Please tell me why Dessert but no appetizer with Dining plan?

[havoc315]

The $5 was the low end for a TS dessert... the others are what you would buy at any resort gift shop or food court... and yes, they are snack credits.

I would agree, that high sugar, calorie laden treats are all around... you only need to look at the DIS to see what people long for the most... i thought the thread about the cupcakes was a real killer! But if you can eat it, then everything in moderation... and it is vacation

Agreed. And I'll eat a few items like that myself on a vacation. I'm not judging anybody. My point was that the meal plan is really geared towards generous use of a sweet tooth.
For the responsible eater (not necessarily me!), it is difficult to get value out of the meal plan.

On average, Americans probably are not "responsible eaters" nowadays.

And with 1 hand, Disney has tried to steer their dining in the right direction -- as with the whole grain buns discussed, use of more lean meats, etc.
But on the other hand, Disney steers in the wrong direction-- by pushing meal plans that actively encourage over-indulgence.

Too many Americans are enamored by "all you can eat," and massive desserts, and large cuts of red meat on a daily basis. And I've been guilty of this myself, more often than not. It would be nice if a supposedly wholesome family entity like Disney, didn't actually encourage this level of irresponsibility.

 

[havoc315]

This thread started largely with people wishing they could get an appetizer instead of dessert. The counterargument was that appetizers extend the meal, and are more expensive than desserts.

But how about allowing a side dish to be substituted for the dessert???

A side order of vegetables (not included in the meal plan) would be the same price as a dessert, and would not lengthen the meal!

 

[tony67]

Of course you are right about not having to purchase the meal plan. But what I'm saying is, that it would be nice if they offered a meal plan that didn't require you to over-eat to get value.

Your example is a fairly normal amount of food, and it is true that the mealplan would be worthwhile for that person, on the day.
But the veal t-bone the most expensive items on the menu at Les Cellier, at $37
Let's say another member of your party got the pork chop ($24), the third member of your party got the salmon (24), and the fourth member of your family got the chicken ($22) --
So if the day was the same otherwise, the value for the other members of the party would be $46, $46, and $44.

And of course, Les Cellier is probably the most expensive 1-credit restaurant at Disney, soon to be changed to 2 credits.
If you were using 2 dining credits to satisfy that day, would you really be getting value at $59?

If you're not ordering the big steaks, etc, at the restaurants, and you choose to pass on items like desserts, it is very difficult to get good value from the dining plan.

And yes, you can choose not to buy it. But it would be nice if they actually sold a meal plan that was "healthy."

I picked a very expensive meal because you picked a very inexpensive meal.

I for one am not going to dinner at Columbia Harbour House when I am on vacation even though I like the hummus sandwhich.

 

[princesspeach]

Agreed. And I'll eat a few items like that myself on a vacation. I'm not judging anybody. My point was that the meal plan is really geared towards generous use of a sweet tooth.
For the responsible eater (not necessarily me!), it is difficult to get value out of the meal plan.

On average, Americans probably are not "responsible eaters" nowadays.

And with 1 hand, Disney has tried to steer their dining in the right direction -- as with the whole grain buns discussed, use of more lean meats, etc.
But on the other hand, Disney steers in the wrong direction-- by pushing meal plans that actively encourage over-indulgence.

Too many Americans are enamored by "all you can eat," and massive desserts, and large cuts of red meat on a daily basis. And I've been guilty of this myself, more often than not. It would be nice if a supposedly wholesome family entity like Disney, didn't actually encourage this level of irresponsibility.

I have a hard time understanding why disney is responsible for your food choices.What ever happened to personel resposibility.

 

[havoc315]

I have a hard time understanding why disney is responsible for your food choices.What ever happened to personel resposibility.

Disney is not responsible for your choices. Disney is responsible for the choices that they are offering.
They do not offer a meal plan choice for semi-reasonable eating. (I'm not even talking about health freak stuff -- just completely normal, 2000 calorie per day eating).
If you want to eat a normal diet, without wasting money, it is very difficult to do, on the meal plan.

So Disney is not responsible for your food choices.
But Disney IS responsible for failing to provide healthy meal plan choices. (Yes, it is possible to eat healthy on the meal plan, but then the meal plan becomes a $$$ loss)

 

[havoc315]

I picked a very expensive meal because you picked a very inexpensive meal.

I for one am not going to dinner at Columbia Harbour House when I am on vacation even though I like the hummus sandwhich.

