Keep your day job and just enjoy a few trips to Vegas or a sit-n-go on the weekends.

I hear ya, thanks for the advice, you're probably right.

 

[hydster]

Yeah I've been watching that too, were you just joking about that guy? He seems like he knows what he's doing to me. Not Boston Rob the professional poker player guy thats teaching him.

Yes I was kidding about the coach although it sure doesn't seem like BR listens to him much *or the part I saw anyway* but I do love a good train wreck reality tv show!

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

If by "professional" you mean that I relied on poker for my sole income, then yes -I was a professional poker player. This was 18-20 years ago. What I did was not all that glamorous. I mostly hung out with old men in smoky backrooms of the local DAV, VFW, and Moose Lodge. For a kid in his young 20's, I considered myself fabulously rich -although I probably never got more than 75K ahead at any one time. The local clubs were the easy money, but the "big" money was at gambling houses -underground mini casinos set up around the area. The problem there was you sometimes didn't get an honest game; there was always some nutjob doing drug deals on site; and there was that lingering worry that even though the cops had been bought, you still might get busted in a raid.

I did try my luck at Vegas and the poker rooms in LA a few times. I never did the WSOP. My experiences out west were not lucrative, although I never went broke out there or anything close. A big 360 happened in my life, concurrent with my increasing view that this was a scuzzy way to make a living -working vampire hours and taking pension checks from old men. I admit that I have wondered what it would have been like if I had gotten into poker today, now that it's more mainstream.

All in all, I am glad I lived that part of my life. Not to brag, but I picked up skills there that serve me well today. I can tell a person's thougts and intentions pretty well, and I can read a room with the best of them.

 

[ButchJohnson]

If by "professional" you mean that I relied on poker for my sole income, then yes -I was a professional poker player. This was 18-20 years ago. What I did was not all that glamorous. I mostly hung out with old men in smoky backrooms of the local DAV, VFW, and Moose Lodge. For a kid in his young 20's, I considered myself fabulously rich -although I probably never got more than 75K ahead at any one time. The local clubs were the easy money, but the "big" money was at gambling houses -underground mini casinos set up around the area. The problem there was you sometimes didn't get an honest game; there was always some nutjob doing drug deals on site; and there was that lingering worry that even though the cops had been bought, you still might get busted in a raid.

I did try my luck at Vegas and the poker rooms in LA a few times. I never did the WSOP. My experiences out west were not lucrative, although I never went broke out there or anything close. A big 360 happened in my life, concurrent with my increasing view that this was a scuzzy way to make a living -working vampire hours and taking pension checks from old men. I admit that I have wondered what it would have been like if I had gotten into poker today, now that it's more mainstream.

All in all, I am glad I lived that part of my life. Not to brag, but I picked up skills there that serve me well today. I can tell a person's thougts and intentions pretty well, and I can read a room with the best of them.

That's really interesting Zip, I would truely be interested in hearing more, and more about your skills and best opinions on how to read a room.

That one guy we were talking about had a tip that if a player immediately looks at his chips after a hand or additional cards are dealt, that that is a sign that they were just dealt a good hand and are going to bet.

What games did you prefer? The texas high hold 'em, with 2 down for everyone, 5 community cards, flop, river etc., seems to be the main game. I used to play nothing but 5 card draw, but I personally think high hold em is easier to judge what other players have. What do you think?

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

That's really interesting Zip, I would truely be interested in hearing more, and more about your skills and best opinions on how to read a room.

That one guy we were talking about had a tip that if a player immediately looks at his chips after a hand or additional cards are dealt, that that is a sign that they were just dealt a good hand and are going to bet.

What games did you prefer? The texas high hold 'em, with 2 down for everyone, 5 community cards, flop, river etc., seems to be the main game. I used to play nothing but 5 card draw, but I personally think high hold em is easier to judge what other players have. What do you think?

I haven't played a hand in over 15 years, so my opinion of specific games may be irrelevant. Having said that, I always generally preferred the games that had the most rules. You know, some guys just love to have wild cards, hi-low splits, etc. I always felt my edge there was I could think thru the math on stuff like that a little quicker than the average bear, especially if everyone else was drinking and telling jokes (which I always strongly encouraged). So although I found basic games (5 card draw; hold em) personally more enjoyable, I found the games with more bells and whistles more profitable. Contrary to this, I always liked strictly hold-em at the poker houses, because the simpler the game the less chance there was for somebody to cheat me.

I don't know how to explain reading a room, or picking up on tells. It's just a gut instinct thing for me I guess. One thing I do recall that is poker specific... for MOST PEOPLE (got to know your opponent), when they're bluffing they hold their cards/chips tighter. This means the color of their hand will actually change. In reading a room, it is usually easy to tell whether you have everyone's attention or not, and whether they are absorbing what you are saying or letting it go in one ear and out the other. Averted eyes, sighs, etc (all the usual body language) tell you you'd better change course if you want to be effective in what you're doing in that moment.

 

[ducklite]

The brother of a guy I've known since high school has made a living playing poker for 30 years now.

He's not rich, but his average suburban home is paid for, he put a couple kids through college, and he's got a nice retirement nest egg.

He plays fairly conservatively at $20-50 tables, never high stakes, and if he's having a bad day he walks away and tries again the next day.

He doesn't "need" to gamble. To him it's a job. In all honesty I think he's going to retire in a few more years and never play again.

