Please learn from my mistakes

[appleorchard]

I'm also an RN and my DH used an ECV this last week at Disney. What we learned was amazing. We learned:
1. That people walk directly in front of your ECV and expect you to stop on a dime
2. That people push into the elevator in front of you as if you weren't even there.
3. That people refuse to let you "merge" into traffic like anyone else,making you wait until there's no one coming in any direction

Maybe the people who do these kinds of things think he doesn't "deserve" to be on an ECV because he's only 60 and not visibly ill to the untrained eye. He can get off his scooter and walk or stand when necessary.In reality, he has life threatening disease that an RN who looked closely would recognize--his color is very poor and his breathing is labored. And he also LOOKS overweight, although, in reality, he is not overweight at all: he has ascites(fluid in his abdomen).
I saw only a few people "abusing" ECVS by riding them too fast or without consideration for other people. I saw far more people behave in the rudest way possible towards anyone using one. And it is true that most rides are W/C accessible and using one rarely, if ever, gets you on a ride in front of anyone. And any time you save getting on a ride "first" is made up by the fact that ECVS are the last out of most rides, simply because no one will stop and let them get in line.
I'm ashamed that an RN would think the way the original posters does. We're taught to be nonjudgmental and that many handicaps aren't visible.
We're very grateful we were able to make this trip; only the ECV made it possible. When he was hospitalizsed last month I never thought we'd be able to keep our appointment with the Mouse. I did many things alone while he rested at the hotel but it was still a great trip. And some people were wonderful, holding elevators and doors without being asked. For many, though, being in a W/C or an ECV means becoming invisible to much of the population.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm also an RN and my DH used an ECV this last week at Disney. What we learned was amazing. We learned:
1. That people walk directly in front of your ECV and expect you to stop on a dime
2. That people push into the elevator in front of you as if you weren't even there.
3. That people refuse to let you "merge" into traffic like anyone else,making you wait until there's no one coming in any direction

Maybe the people who do these kinds of things think he doesn't "deserve" to be on an ECV because he's only 60 and not visibly ill to the untrained eye. He can get off his scooter and walk or stand when necessary.

We have noticed the same things. When our DD was little, people were much nicer. I think you are right about the reason why some people are so 'nasty'. It's because they think anyone who uses a wheelchair or ECV when they can't see a VERY visible reason must not 'deserve' to use one.

 

[cat_herder]

I'm also an RN and my DH used an ECV this last week at Disney. What we learned was amazing. We learned:
1. That people walk directly in front of your ECV and expect you to stop on a dime
2. That people push into the elevator in front of you as if you weren't even there.
3. That people refuse to let you "merge" into traffic like anyone else,making you wait until there's no one coming in any direction

Yes, yes, yes. I've had all these things happen to me and I've only been on my scooter a very short time.

I'm going to be using a scooter in the park for the first time this coming week. I'm able to walk but only for a short distance before the pain in my back and hip starts and just gets worst as I go. I'm fortunate that I will be able to get out of the scooter for short times like going to the bathroom or getting on a ride. I have no trouble with waiting in a line with everyone else to get on the ride as long as I don't have to stand.

I used the scooter for the first time in public at a convention in August and I was amazed at the number of people who cut in front of me at the convention and then complained about my chair. The chair doesn’t stop on a dime, it takes a few second to stop and when people cut in front of my by less the a foot chances are they are going to get hit or come close to it. And people were cutting in front of me every 2-3 minutes, sometimes 6-8 people in a row. Well every time someone does that, I have to stop the chair and that causes the people behind me to have to stop and then they complain about me being so slow. I’m slow because I’m trying hard not to hit you when you come around me and step directly in front of me. Not to mention being hit in the back, head and face with assorted bags, elbows, packages and other things.

If you really feel you must say something about the chair or the slowness of it or whatever, go ahead, I’ve heard it before and I’ve quickly reached the point I don’t care. For once I’m not in pain from my back or hip or practically laying on the road from being out of breath just walking 20 feet. .


Dianne

 

[hematite153]

I'm also an RN and my DH used an ECV this last week at Disney. What we learned was amazing. We learned:
1. That people walk directly in front of your ECV and expect you to stop on a dime
2. That people push into the elevator in front of you as if you weren't even there.
3. That people refuse to let you "merge" into traffic like anyone else,making you wait until there's no one coming in any direction

Yes, I have had all of these experiences while pushing a w/c as well. For some reason the w/c lane coming out of "The Land" is particularly bad for this. Every time I head down the hill in it somebody seems to step right in front of me (without looking) at the gap in the middle. I consider it a miracle that I have yet to have a major collision.