So switch it and have the Hummus sandwich for lunch, and Tony's for dinner --- the end bill would be the same. I picked a fairly typical reasonable eating combination. Eating a steak every day during a 5-7 day vacation really is not reasonable eating. (Even though plenty of people do it).

Of course, I completely forgot to note that as of March 2011 -- The meal that you just listed as being a reasonable amount of food, would still cost $59 out of pocket, but on the meal plan, the exact same amount of food would cost $79! (You would need 3 meal credits in order to pay for your example, meaning you would need to be on the deluxe plan).

So as of March 2011, your reasonable meal, would result in a net loss of $20, if you used the meal plan.

Even if you tossed in a pretty expensive appetizer, it would still be a losing day. Plus of course, once you throw in the appetizer, you start entering the realm of way too many calories.

 

[Sammie]

if the meal plan is not a good fit either by the food included or cost, simply do not get it. Pay out of pocket.

 

[havoc315]

if the meal plan is not a good fit either by the food included or cost, simply do not get it. Pay out of pocket.

Agreed. But there is nothing wrong with urging Disney to offer more responsible plans.

If Disney had a "red light district" in 1 of their parks, with pornographic ads, etc, etc --- You'd have the option of simply avoiding that part of the park. But I suspect there would also be tons of complaints from families, that the red light district was totally inappropriate and should be removed.

 

[canoe86]

Disney is not responsible for your choices. Disney is responsible for the choices that they are offering.
They do not offer a meal plan choice for semi-reasonable eating. (I'm not even talking about health freak stuff -- just completely normal, 2000 calorie per day eating).
If you want to eat a normal diet, without wasting money, it is very difficult to do, on the meal plan.

So Disney is not responsible for your food choices.
But Disney IS responsible for failing to provide healthy meal plan choices. (Yes, it is possible to eat healthy on the meal plan, but then the meal plan becomes a $$$ loss)

So, Disney is forcing people to overeat because the consumer of the DDP is trying to squeeze every dollar out of the plan in order to get value?

And this is Disney's fault?

 

[canoe86]

Agreed. But there is nothing wrong with urging Disney to offer more responsible plans.

If Disney had a "red light district" in 1 of their parks, with pornographic ads, etc, etc --- You'd have the option of simply avoiding that part of the park. But I suspect there would also be tons of complaints from families, that the red light district was totally inappropriate and should be removed.

So disney should be responsible because regular people cant? Just trying to get some clarification here.

Oh, and I LOVE the fact they put back in the tip. I felt the service was poor to horrible at many places once they found out you were on the DDP. Now, a tip is EARNED.

 

[havoc315]

So, Disney is forcing people to overeat because the consumer of the DDP is trying to squeeze every dollar out of the plan in order to get value?

And this is Disney's fault?

It's not "squeezing" every dollar --- if you eat a regular healthy amount of food, then the dining plan is significantly more expensive than out of pocket.

Disney is at fault for the choices -- and lack of choices - that they offer.

Ultimately, healthy or unhealthy eating is the choice of the consumer.

But it is disconcerting that Disney is encouraging extremely unhealthy and dangerous habits.

Would you fault Disney if they offered every guest a free cigarette after riding Splash Mountain? Or would you simply say, "well, you don't have to accept it"

 

[havoc315]

So disney should be responsible because regular people cant? Just trying to get some clarification here.
.

I am saying that Disney should offer a meal plan that works for responsible people.

I am saying Disney should not be a "sin city," encouraging people to be unhealthy gluttons.
.

 

[honeymo78]

Disney doesn't have to offer a discount dining plan at all. This is not a right. It is not meant to work for every family or every appetite. Disney does not need to, nor should they make any more variations of the DDP to fit the nuances of every personal preference. Not everyone even purchases DDP to actually save much, if any money. It is also geared to convenience rather than savings.

If it were impossible to purchase healthy food using the DDP then perhaps Disney would not be acting responsibly, or if you had to purchase a meal plan to stay on site. However you don't have to. Don't drink the DDP kool-aid and believe that you can't save money and have a meaningful trip without it. It works for some people and doesn't work for others. Disney has zero obligation to make it work for everyone, even in the name of health.

Honestly I think Disney has come a long way in offering healthier options in general, including The Wave and fruit and veggies readily available in the parks at snack carts.

 

[honeymo78]

But it is disconcerting that Disney is encouraging extremely unhealthy and dangerous habits.