Anne

 

[ButchJohnson]

I haven't played a hand in over 15 years, so my opinion of specific games may be irrelevant. Having said that, I always generally preferred the games that had the most rules. You know, some guys just love to have wild cards, hi-low splits, etc. I always felt my edge there was I could think thru the math on stuff like that a little quicker than the average bear, especially if everyone else was drinking and telling jokes (which I always strongly encouraged). So although I found basic games (5 card draw; hold em) personally more enjoyable, I found the games with more bells and whistles more profitable. Contrary to this, I always liked strictly hold-em at the poker houses, because the simpler the game the less chance there was for somebody to cheat me.

I don't know how to explain reading a room, or picking up on tells. It's just a gut instinct thing for me I guess. One thing I do recall that is poker specific... for MOST PEOPLE (got to know your opponent), when they're bluffing they hold their cards/chips tighter. This means the color of their hand will actually change. In reading a room, it is usually easy to tell whether you have everyone's attention or not, and whether they are absorbing what you are saying or letting it go in one ear and out the other. Averted eyes, sighs, etc (all the usual body language) tell you you'd better change course if you want to be effective in what you're doing in that moment.

Thanks, I would imagine you would also agree with me that if you want to make money DONT play against other professionals, and mainly play with people like you're talking about. I've noticed the pros on the TV shows do so much acting. A player will sigh, hem and haw for his entire time before placing a bet when he actually had a great hand in order to make it look like he was bluffing and had a bad hand. I would hate to get to the point of playing against such good players you have to judge whether or not they are acting or not.

When I play I try and pretend I'm Mr. Spock, absolutely no emotion at any time. Sometimes I wonder if I should do some acting as well,, (act upset, scared what not, when I actually have a great hand.)

 

[pfishgirl]

We have a friend that goes to Atlantic City, NJ every Wednesday and plays in tournaments. We have watched him play a few times and were Amazed at the money people bet and win.. He actually even quit his Job because he makes more money playing Poker a few hours a week then he did busting his butt 40 + hours a day at his job..

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Thanks, I would imagine you would also agree with me that if you want to make money DONT play against other professionals, and mainly play with people like you're talking about. I've noticed the pros on the TV shows do so much acting. A player will sigh, hem and haw for his entire time before placing a bet when he actually had a great hand in order to make it look like he was bluffing and had a bad hand. I would hate to get to the point of playing against such good players you have to judge whether or not they are acting or not.

When I play I try and pretend I'm Mr. Spock, absolutely no emotion at any time. Sometimes I wonder if I should do some acting as well,, (act upset, scared what not, when I actually have a great hand.)

By all means avoid playing with other professionals! I mean, what's the point? Fame and glory don't pay much. My ego never drove me to need to go out west and slay the dragons that were Texas Dolly and Amarillo Slim. There were often times when I'd find myself at a table with someone who was basically doing the same thing I was doing. My strategy then was usually just to play easy for that night and let the other guy take the haul; there was always tomorrow. Being younger than everyone else, I was good at playing the role of star-struck apprentice/fan. My goal playng poker was to make money, so I wanted to sit at a table full of monkeys, not pros. BTW, that reminds me of a saying I used to live by... if you look around the table and can't figure out who the monkey is, then its you.

 

[Jimbo]

I've been very successful playing poker online. I'm retiring real soon, and had thought about treating poker as a part time job when I retire, becoming sort of a semi-pro.

Here's some observations:

• They mostly show tournaments on TV, with players winning $1M and up. But say that there's 700 people entered; most of the money goes to the top 5-to-10, with maybe 60 more making a small profit, and the rest losing their buyin. So the variance is really high. Most pros make their living in cash games, not tourneys.
• Cash games can be really boring. In hold 'em, a good player throws away upwards of 80% of his hands. The typical successful pro is just looking to make money at a reasonable hourly rate, and then just grinds it out hour after hour. Not too glamourous.
• In general, I think players in live games are much worse than online players. That seems odd to me, but I think it's because live players play too many hands due to boredom. Online players can join multiple games, watch TV, surf for porn, etc., and boredom isn't a big factor.
• In the U. S., online poker is just about done for. Most of the sites bar Americans, and those that still allow us are having problems transferring money.

 

[ButchJohnson]

I've been very successful playing poker online. I'm retiring real soon, and had thought about treating poker as a part time job when I retire, becoming sort of a semi-pro.

Here's some observations:

• They mostly show tournaments on TV, with players winning $1M and up. But say that there's 700 people entered; most of the money goes to the top 5-to-10, with maybe 60 more making a small profit, and the rest losing their buyin. So the variance is really high. Most pros make their living in cash games, not tourneys.
• Cash games can be really boring. In hold 'em, a good player throws away upwards of 80% of his hands. The typical successful pro is just looking to make money at a reasonable hourly rate, and then just grinds it out hour after hour. Not too glamourous.
• In general, I think players in live games are much worse than online players. That seems odd to me, but I think it's because live players play too many hands due to boredom. Online players can join multiple games, watch TV, surf for porn, etc., and boredom isn't a big factor.
• In the U. S., online poker is just about done for. Most of the sites bar Americans, and those that still allow us are having problems transferring money.

I agree, although I've never played online, but your assessment makes sense. I do think that a lot of players screw up because they are bored and play less than desirable hands, that's why I always set rules for my self as to what types of hands I will play, which varies slightly if I'm down wind on the deal and see that most players have folded or seem to have a average hand.

Do you have rules as to what you will and will not play, typically I'm a either a King high or better (sometimes won't play a king if it looks like others may have a better hand) or pairs only typically 6s and 7s and up. (Talking high hold 'em.) (But again I won't play a low pair unless it looks like the others don't have better.)

Do you think this is a little too liberal? I know some pros won't play anything with pairs unless they are 9s and above.