Point chart history and future

LuigiSpice

Mouseketeer
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
136
I had never heard of DVC until maybe Feb of this year, so I missed all the brouhaha about the original 2020 point charts. After spending some time trying to find old threads I gave up and decided to just ask:

What happened and why did everyone freak out? It must have been a big freak out since they actually changed it correct? And on that note, does anyone predict a similar attempt going forward, or did they learn their lesson?

Thanks.
 
I think the big piece of it,,,and others can add way more or correct any misunderstandings that I have..is that the raised the points for studios and One bedrooms and there wasnt an equivalent reduction in 2 bedrooms.

Total Points for a resort can not change but can be adjusted from rooms. For example, they can raise a studio in Adventure season but must lower it elsewhere.

The 2020 issue was that they add points because of the lock off premium. It costs more points to book a studio and a 1 bedroom by themselves over a 2 bedroom.

So, from what I understood, this actually violated what they were allowed to due and they reversed it,

However, I would not be surprised to see 2021 point charts adjusted again in some way. I would venture they spent the past year figuring out how to do it and still be within the rules..that is just my opinion though.
 
...that they raised the points for studios and One bedrooms and there wasnt an equivalent reduction in 2 bedrooms.

Oh, so it was just that people were upset by how they distributed the points, but that they actually violated the rules on reallocation? That seems mad shady if they did that.
 
Oh, so it was just that people were upset by how they distributed the points, but that they actually violated the rules on reallocation? That seems mad shady if they did that.

Yes, people felt they did violate but I don’t think DVC saw it that way. They simply said they reverted based on member feedback.
 

Oh, so it was just that people were upset by how they distributed the points, but that they actually violated the rules on reallocation? That seems mad shady if they did that.

There were accusations of wrong doing, but I never saw any actual proof and DVC never admitted any wrong doing. Most of the brouhaha that had people losing their minds (IMHO) was the increase in points for studios and those with small contracts having to buy more points or shorten their vacations. I suspect it may happen again this year with all of the complaints of studio availability, and I suspect DVC will have all their ducks in a row this year.
 
Some threads to go through include:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/2020-point-charts.3725229/
would-you-join-a-lawsuit-against-dvc-to-stop-revert-the-2020-reallocation.3726101

https://www.disboards.com/threads/2020-points-chart-has-been-revised-to-be-closer-to-2019.3731528/
As to whether there was proof of wrongdoing, you can make your own conclusions after reading the threads. All I need to say is that when DVC was challenged, a main defense it asserted was that it is not bound by prior representations made to purchasers and members.
 
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Some additional info:

Technically, the "total" number of points available at a resort is calculated by adding up all of the points it takes to book the maximum number of 2 bedrooms available for every night of the year and then adding to that number all of the points necessary to book all of the DEDICATED studios and DEDICATED 1 bedrooms for every night of the year. A base year that contains the maximum number of Friday & Saturday nights is used for the calculation.

Typically, it costs more points to book a studio and a 1 bedroom separately than it does to just book a 2 bedroom. The difference is known as the lock off premium.

With the initial release of the 2020 charts, DVCMC raised the number of points it cost to book studios AND the number of points it cost to book 1 bedrooms, but lowered the number of points it cost to book two bedrooms. That technically kept the total for each resort the same, but increased the lock off premium. Since most lock off 2 bedrooms are rented as studios and 1 bedrooms, the increase sucked up a lot of points & increased availability such that there wouldn't be enough points to book up all the available villas every year. That means breakage income would see a significant increase and since the resort budgets are already getting the max allowed portion of that, all of the increase would go to Disney.

Most of us thought that change was NOT acceptable, especially since 1 bedrooms book up later than the other villa types (except bungalows & perhaps cabins).

Anyway, the change generated a lot of the push back and caused some to dive into the POS/MSPOS documents to conclude this type of reallocation was not permitted.
 
Despite what they say, I think DVC reverted the points charts back on legal advice- things were really hotting up with one member even retaining a timeshare lawyer to get ready for a class action. From a legal standpoint, the videos on YouTube selling DVC cause them particular difficulty - unequivocal claims that points could never go up overall. Many members who bought around that time could have said to have had that misrepresented.
The claim that 1 beds go quickly just doesn’t seem to add up, all I do is look at 1 beds and they are always generally last to go. Makes no sense at all, as most members will tell you.
If I’m correct, they won’t try lockoff premium increases again. If I’m wrong they’ll maybe try it again, but maybe not. They’d know a lawsuit is a possibility anyway, and would then have to give full disclosure including internal communications and emails, justify their maths in detail and have the same issues looked at by a Claimant expert. Personally I suspect DVD would be very, very nervous about that and maybe have just binned the idea.
Only time will tell.
What DVC should be justifiably doing is now increasing points in fall frenzy and lowering in summer by the same amount. They should maybe also increasing studio points a bit and lowering 1 beds a bit, again by exactly the same amount. Whilst studio fall frenzy bookers could grumble, no one could say that is wrong in terms of DVCs duty to balance the points charts.
 
What DVC should be justifiably doing is now increasing points in fall frenzy and lowering in summer by the same amount. They should maybe also increasing studio points a bit and lowering 1 beds a bit, again by exactly the same amount. Whilst studio fall frenzy bookers could grumble, no one could say that is wrong in terms of DVCs duty to balance the points charts.
Exactly.
 
