Points brokers and availabilty

[jngwright]

I'm not trying to stir the pot but am curious to know what you guys think. Availability seems increasingly scant and I feel like every time I turn around/click a page/group/station I hear ads for points brokers. "You don't have to own DVC to stay at a Disney Vacation Club resort.." Etc.
It seems way more prevalent in recent years, as is difficulty in finding a variety of rooms after the 11 month mark.
Points brokers make it easier for owners to rent their points.. But are they making it harder for owners to use their points?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Renting your points IS using your points.

 

[jngwright]

Renting your points IS using your points.

I'll clarify, then, and say "using your points to book rooms for yourself".

 

[crisi]

I think they are making it harder for owners to switch resorts at seven months.

Owners still need to plan to use their points - either use them themselves or use them for renters or guests. As they make that decision, if they move on it at eleven months, and then rent the points out and book it, yes, that will tighten over a bunch of owners who don't make reservations until after seven months because "we want to try something new and something is always available).

But I think the bigger deal is simply people have gotten used to planning and owners who bought expensive points (VGF/Poly/BLT - even BCV or BWV resale) are probably not excited about ending up at SSR - so they use them.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Whether I book for myself between 11-7 months, or book for a friend, relative, hated enemy or renter, that room is booked regardless.

 

[disneynutz]

Brokers have made it easier and more comfortable for owners to rent reservations. In the past they may have let their points get forfeited which would have created additional availability. Another issue may be that owning the less expensive SSR and booking other resorts at 7 months may also have an impact.

Next will be PVB owners who want a larger room booking to stay at a different resort or Aulani owners who want to go to WDW.

Bill

 

[hakepb]

It's also Disney and DVC to blame. Disney room rates are so outrageously high that guests search out discounts, including points rental. The ad's exist because point brokers have more guests wanting to rent points than owners willing to rent.

And DVC contracts are now so expensive that newer owners are more willing to rent points (to recover their purchase) if they cannot go themselves.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have thought that online booking has played a part. In the past I remember posts indicating how xxx couldn't be available etc etc. I did not assume that and you'd be surprised at what we got that was being touted as impossible. But now everyone can see what actual availability is. I think it both prompts people to book when they see things are booking up and also to plan trips they otherwise might not have when they see the openings. Also, as the last 4 months have increased in popularity people are learning they can't wait and are booking earlier.

 

[cvjw]

I just rented out close to 1000 points thru a broker. Instead of my family visiting disney for 4 weeks next year, we are visiting just once. Renters are using the other 3 weeks. It is a wash in the end. Either my family uses the points or a renter does. Same amount of availability used up.

I also agree with PP about the resort availability tool. Now that all members can see what is actually open (without having to call member services), it probably prompts people to take more trips and actually use their points.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think with more points in the system, people are learning they have to plan, as well.

 

[DenLo]

I think there are just a lot of points in the DVC system and the majority of members all try to book the same time periods or around holidays. It doesn't help that some members intentionally buy the cheapest points they can get and then have no intention of staying at their home resort. Vero Beach, HHI and SSR are good examples of the that and a number of OKW points were purchased for that purpose, but unlike the VB and HHI owners they are usually okay with stay at OKW if they can't get anything else . When you think about it who would want to stay at VB or HHI in the winter, not that many members really. But DVC still sold points for those weeks as well. It would be interesting to know how many of those points are never used at their home resorts.

 

[LadyLvsTramp]

I do not appreciate Disney allowing this broker renting! I thought the intention of the DVC was to create family memories they still use that concept. If we as owners choose to rent or use our points we have paid for that right let the brokers purchase points to rent. I complain each time I talk to member services but since it fills the parks I do not expect this to change.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Brokers don't rent the points. They're a dating service.
Even via a broker it is still the points owner making the reservation for the end user.

It would be impossible for Disney to shut down brokers simply because at the end of the day, Disney can't tell if the reservation was arranged privately or via a broker. It's still the DVC owner making the reservation for the end user, and Disney have no visibility to other pieces of the transaction.

 

[drusba]

I am guessing having the brokers may add somewhat (along with many other things) to demand for highly demanded times, e.g., the owner who goes through a broker to rent may not otherwise use the points, or would use them at a time other than Oct to Dec or race weekends that would likely attact more renters. However, I look at the legtimate brokers as a service that is very good to have as an owner because many owners may otherwise relinguish points that they cannot use since they do not want to try doing a rental by themselves, and any owner always has some risk of something happening that would prevent being able to use some points in a given year or two. (I have never personally rented points.) Moreover, having brokers gives one a market to look at to see how much their points are actually worth in the rental market and a market to send friends and other acquaintances to who may want to rent (which I have done five times, and, interestingly, none of those five wanted either high demand times or high demand rooms).