Would you fault Disney if they offered every guest a free cigarette after riding Splash Mountain? Or would you simply say, "well, you don't have to accept it"

Then Disney must be encouraging alcoholism with my TIW card which gives me 20% off all my alcohol. If I don't order the alcohol I won't save as much on my $2 iced tea and I would off my $7 cider and I won't break even as fast if I don't use my discount on booze. People who don't drink and order cheaper, healthier meals should be able to break even on TIW just as fast as people who order steak and booze. Let's lobby for a healthy TIW so Disney isn't encouraging bad eating and drinking habits among AP holders and FL residents.

 

[canoe86]

It's not "squeezing" every dollar --- if you eat a regular healthy amount of food, then the dining plan is significantly more expensive than out of pocket.

Disney is at fault for the choices -- and lack of choices - that they offer.

Ultimately, healthy or unhealthy eating is the choice of the consumer.

But it is disconcerting that Disney is encouraging extremely unhealthy and dangerous habits.

Would you fault Disney if they offered every guest a free cigarette after riding Splash Mountain? Or would you simply say, "well, you don't have to accept it"

Well, a ' responsible' person wouldn't accept the cigarette now would they?

Of course, the smokers would. but how many people would accept it who normally don't smoke, but would just because it s free? I'm sure some would, but most , nope.


I think a better analogy would be would people still buy the dinning plan if Disney gave out a free cigarette after dinner. I would bet, that would KILL the DDP, or people just wouldn't take it. The fact that it is free wouldn't create millions of smokers. You see, if someone wants a cigarette, they are available to purchase in public, just like more food or less food is available at Disney and OFF site.

Have I over eaten at Disney, yep. Have I over eaten at home, yep. Have I skipped dessert at Disney, yep. Have i skipped dessert at home, yes.

Not sure why people can't be responsible for themselves. But I guess if you are weak, and can't say no to anything, maybe you can request at dinner a smaller portion and that no matter how hard you plead, cry, or beg for dessert, to have the server NOT bring it to you. Would that help?

 

[princesspeach]

While lurking on these boards I was always surprised by the gluttoney comments in regards to the ddp and dxdp. We did the dxdp I did not gain weight nor did I have a heart attack when I got home. I made healthy choices when I wanted sometimes I chose not to. There was always plenty of options for whichever way I felt like eating. I'm sure like most people I like to eat, drink(adult beverages) and be merry while on vacation. I think disney realizes this that why there are bars and food stands everywhere. It's a vacation people don't go there to diet. If you really want to diet while your there just eat salad and fish every night its offered at almost every restaraunt. I just don't get the disney is responsible for our eating, and the cigarette analogy is just ridiculous. I can't even comment on that.

 

[gonnago]

I would much rather have the dessert than the appetizer. I don't normally order either one so when I'm on the plan the dessert is like an extra special treat. However, I would give up appetizer AND dessert if they would put the tip back on.

I second this!

 

[havoc315]

Disney doesn't have to offer a discount dining plan at all. This is not a right. It is not meant to work for every family or every appetite. .

All very true. But I can still wish that they would offer a meal plan for responsible eaters.

 

[havoc315]

I think a better analogy would be would people still buy the dinning plan if Disney gave out a free cigarette after dinner. I would bet, that would KILL the DDP, or people just wouldn't take it. The fact that it is free wouldn't create millions of smokers. You see, if someone wants a cigarette, they are available to purchase in public, just like more food or less food is available at Disney and OFF site.

Good analogy. Yes, let's say that a pack of cigarettes was included each day in the meal plan. Of course, the cigarettes are not free--- simply rolled into the cost of the meal plan. (and Disney "free dining" is really just rolled into your costs as well)
So imagine the meal plan includes $45 worth of food, and $8 worth of cigarettes, for the bargain price of $48.
That's basically what Disney is selling with the meal plan.
So am I crazy to suggest that maybe they should roll out a meal plan that doesn't include the cigarettes?

 

[havoc315]

It's a vacation people don't go there to diet. If you really want to diet while your there just eat salad and fish every night its offered at almost every restaraunt. .

I am not talking about dieting, just what should be normal eating. Of course, part of the problem, is that most Americans have a distorted view of what constitutes normal eating.
Fish and a salad is not diet eating -- it is regular eating.
And that type of regular eating is not practical on the meal plan. You would end up paying out of pocket for the salad, skipping the dessert, while getting the cheapest entrees on the menu.

It is very difficult for the meal plan to have any savings value for anything but abnormal eating.