Despite what they say, I think DVC reverted the points charts back on legal advice- things were really hotting up with one member even retaining a timeshare lawyer to get ready for a class action. From a legal standpoint, the videos on YouTube selling DVC cause them particular difficulty - unequivocal claims that points could never go up overall. Many members who bought around that time could have said to have had that misrepresented.
The claim that 1 beds go quickly just doesn’t seem to add up, all I do is look at 1 beds and they are always generally last to go. Makes no sense at all, as most members will tell you.
If I’m correct, they won’t try lockoff premium increases again. If I’m wrong they’ll maybe try it again, but maybe not. They’d know a lawsuit is a possibility anyway, and would then have to give full disclosure including internal communications and emails, justify their maths in detail and have the same issues looked at by a Claimant expert. Personally I suspect DVD would be very, very nervous about that and maybe have just binned the idea.
Only time will tell.
What DVC should be justifiably doing is now increasing points in fall frenzy and lowering in summer by the same amount. They should maybe also increasing studio points a bit and lowering 1 beds a bit, again by exactly the same amount. Whilst studio fall frenzy bookers could grumble, no one could say that is wrong in terms of DVCs duty to balance the points charts.

Those would all be reasonable changes to make, but will they? The fall frenzy and 1 bedroom supply have both been there forever and DVC has shown no interest in changing it. That change makes them no extra money, so why bother seems to be their attitude.
 
Those would all be reasonable changes to make, but will they? The fall frenzy and 1 bedroom supply have both been there forever and DVC has shown no interest in changing it. That change makes them no extra money, so why bother seems to be their attitude.
That is true. The only thing they are concerned with is that dollar.
 
Those would all be reasonable changes to make, but will they? The fall frenzy and 1 bedroom supply have both been there forever and DVC has shown no interest in changing it. That change makes them no extra money, so why bother seems to be their attitude.

I agree with the "why bother" attitude. Since in any reallocation someone will be disappointed and may voice their concerns, from their point of view it's better to avoid the bad publicity.
But they did reallocate the week days and weekends, I wasn't a member at the time, but I've read the imbalance was so great that weekends were left unbooked too often. Maybe it was too big of a problem to ignore.
 
I agree they probably won’t, as it’s easier to just stick with the status quo.
 
Those would all be reasonable changes to make, but will they? The fall frenzy and 1 bedroom supply have both been there forever and DVC has shown no interest in changing it. That change makes them no extra money, so why bother seems to be their attitude.

They should do it for the fact that balancing supply and demand is supposed to be one of their responsibilities. It should have nothing to do with whether or not they are making money.

If certain times of the year are difficult or almost impossible to book at 11 months, not just specific room types, but many booking options in studios, then they should be adjusting.

Early December is brutal for most resorts, and an adjustment is warranted, IMOl

Will they? Who knows. However, based on what they should do to meet what I believe are their obligations, things should be doing some adjusting within seasons,

I guess in the next month, we will see if they have decided whether anything is warranted.
 
What DVC should be justifiably doing is now increasing points in fall frenzy and lowering in summer by the same amount. They should maybe also increasing studio points a bit and lowering 1 beds a bit, again by exactly the same amount. Whilst studio fall frenzy bookers could grumble, no one could say that is wrong in terms of DVCs duty to balance the points charts.

Would they be able to do the same amount thing if the rooms are lopsided? Or did you mean the total?

I'm just thinking if there are say (20) overall studios available, and (10) 1 BR available and they increased studios by 1 point and 1 BR decreased by 1 point; they'd still be raising the overall disney intake by 10 points right? Or is every resort always 1 studio per 1 bedroom?
 
Would they be able to do the same amount thing if the rooms are lopsided? Or did you mean the total?

I'm just thinking if there are say (20) overall studios available, and (10) 1 BR available and they increased studios by 1 point and 1 BR decreased by 1 point; they'd still be raising the overall disney intake by 10 points right? Or is every resort always 1 studio per 1 bedroom?

The points would have to be done in such a way to keep the resort balanced so yes, if there is more of one type vs. another, it might not be one to one,

But there are some discussions now that crossing rooms may or may not be possible, I thought it was but others who are much more knowledgeable have said language in specific POSs could supersede the multi resort POS which is where they changed language to say it can be across rooms, not just seasonal.

However, total points for a resort can never go up..which is why the lock off premium that they tried last year didn’t make sense as it did raise total points, based on the analysis of some very smart members!.
 
The points would have to be done in such a way to keep the resort balanced so yes, if there is more of one type vs. another, it might not be one to one,

But there are some discussions now that crossing rooms may or may not be possible, I thought it was but others who are much more knowledgeable have said language in specific POSs could supersede the multi resort POS which is where they changed language to say it can be across rooms, not just seasonal.

However, total points for a resort can never go up..which is why the lock off premium that they tried last year didn’t make sense as it did raise total points, based on the analysis of some very smart members!.

What do you mean by "crossing rooms"?
 
The points would have to be done in such a way to keep the resort balanced so yes, if there is more of one type vs. another, it might not be one to one,

But there are some discussions now that crossing rooms may or may not be possible, I thought it was but others who are much more knowledgeable have said language in specific POSs could supersede the multi resort POS which is where they changed language to say it can be across rooms, not just seasonal.

However, total points for a resort can never go up..which is why the lock off premium that they tried last year didn’t make sense as it did raise total points, based on the analysis of some very smart members!.
Ya, makes me think they thought that there wouldn't be any owners that was smart enough to know what they were trying to pull. I sure didn't, but I am glad there are some that are.
 

















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