 

[hematite153]

I have no trouble with waiting in a line with everyone else to get on the ride as long as I don't have to stand.
...And people were cutting in front of me every 2-3 minutes, sometimes 6-8 people in a row. Well every time someone does that, I have to stop the chair and that causes the people behind me to have to stop and then they complain about me being so slow. I’m slow because I’m trying hard not to hit you when you come around me and step directly in front of me.

Watch out for the queue lines. I find that unless I am willing to physically block them people think that it is acceptable to dart around my DW and I when I am pushing her in the w/c and we do not move the instant the person in front of us moves an inch. It is difficult to strike a balance between staying far enough back from the people in front of you and being close enough for the people behind you not to complain.

Sorry--I think I'm in a bad mood. I have appreciated all of the people who have spoken out on behalf of those with invisible disabilities. However, the constant need to defend one-self against people who should know better is wearing. The child in the wheelchair grows into the adult in the chair. In some cases a person's disability is such that in daily life they can manage it well enough to be nearly invisible. However, enjoying disney often conflicts with simple management techniques such as, driving (even when the destination is close), or avoiding physical endurance tasks. So, rented w/cs and ecvs allow everyone to participate and can be another form of disability management. Argh! Thank you again to all who understand this.

 

[appleorchard]

For some reason, that's the one that sticks in my mind too. Maybe because, despite the big wheelchair symbols drawn on it, people were using it as a shortcut to avoid the "walking" path which was full of , of all things,walkers! And then they'd look at us like we were in their way--on the handicapped ramp!

 

[minkydog]

My family will be going to WDW Jan2, with my 11yo in his w/c and me & DH sharing an ECV(oh, the horror ) If I could figure out a way for us to use TWO ecvs while pushing son's w/c , we would. DH has an invisible disability, stage 4 lung disease. His stamina is profoundly affected. I broke my leg at Thanksgiving and will likely be in a walking cast. THerefore we will take turns walking and riding and resting and pushing a w/c . I'm prepared to get "the look"--I've already gotten it a time or two in the grocery store when I used their ECV.

And oh yes--I'm obese. Does that mean I shouldn't enjoy myself? (note to self--look properly apologetic for being over-weight in front of strangers as i ride my ECV through the parks )

 

[Fore2213]

I am not bothered by the scooters in the parks at all....i just walk right around them. My biggest problem is this.....i was there for 6 days last week. I took 14 bus trips to and from various places in WDW. We had to wait for scooters to be loaded on 12.....yes 12 of these trips. I think Disney should have conversion vans in the travel loops to facilitate these scooters. I took note of several load times and one inept driver took 14 minutes to complete this task. The person on this particular scooter got up and practially jumped into the bus (with his SIX other family members). People on this board may not say it, but people in line with me werent too happy. Disney has outstanding communitcation technology.....they can do this, if a person has a scooter, let front desk know (or someone at a park) that they are leaving, and radio ahead for a conversion van with a lift. There are clearly enough scooters where Disney could have vans constantly in the loop. Who wants to get out of Illuminations, be in line knowing there are 3 bus loads of people ahead of you, get the the front of the line and see a scooter pull up and have to wait another 10 minutes (if you are lucky) when there could be a scooter "pick up " spot just like the other bus stops. YES, i agree most people who use them need them, but too many others abuse the system. JMHO!!!!!

As far as seeing a lot more scooters, etc. I think that is just because they are a relatively new thing. I don't remember seeing them even 10 years ago at the parks but I could be wrong. The scooters are much more available and many of us can afford to buy our own now so I think that is why you notice them more. I usually am the only person on a scooter but I recently went to a large yearly Christmas craft event and there were about a dozen people on scooters and many with walkers and wheelchairs. I was surprised by this. I found myself coveting some of the fancier scooters than mine. LOL

Really though folks, we do have an aging population. We also have a society that feels entitled and if those of us who need assistance can get it and go enjoy some of the finer things in life, why should it bother you so much? Maybe that is a question you should be asking yourself.

 

[RNMOM]

Fore,

I totally agree with you. From the other side of the coin, I HATE to delay people boarding just for my scooter's loading. It is very embarrassing and intimidating to be trying to maneuver the dang thing and wait for it to be locked down and then have all those other folks less than happy.

I am a nurse so the last trip we stayed at the Dolphin. I didn't think I would like it but we loved it and since our favorite parks are MGM and Epcot, I didn't take transport, I scooted the walkways. DH took the boat and I beat him back from MGM. Maybe not as safe at night but I didn't encounter any problems.

A designated transport for scooters would be a great idea and would move the other people along much faster. If the bus were designed with "parking places" you just pull into and not have to parallel park, it would load much faster also.

Maybe we need to speak with a bus designer. Hmmmmmm

I appreciate your candor and your polite way of stating your opinion.