Renting is expressly allowed in the official documents and there is serious question Disney could legally prohibit it even if that language was not in the official documents. Not allowed is for the member to engage in renting for "commercial purposes," a vague term that Disney defined somewhat by guidelines which state that a member will be presumed to be acting for commercial purposes if he makes 20 or more reservations in any given year (a rolling year so any 12 month period). The members who are using brokers are typically not each doing a lot of reservations per year, and the broker is acting not as an owner subject to the commercial purposes rule but as an outside agency and middleman providing a service to owners. Thus, Disney lacks a legal basis to be able to prohibit brokers from operating.

 

[mort1331]

I think there are just a lot of points in the DVC system and the majority of members all try to book the same time periods or around holidays. It doesn't help that some members intentionally buy the cheapest points they can get and then have no intention of staying at their home resort. Vero Beach, HHI and SSR are good examples of the that and a number of OKW points were purchased for that purpose, but unlike the VB and HHI owners they are usually okay with stay at OKW if they can't get anything else . When you think about it who would want to stay at VB or HHI in the winter, not that many members really. But DVC still sold points for those weeks as well. It would be interesting to know how many of those points are never used at their home resorts.

As a SSR owner, 2 contracts, I take a little offence to this. Yes we have tried some other resorts. But I am going back to my home this Sept for a lovely week. And this is also because my dd5 loves the place and doesnt want to stay anywhere else.
So I toured around for a few years, choose SSR, didn't settle. Bought where we like to stay. So please do not paint us all with the same brush.
If anything, I am upset about all the new Poly people coming over for my cheaper rooms, longer stays. And now with our reallocation of points, hmm.

 

[supersnoop]

let the brokers purchase points to rent.

That is actually expressly prohibited. They do not allow a member to operate as a commerial enterprise. How would you propose they prevent brokers from operating while still allowing members to book rooms for their family and friends?

 

[LAX]

I don't understand the hate on rental agencies. I think it serves as a nice back up option should something unexpected come up and one cannot travel to Disney for a year or two. I would find it difficult to believe many people would be able to go to Disney every year or every other year through the duration of their contracts. Like someone has already mentioned, renting the points is a form of using the points. It's no different from gifting them or renting them at cost to friends or family. Either way the points get used and availability will decrease as well.

LAX

 

[crisi]

I think just that its made it both easier to rent for owners and more popular for non-owners to rent. Add in that the in demand resorts get a premium from the brokers, and its an additional push towards needing to reserve early, and fewer rooms available at seven months for the high demand/low supply rooms.

Though I don't think the issue is as big as the perception - and I think that in another year or two it will lessen. It feels as though there is a perpetual shortage of points on the rental market - most of us did buy to use our points more often than not, and people who want to rent are disappointed too often in availability. That will discourage them from renting or recommending rentals to their friends.

For those that were hoping to try BCV at seven months, the thought that renters are getting in at eleven can be a little maddening. Yes, they are the owners points, but for someone who bought on the "sleep around" plan, when there isn't a lot of availability at seven months, that diminishes the value for them.

I like having the option to rent my points without a lot of bother, and since we almost always plan in advance and stay in our home resort, availability hasn't been too problematic. But I can get where people find it frustrating and want a scapegoat.

 

[disneynutz]

I do not appreciate Disney allowing this broker renting! I thought the intention of the DVC was to create family memories they still use that concept. If we as owners choose to rent or use our points we have paid for that right let the brokers purchase points to rent. I complain each time I talk to member services but since it fills the parks I do not expect this to change.

The true reality is that DVC's intention is to make Disney money by selling timeshare ownership and other events using DVC as a marketing tool.

It's the people that make the memories, not DVC.

Bill

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Well, and to be fair, a lot of would-be-renters have completely insane ideas on the timelines. Some learn when they ask; some decide it's a scam and never return.

The people who want a Value Studio at AKV on 5 months notice. People asking now for VGF rentals for marathon. Etc. They're teeming on Rent/Trade. A few of the owners there are very kind not to be saying "ha, no."