 

[hematite153]

In order to avoid holding people up when boarding the bus, my DW will usually get up and walk on while I carry the chair after her. (We can often do this faster than many people lift their strollers.) Yet, somehow this seems to draw more disgruntled looks from people who decide that we must be scamming the system in using the chair. It's difficult to balance the competing pressures from strangers. However, I will keep your comments in mind and error on the side of boarding quickly over defending our right to use the chair.

 

[Adi12982]

I am not bothered by the scooters in the parks at all....i just walk right around them. My biggest problem is this.....i was there for 6 days last week. I took 14 bus trips to and from various places in WDW. We had to wait for scooters to be loaded on 12.....yes 12 of these trips. I think Disney should have conversion vans in the travel loops to facilitate these scooters. I took note of several load times and one inept driver took 14 minutes to complete this task. The person on this particular scooter got up and practially jumped into the bus (with his SIX other family members). People on this board may not say it, but people in line with me werent too happy. Disney has outstanding communitcation technology.....they can do this, if a person has a scooter, let front desk know (or someone at a park) that they are leaving, and radio ahead for a conversion van with a lift. There are clearly enough scooters where Disney could have vans constantly in the loop. Who wants to get out of Illuminations, be in line knowing there are 3 bus loads of people ahead of you, get the the front of the line and see a scooter pull up and have to wait another 10 minutes (if you are lucky) when there could be a scooter "pick up " spot just like the other bus stops. YES, i agree most people who use them need them, but too many others abuse the system. JMHO!!!!!

The people in the wheelchair or scooters would like this too and may even have less wait (only so many wheelchairs fit on one bus). I think it is silly for people in line to get upset, I do not mean to offend you, but these people may not be able to walk and it is not their fault Disney doesn't remedy the situation. My brother is in a WC and cannot walk, at all, and he feels embarrassed when people have to wait. However, you can’t lift up a chair and tie it in with a full bus. Even if we are not with him we don't mind waiting for a person in a WC to get on, my kindness and patience just may make someone else’s trip better and sure makes mine better (no aggravation to deal with).

Another problem is that not all of the bus drivers seem to be trained in tying down the chairs - last time we were there my mom had to show the bus driver what to do!

I do, however, agree that some people abuse the system. . . but since we don’t know who does, you can’t really do anything about it. Plus it would be against ADA for Disney to ask for proof of disability.

 

[lovethattink]

Last weekend we saw possible signs of scooter abuse. There was a family of at least 8, all different ages, all using scooters rented from Disney. Instead of having their last name, they had "Epcot Brigade" on their scooters. They formed a huge line as they traveled around Epcot single file.

I do agree that there aren't enough courtesy wheelchairs in the parking lot, and it can be quite a walk from the handicap lot to the nearest mode of transportation. Last Sunday we were at MK and the people in front of us talked to the parking lot attendants. They were motioned to continue moving towards handicap parking, but after talking to the attendant, he parked them at the end of the row closest to the tram. They had a nice short walk to the tram. When I saw them going up the ramp of the monorail, their labored gait was obvious. I think they were very wise to ask to park where they did. It really was alot less walking for them.

 

[SueM in MN]

Last weekend we saw possible signs of scooter abuse. There was a family of at least 8, all different ages, all using scooters rented from Disney. Instead of having their last name, they had "Epcot Brigade" on their scooters. They formed a huge line as they traveled around Epcot single file.

It sounds like these people were curteous enough to ride single file and they probably had signs so people knew they were all together and would not 'break up' their group.

Multiple people (and preplanning enough to have a sign) doesn't necessarily mean possible scooter abuse.
On our gamily trip in March, we had a total of 5 people who could (and some should) have been using scooters/wheelchairs. My yougest DD, of course, was using her wheelchair. My FIL had very bad hips and knees and did rent an ECV from a number of parks. My MIL has bad feet and has used orthotics in her shoes for years; her doctor has told her to avoid walking long distances, but she doesn't feel she's 'bad' enough to use an ECV. One member of our party has very bad knees; he's only 40, but has had seceral knee surgeries and is preparing for knee surgery soon. He used an ECV rented from an outside company, but would not use it in the parks because of 'the looks', so he was in a great deal of pain many days. ANother member has had a foot injury and was in quite a bit of pain from her foot, but would not think to rent an ECV. So, if they all had ECVs, someone looking at us might have thought that many people in one party might be possible signs of abuse.

I think people need to understand that it is expensive to rent ECVs and that there is little 'advantage' to having an ECV or wheelchair, except having a place with you to sit down. Most of the people who use wheelchairs/ECVs regularly in the parks know that the wait most of the time is simila, so we don't understand why everyone thinks we have all these advantages that someone would want.

I do agree that there aren't enough courtesy wheelchairs in the parking lot, and it can be quite a walk from the handicap lot to the nearest mode of transportation. Last Sunday we were at MK and the people in front of us talked to the parking lot attendants. They were motioned to continue moving towards handicap parking, but after talking to the attendant, he parked them at the end of the row closest to the tram. They had a nice short walk to the tram. When I saw them going up the ramp of the monorail, their labored gait was obvious. I think they were very wise to ask to park where they did. It really was alot less walking for them.

agree.
Actually, the official WDW Guidebooks for Guests with Disabilities suggests exactly that if the guest is able to step up to get onto the tram. That will be a much shorter walk and save the handicapped parking spots for people who are traveling with wheelchairs/ECV or people who (for whatever reason) can't use the trams. They have no choice but to park in the handicapped parking because the trams are not accessible. So, it's a 'win-win' situation.

 

[kandeebunny]

Sometimes we can't see someone's handicap. Those who abuse the system also make my blood boil, especially as I push my brother around, whom we have to physically carry onto most rides (the one's I consider abusing the system are those that are sharing the chair, and saying whose turn is it to ride now. . . etc. I don't judge if I simply cannot see what is wrong, because I know better than that), BUT I have a feeling Karma may bite them in the behind one day. . . . It is a big lie to tell and it may come to haunt them one day, and even if it doesn't they told a big lie!

my mother and I do this. If we are both fairly well that morning, one will walk and the other will ride and we will switch through out the day. Mom has a heart condition that causes her not to have a lot of stamina and I have multipoe joint/bone issues. We can both walk for short times. My braces and meds are so expensive that we try to save where ever we can, so if one day we can save $40 by splitting an ECV that is big to us, that is 1/2 of one of my meds for the month! Though more often than not we are both in ECV's and both look perfectly healthy.

I refuse (though it has been reccomended) to get an ecv for everday use. I am 23, I do not want to. I already get people (strangers) in parking lots yelling at me for using MY handicapped parking placard (again don't want plates due to some days I can make that extra walk)

 

[lovethattink]

It sounds like these people were curteous enough to ride single file and they probably had signs so people knew they were all together and would not 'break up' their group.

.

I forgot to mention that a man about 40ish and a teenager, came sprinting from the bathroom by test track then mounted their skooters and caught up with the rest of their party.

 

[zumbergc]

I forgot to mention that a man about 40ish and a teenager, came sprinting from the bathroom by test track then mounted their skooters and caught up with the rest of their party.

But what you may not know could be one of the following situations.
Person with limited stamina, could have been taking a walking break for 10-15-30 minutes they are able to walk. They left before the people taking a bathroom break. When I take a walking break my husband gets on the scooter, so we can continue on our way touring the parks. If we were in a spot where there are lots of things to do, we can just park it.
But genearlly he takes a break and rides the scooter while I get out and walk for a short bit, to keep up the strength and muscle I do have in my legs.

You never know what a particular family's situation is, they could have beed cheating the system, then again maybe not.

 

[lovethattink]

the way the 2 sprinted (I mean, running faster than I possibly could, and I'm pretty able bodied) from the restroom to the scooters, I seriously doubt those 2 needed it. Of course it was not a very long distance from the bathroom to where their scooters were parked. But if agility was in question, I would think they would have walked instead of sprinting and dodging other guests. As for the rest of their party, I wouldn't doubt there were some who needed it.

But then, of course, there is a member of my family with a disability, who can run just fine, but has alot of trouble exiting the Peter Pan ride because of the high stepping. And is in pain after walking all day. So I guess I should know better than to judge solely on appearance.

 

[hematite153]

]But if agility was in question, I would think they would have walked instead of sprinting and dodging other guests....
But then, of course, there is a member of my family with a disability, who can run just fine, but has alot of trouble exiting the Peter Pan ride because of the high stepping. And is in pain after walking all day. So I guess I should know better than to judge solely on appearance.

Yes. Although I am lucky to still be able to push my DW (saving us the cost of ecvs), my own mobility issues are such that my muscles and tendons are happier after a long run than they are after walking and standing for the same length of time. There will likely come a time when I can run better than I can walk. (In fact, I was only 27 and was training for a half-marathon when my friends first started commenting on the jerkiness of my walking stride.) It sounds odd, but, if you work on the bioenergetics of your running stride, running can actually drive less force through the spinal column than walking.

I accept the argument that some people may use supports that they do not technically need. However, I hope that I never make judgements about strangers' needs.

 

[Starr W.]

As having a son with Autism, I know about unseen disablilties. But there was a long article in the Wall Street Journal this summer about scooters being not just for the disabled at WDW. People rent them so they can do the parks and not get "tired out" for partying in the evening. Unfortunately these people are renting them at the park and from local Orlando places that people who actually need one can't get one. That is what bothers me.

 

[daisey mae muggles]

Maybe medical documentation for need, just like for a parking permit is in order.